Yea, I am not saying you are wrong, I have just seen many of these cases, you wanna come in a pull the plug?
I would absolutely come do it after giving them time to say goodbye. Might even help them get over their denial.
Actually depending on how else she is supported, this is not actually accurate.As the article states, a brain dead person's heart will usually stop within 3 days of becoming brain dead. So on that alone the family has hope because it is now into the third or fourth week and the heart is still beating on its own. It's certainly an indicator of some brain stem activity.
If she is truly brain dead then she will die soon from heart failure, which is all that the mother is asking for. A brain dead person is not like someone in a coma or even in a vegetative state because in those cases the brain still regulates the body. We aren't talking about months on a respirator if she truly is brain dead.
How can you diagnosis brain death properly in a medically induced coma?
I'm not a doctor but I think they hook up electrodes to the patient's scalp and if the person is alive equipment can read brain waves even in a coma. If the person is dead no waves are emitted..I think.
Doctors are all profit motivated? They're all right?
Which ones - the ones that created this situation to begin with or the ones who created the methods by which life can be sustained artificially?
Doctors are humans - and can be wrong. No doubt, those incidences in which they are wrong are central to the family's thoughts and feelings, here. As is the fact that Doctors committed the child to the surgery and Doctors did the surgery . . . you know, it's a round Robin of Doctors this and Doctors that.
I usually get in trouble in this section but I'll give it another shot.
(CNN) -- A person who is brain dead may appear alive -- there may be a heartbeat, they may look like they're breathing, their skin may still be warm to the touch. But doctors say there is no life when brain activity ceases.
Why brain dead is really dead - CNN.com
I'm sure you've heard the story of the little girl from California who went in for minor tonsil surgery and due to complications was eventually declared "brain dead." A very sad event indeed but further complicating the tragedy is her parents don't seem to understand what brain dead means.
About 10 years ago a elderly family friend experienced a similar fate. A blood clot in his leg traveled through his body, lodged in his lungs and his wife found him passed out on the floor. He'd apparently gone about 20 minutes with no oxygen getting to his brain, was on a ventilator at the hospital and declared brain dead. He looked like he was sleeping and would even toss and turn a little but according to the doctors his brain had died and absent a miracle he could not regain consciousness. From a medical science perspective, respirators and feeding tubes only keep organs alive although the person is in all other respects deceased.
Its not a pleasant topic to discuss but Jahi McMath's passing, as tragic as it is, I think presents a teaching opportunity.
People who have been declared "brain dead" have come back to "brain alive" mode several times...
Besides, the government should stay out of this families business and let them do as they see fit with their daughter.
As I understand it, those were misdiagnosed patients. Of course, in acting upon a misdiagnosed brain death there's no correcting the mistake outside of a miracle.
I think the case in question isn't about "brain dead" or the family not understanding. There's going to be one hell of a lawsuit coming, and they need to keep the "evidence" around.
"She is doing very well,"
Here's a case of someone who did recover from being brain dead but as it turned out the original diagnosis was wrong and he was only in a coma, which is not the same thing.
Doctors told his family he would never recover and asked them to consider donating his organs before his life-support machine was turned off. Instead, Steven’s father enlisted the help of private GP Julia Piper to check his son again as doctors at University Hospital in Coventry, West Midlands, agreed to let a neurologist re-examine him. Remarkably, he detected faint brain waves indicating Steven had a slim chance of recovery and medics decided to attempt to bring him out of his coma.
'Miracle recovery' of teen declared brain dead by four doctors - Telegraph
Well sure, but the problem is that the argument of "brain dead is really dead" doesn't account for bad diagnosis. The fact that the diagnosis could be wrong means that a brain dead diagnosis shouldn't be treated as really dead.
Or in other words, brain dead isn't really dead because brain dead isn't even necessarily brain dead.
Here's a case of someone who did recover from being brain dead but as it turned out the original diagnosis was wrong and he was only in a coma, which is not the same thing.
Doctors told his family he would never recover and asked them to consider donating his organs before his life-support machine was turned off. Instead, Steven’s father enlisted the help of private GP Julia Piper to check his son again as doctors at University Hospital in Coventry, West Midlands, agreed to let a neurologist re-examine him. Remarkably, he detected faint brain waves indicating Steven had a slim chance of recovery and medics decided to attempt to bring him out of his coma.
'Miracle recovery' of teen declared brain dead by four doctors - Telegraph
You do what the mother in your article did: get a 2nd opinion. And a 3rd, if you want. As in the case of this young girl. There is a consensus among drs. that the girl's official diagnosis is "brain dead." Unlike in your article, where the young man was in a medically-induced coma from which the ONE DR. thought he would not be able to come back from. The 2nd dr disagreed, so they attempted to bring him back, which was successful (what kind of life he lives after suffering all that damage, I cannot say).
If three drs tell you that you have cancer, are you going to deny it and forego treatment? Or are you going to be darn sure that you have cancer? After all, just like with brain death, there are tests and graphs to show you what you have.
The parents of this girl have been in contact with several hospitals and doctors, who have reviewed the tests and records. All agree that the girl is brain dead, it seems.
There is a point at which hoping against hope that the care providers are wrong is folly. One way to test it: Tell the parents they will be responsible for the bill. We'd find out quickly just how firmly they are convinced there's a miracle coming down the road. My guess is that they'd pull the plug so fast, there wouldn't be time to write a news story about it beforehand.
Update on this:
Brain-dead Calif teen undergoes surgery
Yeah, she's doing great except for the whole being brain dead thing...:lamo
I saw a medical ethicist on CNN who was asked specifically about people who've recovered from brain death. His comment was that there has never been a single documented case of a brain dead person recovering. There have been cases of misdiagnoses as in the case you cite but none where someone who's brain has stopped functioning has recovered.
Once the brain stops working the person ceases to exist. All that's left is a shell. The heart may beat and there may be some movement but the person is gone and won't ever come back. I don't fault the parents. What parent wouldn't hold out a miracle? The people advising them are another matter.
Update on this:
Brain-dead Calif teen undergoes surgery
Yeah, she's doing great except for the whole being brain dead thing...:lamo
Poor choice of emoticons. What is funny about this story?
Also, on the "Brain Dead is Really Dead" front:
Hospital fined after "brain dead" woman that they were prepping for organ harvest wakes up
There is a point at which hoping against hope that the care providers are wrong is folly. One way to test it: Tell the parents they will be responsible for the bill. We'd find out quickly just how firmly they are convinced there's a miracle coming down the road. My guess is that they'd pull the plug so fast, there wouldn't be time to write a news story about it beforehand.
It's for this reason we shouldn't be too quick to pull the plug. At the same time, keeping someone who is brain dead on life support is a waste of time and resources, but I understand the emotional part of this issue. The parents are going to be smacked by reality sometime in the future, but in the mean time, it's their decision, and not to be disrespected.
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