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Why Australia should scratch the F-35 and fly Sukhois (1 Viewer)

Tovarish

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Russian pilot: "No F-35 can ever out-fly Sukhoi in knife fight."

The F-35 Lighting was the first choice of the Australian air force. But several thunderbolts have struck the stealth aircraft, including the arrival of new generation Sukhois that are skewing the odds against the Australians.
Australia and Russia – Similar requirements
Russian aircraft are designed to overcome a uniquely Russian problem – covering its vast air space with limited aircraft. The Australian landmass is 4000 km wide, and the F-35 just doesn’t have the legs to cover that distance. The Su-35 has an effective range of about 4,000 km compared with about 2,200 for the JSF. This means the JSF would require air-tanker support to operate both within and outside Australia’s boundaries.
Speed – Bullet train vs slowcoach
The Su-35 is a Mach 2.4 (nearly two and half times the speed of sound) aircraft while the F-35 is limited to Mach 1.6. According to Victor M. Chepkin, the first deputy general director of NPO Saturn, the new AL-41F engines will allow Russian jets to supercruise – fly at supersonic speed for long distances. By not having to switch their afterburners on, aircraft are able to save a lot of fuel. Translation – non-supercruising fighters such as the F-35 and F-18s will be at a huge disadvantage against the Sukhois.
Stealth – Holes in the cloak
So obsessed were the aircraft’s designers with stealth that they ignored or sacrificed fighter basics such as range, payload and speed. The thinking was stealth alone would be enough to keep the JSF ahead of the pack. However, even as the Americans were perfecting stealth tech, the Russians were developing new combat techniques against it. They are now experimenting with new radar that can pick out stealth planes.
Colonel of Aviation Grigoriy “Grisha” Medved, a former Russian fighter pilot, says the worst part of the F-35 is a very hot engine – 160 Celsius hotter than standard combat jet engine exhaust. “It makes a very bright star in the sky and a long jet plume,” he says in a study for Air Power Australia.
Russia has adapted technology developed for detecting ICBM launches, to air combat fighters, says Medved. This technology enables Russian fighter pilots to see a standard fighter at about 50 km; by 2017 it will allow them to see stealth fighters at about 150 km. Because such radars are passive, the enemy will have no idea they are being watched.
In a dogfight, Medved notes an Su-35 can salvo a pair of missiles. The first, an active-radar-homing one, will force the F-35 pilot to take evasive action, exposing his beam-on radar cross section and exhausts to another (heat-seeking) shot.
Plus, with its large internal fuel load, the Su-35 can perform multiple attacks, launching missiles, turning hard to evade and then re-engaging. That is, play “cat and mouse” with the Aussies. The Sukhoi’s much better inventory of BVR (beyond visual range) missiles can then finish the job. As Medved says, “Run in for kill with R-73 or guns. No (F-35) can ever out-fly Sukhoi in knife fight.”
And, the colonel adds, with the PAK-FA coming, the F-35 “best stay home unless escorted by bigger brother.”
Whether bigger brother can accompany the F-35 is doubtful. “The cancellation of the F-22 will make Sukhoi aircraft the most capable production fighter planes available,” says New Australia. “It also marks a historic shift in air-power from the United States to Russia and the countries that use Russian defence technology.” Why Australia should scratch the F-35 and fly Sukhois | Russia & India Report
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1. No denial that the SU-35 is a bad beast. That's why China is buying them to fill the gap until their own 5th Gen airframes finish coming on-line.

2. But the SU-35 isn't itself a 5th Gen aircraft. It is a 4+ Gen. F-35 is a 5th Gen aircraft; and the PAK-FA was developed to compete with it and the F-22.

The main problem with the F-35 is not the airframe, but the mission; they are trying to make that plane into a jack-of-all-trades.
 
1. No denial that the SU-35 is a bad beast. That's why China is buying them to fill the gap until their own 5th Gen airframes finish coming on-line.

2. But the SU-35 isn't itself a 5th Gen aircraft. It is a 4+ Gen. F-35 is a 5th Gen aircraft; and the PAK-FA was developed to compete with it and the F-22.

The main problem with the F-35 is not the airframe, but the mission; they are trying to make that plane into a jack-of-all-trades.

An article about that - Russian plane 4th generation is far superior, American plane 5th generation. In 2015, the Russian army will buy PAK FA - T50. (plane 5th generation (+ Air defense system S 500 and S 400)). And the air is completely Russian.
 
Good argument presented here. It seems the Sukhoi would be the better aircraft for the Australian mission.

US-Australian relations are old and well founded, and that's what drove the decision to buy F35, is my guess.
 
An article about that - Russian plane 4th generation is far superior, American plane 5th generation. In 2015, the Russian army will buy PAK FA - T50. (plane 5th generation (+ Air defense system S 500 and S 400)). And the air is completely Russian.

The PAK-FA is 5th Gen, agreed. Russian 4th Gen is not superior to American 5th Gen, that's why they separate the air frames by generation.
 
A major NATO, Western alliance oriented country is not going to start flying Russian planes for a variety of reasons not all of them political.
 
A major NATO, Western alliance oriented country is not going to start flying Russian planes for a variety of reasons not all of them political.

Ain't it funny how the North Atlantic now encompasses the entire globe? ;)
 
Ain't it funny how the North Atlantic now encompasses the entire globe? ;)

It's a positive development. The effort for decades has been how to create a networked global alliance of democracies. This includes Europe, the US, Canada, Australia, Japan, South Korea, etc etc.
 
It's a positive development. The effort for decades has been how to create a networked global alliance of democracies. This includes Europe, the US, Canada, Australia, Japan, South Korea, etc etc.

WTF ever happened to the UN? Or SEATO?
 
WTF ever happened to the UN? Or SEATO?

The UN by definition is not an exclusive alliance of democracies. SEATO was disbanded in 1977. Efforts to integrate Asian allies into these networks are being made and have been accelerated in the past few years.
 
The UN by definition is not an exclusive alliance of democracies. SEATO was disbanded in 1977. Efforts to integrate Asian allies into these networks are being made and have been accelerated in the past few years.

Democracies? Who are you talking about?

You might have missed it, but Jimmy Carter pointed out the many reasons why the US is no longer a functioning democracy, just a few weeks back.
 
Democracies? Who are you talking about?

You might have missed it, but Jimmy Carter pointed out the many reasons why the US is no longer a functioning democracy, just a few weeks back.

He is incorrect. Palpably so. It is however his right to be incorrect.
 
He is incorrect. Palpably so. It is however his right to be incorrect.

Kid yourself much?

Of course it depends upon how one defines "democracy", but if a definition is "control of the government by the governed", then Carter is right on, and it seems you might be kidding yourself in saying he is incorrect.
 
The main problem with the F-35 is not the airframe, but the mission; they are trying to make that plane into a jack-of-all-trades.

Just like the F-4 Phantom. It wasn't excellent at anything but was good at everything.
 
Just like the F-4 Phantom. It wasn't excellent at anything but was good at everything.

That's what they want. That, or they needed to keep funding for it, so they just kept adding missions to the airframe. I am suspicious of any pretty little fast mover who claims to be a replacement for the A-10.
 
It's a positive development. The effort for decades has been how to create a networked global alliance of democracies. This includes Europe, the US, Canada, Australia, Japan, South Korea, etc etc.

Gotta Pivot, Pivot :).
 
ANZUS people, ANZUS is why we're buying US planes. Nothing to ****ing do with NATO, UN, SEATO or whatever.
 
An article about that - Russian plane 4th generation is far superior, American plane 5th generation. In 2015, the Russian army will buy PAK FA - T50. (plane 5th generation (+ Air defense system S 500 and S 400)). And the air is completely Russian.
What a surprise.
 
Democracies? Who are you talking about?

You might have missed it, but Jimmy Carter pointed out the many reasons why the US is no longer a functioning democracy, just a few weeks back.

Well, at least the Russian guy likes you.
 

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