Why assault weapons should be illegal

[CRUE CAB]

Which is what I recommend. Either that, or take it to an experienced smith.

Or we can just run with the fact that very very few AR15s have been used in gun crimes in the US. And yes, it is a fact.

 

[Surtr]

Or we can just run with the fact that very very few AR15s have been used in gun crimes in the US. And yes, it is a fact.

I didn't say otherwise. I was having a sidebar chat about barrel installation. Criminals usually don't use anything larger than an illegally shortened long arm, because they can't be concealed easily, if at all.

 

[CRUE CAB]

I didn't say otherwise. I was having a sidebar chat about barrel installation. Criminals usually don't use anything larger than an illegally shortened long arm, because they can't be concealed easily, if at all.

I know, but since Newtown the AR is under fire and its not a fair treatment of the gun.

 

[Surtr]

I know, but since Newtown the AR is under fire and its not a fair treatment of the gun.

The same people vilified the Glock when it first hit the market, claiming that it's plastic components would somehow magically make it impervious to the same metal detectors that can find a tiny shard of shrapnel that got lodged in my shin in 96.

 

[TurtleDude]

The same people vilified the Glock when it first hit the market, claiming that it's plastic components would somehow magically make it impervious to the same metal detectors that can find a tiny shard of shrapnel that got lodged in my shin in 96.

dont forget the BS in Die Hard and other films when the script claimed the weapons would go right through metal detectors

 

[Surtr]

dont forget the BS in Die Hard and other films when the script claimed the weapons would go right through metal detectors

I never understood why people thought that. Like the steel parts magically became undetectable because of a plastic frame or receiver. It's stupid.

 

[TurtleDude]

I never understood why people thought that. Like the steel parts magically became undetectable because of a plastic frame or receiver. It's stupid.

hey, lots of people believe you can fire 600 rounds in a minute out of an "assault weapon"

 

[Surtr]

hey, lots of people believe you can fire 600 rounds in a minute out of an "assault weapon"

Sure, if by assault weapon they mean heavy machinegun.

 

[TurtleDude]

Sure, if by assault weapon they mean heavy machinegun.

yeah, you shoot an AR 16 that fast its gonna burn up

 

[Surtr]

yeah, you shoot an AR 16 that fast its gonna burn up

I don't think it can achieve that rate of fire to begin with. Even if it could, you'd have to beef up the barrel, reinforce the heat shields, and either make the upper thicker, or mill it out of steel.

 

[beerftw]

yeah, you shoot an AR 16 that fast its gonna burn up

actually the ar-15 and m-16 fired around 800 rounds per minute as full auto,hency why they stopped producing variants except for special forces,rifles were burning up,and those that werent,people were using 30 rounds to kill what one aimed shotcould do,the military determined that the semi auto was more effective than full auto for everything except suppressive fire.

 

[TurtleDude]

actually the ar-15 and m-16 fired around 800 rounds per minute as full auto,hency why they stopped producing variants except for special forces,rifles were burning up,and those that werent,people were using 30 rounds to kill what one aimed shotcould do,the military determined that the semi auto was more effective than full auto for everything except suppressive fire.

I suspect like I do you understand rate does not mean actual rounds achievable

for example a cheetah can run close to 60 MPH but a cheetah cannot possibly run 60 miles in an hour. that speed is sustainable only for a few hundred yards

so while an M 16 might have a cyclic rate of say 800 rounds per minute there is no way it can shoot 800 rounds in a minute even if you could rig it up with a 800 round belt.

the heat would destroy it long before that

 

[beerftw]

I suspect like I do you understand rate does not mean actual rounds achievable

for example a cheetah can run close to 60 MPH but a cheetah cannot possibly run 60 miles in an hour. that speed is sustainable only for a few hundred yards

so while an M 16 might have a cyclic rate of say 800 rounds per minute there is no way it can shoot 800 rounds in a minute even if you could rig it up with a 800 round belt.

the heat would destroy it long before that

800 rounds per minute is calculated off a belt fed operation,of course magazine fed could never achive that.

but the point was they did full auto with extreme fire rate,which is wy they removed it,imagine trying to shoot the enemy and one burst shot 10 rounds,3 burts you ave to reload,or if you were in vietnam 2 bursts,it was eventually realized to be a horrible waste of ammo that got soldiers killed.

newer ar varients are modified to fire slower,but are only issied to swat and special forces,no regular soldier would dare use full auto,as rounds are precious.

 

[Surtr]

800 rounds per minute is calculated off a belt fed operation,of course magazine fed could never achive that.

but the point was they did full auto with extreme fire rate,which is wy they removed it,imagine trying to shoot the enemy and one burst shot 10 rounds,3 burts you ave to reload,or if you were in vietnam 2 bursts,it was eventually realized to be a horrible waste of ammo that got soldiers killed.

newer ar varients are modified to fire slower,but are only issied to swat and special forces,no regular soldier would dare use full auto,as rounds are precious.

I don't think the fully automatic M-16 exists anymore. I've heard some M-4's are auto, but I haven't seen any. Frankly, I think burst is just as useless. The goal is controlled shots. Suppressing fire is for the 249 and 240.

 

[Texmex]

No one is going to "re-bore" a barrel when you can go on line and just buy another.
That type of machine work is still being done in only a handful of machine shops in the country.

You don't have to re-bore a barrel or even replace it. One good round file will do. If you make even very small changes to the grooves it will not be traceable to previously fired shells. You would also need to make small file marks on the firing pin and the extractor.

 

[TurtleDude]

I don't think the fully automatic M-16 exists anymore. I've heard some M-4's are auto, but I haven't seen any. Frankly, I think burst is just as useless. The goal is controlled shots. Suppressing fire is for the 249 and 240.

assault rifles in full auto once had a purpose-back in the siege of stalingrad days when LMGs were hard to find and the maxims (the main MG of the USSR) were heavy and hard to move in street fighting. nowadays you are absolutely right

the one place were a fully automatic rifle has a use is to break contact in an close quarters ambush such as in a building search etc

 

[beerftw]

I don't think the fully automatic M-16 exists anymore. I've heard some M-4's are auto, but I haven't seen any. Frankly, I think burst is just as useless. The goal is controlled shots. Suppressing fire is for the 249 and 240.

m16 a-3 is fully auto,and used by us special forces and israeli troops,while the a-2 and a-4 are semi auto,the a-4 also used by israeli troops,while the a-1 was discontinued in the 80's for everything but training for new soldiers.

 

[Kal'Stang]

You don't have to re-bore a barrel or even replace it. One good round file will do. If you make even very small changes to the grooves it will not be traceable to previously fired shells. You would also need to make small file marks on the firing pin and the extractor.

That's what I was thinking when I said "re-bore". Perhaps I used the wrong term. :shrug: I'm no gun expert. But I do have common sense. If there's a reason that a simple round file wouldn't work to obliterate the markings then I'd be happy to defer to those that know guns better than I.

 

[Surtr]

m16 a-3 is fully auto,and used by us special forces and israeli troops,while the a-2 and a-4 are semi auto,the a-4 also used by israeli troops,while the a-1 was discontinued in the 80's for everything but training for new soldiers.

I had the A4 in New Mexico then. Whoever thought of putting aluminum foregrips on that rifle should be shot. Melted my good gloves.

 

[Texmex]

That's what I was thinking when I said "re-bore". Perhaps I used the wrong term. :shrug: I'm no gun expert. But I do have common sense. If there's a reason that a simple round file wouldn't work to obliterate the markings then I'd be happy to defer to those that know guns better than I.

It's not guns so much as it is metal. I was a machinist for over 40 years.

 

[OpportunityCost]

LOL what sort of libertarian calls for gun restrictions? Isnt that the opposite of libertarian?

 

[CRUE CAB]

actually the ar-15 and m-16 fired around 800 rounds per minute as full auto,hency why they stopped producing variants except for special forces,rifles were burning up,and those that werent,people were using 30 rounds to kill what one aimed shotcould do,the military determined that the semi auto was more effective than full auto for everything except suppressive fire.

Well that is why the 3 round bust switch is offered on military contract M16s and M4s.

 

[CRUE CAB]

You don't have to re-bore a barrel or even replace it. One good round file will do. If you make even very small changes to the grooves it will not be traceable to previously fired shells. You would also need to make small file marks on the firing pin and the extractor.

Problem with all that is, for one thing I would never take a file to me gun in that manner and two if you do fire it in a crime. Are you going to start picking up brass? Casings can be used to trace a gun just as well as a bullet.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

You don't have to re-bore a barrel or even replace it. One good round file will do. If you make even very small changes to the grooves it will not be traceable to previously fired shells. You would also need to make small file marks on the firing pin and the extractor.

Problem with all that is, for one thing I would never take a file to me gun in that manner and two if you do fire it in a crime. Are you going to start picking up brass? Casings can be used to trace a gun just as well as a bullet.

He covered that. The filing on the firing pin and extractor is so that the gun doesn't match the spent brass, just as the filing of the bore is so that the gun doesn't match the bullets.

 

[CRUE CAB]

He covered that. The filing on the firing pin and extractor is so that the gun doesn't match the spent brass, just as the filing of the bore is so that the gun doesn't match the bullets.

Filing the firing pin, extractor, and or barrel can cause the weapon to not function properly.
May as well cut the upper to pieces with a torch.
Plus, I dont know to many real criminals that know how to detail strip a receiver of an AR.
And its also the chamber that the brass slides into and expands in side of that most forensics are matched to.