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Why Aren't Hillary Clinton and Michele Bachmann Speaking Out

MildSteel

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This goes to prove that politicians care more about money and power than principles. How come you don't here Hillary Clinton and Michele Bachmann speaking out about the way these women are being treated?

The confinement of four Saudi princesses is a reminder that the Gulf states are evil empires, especially if you are a woman - Comment - Voices - The Independent

The confinement of four Saudi princesses is a reminder that the Gulf states are evil empires, especially if you are a woman

In the country where Islam’s most precious shrine is located, there is no equality, no dignity, no basic humanity extended to daughters, sisters, or mothers

A story appeared this weekend which has really shaken me up. It was about four Arab princesses – Sahar, 42, Jawaher, 38, Maha, 41, and Hala, 39 – daughters of the ailing King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, who have, allegedly, been held under palace arrest, for 13 years. He has given his sons control over the captives. They are allowed no visitors or staff. Two are held in one gilded, echoing cage, the other two in another. Their mother Alanoud Alfayez, 57, lives in London and has been trying all these years to free her daughters who are unmarried, childless and fading away. Hala has serious mental problems. Two of the sisters contacted the British-Lebanese Sunday Times writer, Hala Jaber, via email and she wrote about their cruel incarceration. Jaber is an inspiring award-winning investigative journalist. I am in awe of her, more so now than ever before.
Goes to show money and power trump everything with politicians.
 

a351

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There are millions and millions of individual women who have been or continue to be abused in the region and worldwide. That they have not commented on this particular instance doesn't prove much of anything. Clinton in particular went out of her way to promote equal rights for women in the region during her tenure as Secretary of State.
 

Goshin

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First I've heard of it. Even though I'm no fan of either, maybe they haven't heard too.

Then again, Hillary was State Dept, so she SHOULD have...
 

MildSteel

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There are millions and millions of individual women who have been or continue to be abused in the region and worldwide. That they have not commented on this particular instance doesn't prove much of anything. Clinton in particular went out of her way to promote equal rights for women in the region during her tenure as Secretary of State.
I think it demonstrates quite a bit. King Abdullah is the head of state of a major power in the Middle East and a major US ally that has received billions of dollars in US aid. If Putin were keeping his daughters in such a fashion Hillary Clinton would be in a rage.

In my opinion, they are not saying anything because of the crucial role Saudi Arabia plays in providing stability to oil prices.

Bottom line, money rules.
 

Deuce

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First I've heard of it. Even though I'm no fan of either, maybe they haven't heard too.

Then again, Hillary was State Dept, so she SHOULD have...
Since it's the first any of us have heard about it, perhaps we shouldn't start the whining about who has or has not said enough juuuust yet.
 

reinoe

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Since it's the first any of us have heard about it, perhaps we shouldn't start the whining about who has or has not said enough juuuust yet.
Yes. And before we even start whining about who has or has not said enough about the issue shouldn't we first determine who cares? And after we determine who cares we should focus on is it any of our business into how arab royalty is treated?
 

Grant

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Yes. And before we even start whining about who has or has not said enough about the issue shouldn't we first determine who cares? And after we determine who cares we should focus on is it any of our business into how arab royalty is treated?
It should be a concern how all people are treated, royalty or not.
 

MildSteel

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It should be a concern how all people are treated, royalty or not.
Hmmm. That was a breath of fresh air.

Right on mark!!!!!
 

nota bene

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This goes to prove that politicians care more about money and power than principles. How come you don't here Hillary Clinton and Michele Bachmann speaking out about the way these women are being treated?

The confinement of four Saudi princesses is a reminder that the Gulf states are evil empires, especially if you are a woman - Comment - Voices - The Independent



Goes to show money and power trump everything with politicians.
That's rather a rush to judgment. But do you think that female politicians have a special responsibility to speak out on women's rights? Shouldn't male politicians, including our President, be speaking out?
 

MildSteel

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Since it's the first any of us have heard about it, perhaps we shouldn't start the whining about who has or has not said enough juuuust yet.
In case you missed it, here's the last "whining" paragraph of that article

Economic and resource dependency have made our politicians cowardly. They say nothing about these violations or the Saudi takeover of Islam in Britain. Please, let some of them speak up for these four sisters before they too float off to paradise.
Economic and resource dependency have make our politicians cowardly. That's the point I was making. But that's "whining" to you. Sorry state our political system is in.

Here's another "whining" article on that issue

Prisoners at the palace: Saudi princesses plead for help as they claim they are being held by the king against their will | Mail Online

Prisoners at the palace: Saudi princesses plead for help as they claim they are being held by the king against their will

Two daughters of the King of Saudi Arabia claim they and their sisters have been held prisoner in the royal palace for 13 years.
Princesses Sahar, 42, and Jawaher, 38, said that they are being kept against their will in a guarded villa in the royal compound in Jeddah.
Their claims shed light into the usually secret world of royal family of a country where women are effectively treated as second-class citizens.
Saudi Arabia is the only country in the world that prohibits women from driving. It scored 130th out of 134 countries analysed by the World Economic forum in a 2009 report on gender parity.
But the restrictions allegedly placed on Sahar and Jawaher go well beyond what is allowed under Saudi law.
In emails and phonecalls to a Sunday newspaper, Sahar and Jawaher claimed that their sisters Hala, 39, and Maha, 41, are also being held, incommunicado, in separate villas in the Jeddah compound.
Their mother Alanoud Alfayez, who is divorced from Saudi King Abdullah, has reportedly written to the UN's human rights agency to intervene on their behalf.
She told the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) that her daughters are 'imprisoned, held against their will, cut off from the world', according to a report in The Sunday Times.
Wow! Told the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights. I bet if that was Vladamir Putin's daughters you would have heard plenty from Hillary by now.
 
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MaggieD

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This goes to prove that politicians care more about money and power than principles. How come you don't here Hillary Clinton and Michele Bachmann speaking out about the way these women are being treated?

The confinement of four Saudi princesses is a reminder that the Gulf states are evil empires, especially if you are a woman - Comment - Voices - The Independent

Goes to show money and power trump everything with politicians.
You've got it wrong. What it proves is that oil trumps human rights.

Under the discriminatory Saudi guardianship system, girls and women are forbidden from traveling, conducting official business, or undergoing certain medical procedures without permission from their male guardians. In July, after a car chase by religious police left the driver dead and his wife and daughter in critical condition, King Fahd hospital in Baha postponed amputating the wife’s hand because she had no male legal guardian to authorize the procedure, Okaz newspaper reported.

In July 2012, the Ministry of Labor issued four decrees regulating women’s work in clothing stores, amusement parks, food preparation, and as cashiers, for which guardian permission was no longer required. However, the decrees reinforced strict sex segregation in the workplace, mandating that female workers not interact with men. Women remain barred from certain professions. On October 8, Al-Watan newspaper published a directive from the Ministry of Justice that approved granting Saudi female lawyers the right to obtain practice licenses. Prior to the announcement, women who graduated from law schools were allowed to work as consultants but could not officially represent clients in court. The new directive will apply to all women who have a law degree and at least three years of experience.

At the London 2012 summer Olympic Games, Saudi women for the first time participated in an official sporting event: Sarah Attar competed in the 800 meters, and Wujdan Shahrkhani in judo. Women and girls remain effectively banned from sports within the kingdom.

Women remain banned from driving. In November 2011, lawyer Abd al-Rahman al-Lahim sued the traffic department on behalf of Manal al-Sharif, who led a women’s driving protest in May 2011, for gender discrimination after the department refused to issue her a driving license. The case remained pending at this writing.

Strict clothing requirements for women were publicly enforced. In July, the Mecca public prosecution department detained three women for taking off their full-body cloaks and headscarves in a shopping mall, sabq.org news website reported.

Al-Sharq al-Awsat newspaper in March reported that the first women-staffed police stations had opened in Jeddah and Riyadh in order to facilitate women’s access to police. However, punishment for domestic violence remained lax. The government failed to enact a 2011 draft law to combat violence against women and children. In May, Jeddah’s Summary Court convicted a man for physically abusing his wife to the point of hospitalization, but sentenced him to learning by heart five parts of the Quran and 100 sayings of the Prophet Muhammad.
 

MildSteel

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That's rather a rush to judgment. But do you think that female politicians have a special responsibility to speak out on women's rights? Shouldn't male politicians, including our President, be speaking out?
Why is it a rush to judgement? It's been a feature of US foreign policy for years to demonize so called enemies for activities that so called allies engage in that we turn a blind eye to. So no it's not a rush to judgement.

And yes, Obama should be speaking out. Everyone in the Congress should be speaking out as well, male and female. But I haven't heard not one peep yet and don't expect to. Why? Because it's Saudi Arabia, and we turn a blind eye to their atrocities because we need the oil and need them to buy that US debt. That's why.
 

MildSteel

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You've got it wrong. What it proves is that oil trumps human rights.
That article proves my point. I didn't get it wrong, because the oil is used to obtain money and the money is used to obtain power.

That was a good article.
 

Deuce

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In case you missed it, here's the last "whining" paragraph of that article



Economic and resource dependency have make our politicians cowardly. That's the point I was making. But that's "whining" to you. Sorry state our political system is in.

Here's another "whining" article on that issue

Prisoners at the palace: Saudi princesses plead for help as they claim they are being held by the king against their will | Mail Online



Wow! Told the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights. I bet if that was Vladamir Putin's daughters you would have heard plenty from Hillary by now.
When your argument revolves around hypothetical hypocrisy, it's a weak argument.

When you're using the Daily Mail, it's worse.
 

Manc Skipper

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Why is it a rush to judgement? It's been a feature of US foreign policy for years to demonize so called enemies for activities that so called allies engage in that we turn a blind eye to. So no it's not a rush to judgement.

And yes, Obama should be speaking out. Everyone in the Congress should be speaking out as well, male and female. But I haven't heard not one peep yet and don't expect to. Why? Because it's Saudi Arabia, and we turn a blind eye to their atrocities because we need the oil and need them to buy that US debt. That's why.
You admit that male politicians should speak out too, then return to your misogynistic attack on female ones. OK
 

Grant

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When your argument revolves around hypothetical hypocrisy, it's a weak argument.

When you're using the Daily Mail, it's worse.
Are you saying the article is false? There are dozens of news items on the subject from varying sources! Just Google.
 

reinoe

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It should be a concern how all people are treated, royalty or not.
So then you're going to campaign for better treatment of prisoners, yes?
 

Mason66

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This goes to prove that politicians care more about money and power than principles. How come you don't here Hillary Clinton and Michele Bachmann speaking out about the way these women are being treated?

The confinement of four Saudi princesses is a reminder that the Gulf states are evil empires, especially if you are a woman - Comment - Voices - The Independent



Goes to show money and power trump everything with politicians.
Why did you limit the Op to just those 2 women?

Aren't there more women in the government that should speak out first?

I mean Hillary Clinton is a private citizen and she is not obligated to speak out on anything.
 

Grant

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Why did you limit the Op to just those 2 women?

Aren't there more women in the government that should speak out first?

I mean Hillary Clinton is a private citizen and she is not obligated to speak out on anything.
Let's hope she remains a private citizen.
 

LadyMoonlight

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Whoa, now wait just a minute. I thought (well, no, I didn't because I know better), that all cultures/religions were equal. If you are mentioning the word misogyny regarding actions in another culture/religion, then you are making a value judgement. You are automatically saying that your culture is better and I thought that was a no-no in a politically correct world. I also thought, due to the not-so-wonderful world of political correctness, that other cultures are supposed to be fascinating and should be embraced and accepted for their differences. Do you people only want a world where people think, believe and act like Americans?? No, no, no.....that's just so judgemental and arrogant. After all, as I said, other cultures are just awesome, aren't they?

Oh, and since when did Western feminists care about anything other than Western feminists?
 

MildSteel

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When your argument revolves around hypothetical hypocrisy, it's a weak argument.
If you take the position that the hypocrisy is hypothetical, then you must concede that your allegation is hypothetical since you don't know whether or not the allegation is indeed true. Furthermore, when taken in the context of the fact that it is well known that Saudi Arabia has engaged in significant violations of the human rights of women for years while the United States has turned a blind eye, the argument is not weak at all. The thing is this, the Democratic party establishment says that they stand for the concept of freedom for all, but I have noticed that when the prerogatives of others conflict with there values, they become guilty of the same intolerance that they accuse others of. Not only that but they tend to speak out only when it is politically expedient and are silent otherwise. In the case of Saudi Arabia, they don't appear to be as aggressive in pursuing the values of human rights and democracy as they are in Russia. Why aren't there NGOs in Saudi Arabia promoting the establishment of democracy and the abolishment of a tyrannical monarchy?

When you're using the Daily Mail, it's worse.
So are you disputing the truth of the allegation? Here's another source:

Set us free, plead Saudi princesses | The Sunday Times

But I guess that's politics. Something is wrong only when your political enemies do it.
 
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