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Why are Unions considered Anti-Capitalistic?

MrVicchio said:
I live in TEXAS, we don't have much "Union" infection, and guess what, we're doing so much better then "union states".
With one of the highest poverty rates.

Ahh, the once proud Republic of Texas, known and envied throughout the world for it's 'largeness'. Sadly now ranked alongside Alabama and Mississippi with such stats as poverty and education.

The company I worked for used non-union labor for the routine, everyday, mundane work. You never knew what you were going to get. The contractor that supplied them didn't care, he just needed bodies to fill the job. When we complained, he'd just fire that person and get another body. It may have been an improvement, it may not. It was a crap shoot.


But when we needed highly skilled craftsmen, we hired union. No ifs, ands or buts, we got the most skilled, the best trained, every time. There was never a doubt about skill and qualification levels when you hired union labor.
 
MrVicchio said:
Why do you think GM, Ford, Chrysler have had such hard times? Because of UNIONS.


Toyota, Honda, Suzuki and other non-union car companies all had similar problems. What did they have in common? Management. Why aren't you complaining that management was the problem?






Yes, I know of the other problems. Just asking why the finger from the right always points to labor rather than management.
 
With one of the highest poverty rates.

Ahh, the once proud Republic of Texas, known and envied throughout the world for it's 'largeness'. Sadly now ranked alongside Alabama and Mississippi with such stats as poverty and education.

The company I worked for used non-union labor for the routine, everyday, mundane work. You never knew what you were going to get. The contractor that supplied them didn't care, he just needed bodies to fill the job. When we complained, he'd just fire that person and get another body. It may have been an improvement, it may not. It was a crap shoot.


But when we needed highly skilled craftsmen, we hired union. No ifs, ands or buts, we got the most skilled, the best trained, every time. There was never a doubt about skill and qualification levels when you hired union labor.

LOL, you spout without wisdom.

For the second year in a row, Texas' five major metropolitan areas nailed down half the top 10 spots in an annual ranking of the best cities to find a job.
"If you look at all the regions, nothing else does as well as Texas," said Michael Shires, a professor at the Pepperdine University School of Public Policy in Malibu, Calif., who compiled the rankings with Joel Kotkin, a distinguished presidential fellow in urban futures at Chapman University in Orange, Calif. The report was published Wednesday by Newgeography.com.
Austin-Round Rock-San Marcos once again led the list of large cities. Rounding out the Texas quintet are San Antonio-New Braunfels (No. 2), Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown (No. 3), Dallas-Plano-Irving (No. 5) and Fort Worth-Arlington (No. 7).
On the list for medium-sized cities were El Paso (No. 5), McAllen-Mission-Edinburg (No. 6) and Corpus Christi (No.7). Among the top small cities were College Station-Bryan (No. 3) and Killeen-Temple-Fort Hood (No. 4).
"During volatile times, places with broad-based growth strategies -- like Texas and Utah -- do best," Shires wrote in an article accompanying the rankings, "Finding the Good in This Bad Time."
"Cities that are heavily dependent on a narrow set of industries leave themselves vulnerable, paying back the gains of good years in poor years.


Read more: Texas dominates rankings for best cities for jobs | News | News from Fort Worth, Dallas,...
 
Children in poverty (Percent) – 2008

Alabama......22%
Mississippi....30%

TEXAS........23%

Children in poverty - Data Across States - KIDS COUNT Data Center


People living in poverty, ranked by state:

Alabama......10
Mississippi.....1

TEXAS.........9

How the individual states fared - USATODAY.com


Percent of total population in poverty, 2008

Alabama......15.9%
Mississippi....20.8%

TEXAS........15.8%

ERS/USDA Data - County-Level Poverty Rates


Ranked by high school attainment, age 25 and over

Alabama......46
Mississippi....50

TEXAS........51

Interactive: State of Metropolitan America Indicator Map - Brookings Institution - State of Metropolitan America - Brookings Institution
 
True but even then the labor has been bought and is paid for.
Not true with the end product.
It depends on the good or service being offered. Cars are not bought when they are manufactured, but ships and boats are, hotel room are paid for as they are used. A car however still belongs to the company as an asset until it is sold

That's true but as long as they're under the labor contract, those scabs will eventually have to become union members as well.

I'm not against union, as long as they don't retain a monopoly on labor with a business and people are not forced to join.

Key words Under the labour contract.

When the contract expires the company can lock out the workers. Hire new non union workers and never hire the union members back
 
Children in poverty (Percent) – 2008

Alabama......22%
Mississippi....30%

TEXAS........23%

Children in poverty - Data Across States - KIDS COUNT Data Center


People living in poverty, ranked by state:

Alabama......10
Mississippi.....1

TEXAS.........9

How the individual states fared - USATODAY.com


Percent of total population in poverty, 2008

Alabama......15.9%
Mississippi....20.8%

TEXAS........15.8%

ERS/USDA Data - County-Level Poverty Rates


Ranked by high school attainment, age 25 and over

Alabama......46
Mississippi....50

TEXAS........51

Interactive: State of Metropolitan America Indicator Map - Brookings Institution - State of Metropolitan America - Brookings Institution

One word,

Mexico.
 
When all else fails blame a minority!
 
When all else fails blame a minority!

Ah yes, the "Race Card", to try and save the silly "Texas is Poor LOL" Tripe you and your bud have been pushing when faced with the simple reality that Texas has a lot of illegal and first gen immigrants from Mexico, many of whom tend to be VERY POOR.

Think that might just lower the stats a tad? NAH, you aren't ALLOWED to consider that... it means... you might think... something that might be seen as racist somewhere!!!
 
Why are unions considered anti-capitalistic or socialistic? I've never understood that, or the reasoning behind it. Unions are workers controlling their collective capital - i.e. their labor. Why do conservatives consider this socialistic?

You are asking two different things here:
1) Why are unions considered anti-capitalistic?
2) Why are unions considered socialistic?

Here are more involved answers than what you've gotten.

To the first question:
Strictly speaking, unions are indeed anti-capitalistic. After all, what is the point of a capitalist society? To produce profit for the investors in a business. In order to do this, capitalists try to run their businesses in such a way as to maximize profit while minimizing costs.

Such cost minimizing includes not paying for safe working conditions or for pursuing work practices considered unethical according to today's standards. For instance, before child labor laws mining companies would hire small children to crawl through small tunnels to mine because adults were too large to crawl through the small tunnels. Why did the company make small tunnels? Because the smaller tunnels were cheaper to make than larger ones. This is why small children got work, and died in cave-ins from those tunnels.

So when unions use collective bargaining to make demands of a business, those demands cut into the profits of that company. But remember what a company uses it's profits for. Every dollar that is spent on union demands is one dollar that can't be spent on research, development, supplies, and other costs. That means the company must either reduce it's budget for these things or they must increase the price of their product. If the price goes up too high, nobody will buy the product and the union has forced the company out of business.

That's the explanation for that question.

To the second question:
Here's what it boils down to:

Socialism is control of resources via the state, which should be democratically decided. By having a democracy decide the allocation of resources, those resources can be used to provide for a good lifestyle for the greatest number of people. Thus, socialism can lead to an egalitarian society for the good of the most people.

So remember - socialism is state control of resources by the majority of people via the state or government. This is opposed to capitalism which is private control of resources by owners and investors via businesses and corporations.

So when governments make laws recognizing unions to have the power of collective bargaining, it leads to a larger number of people dictating how resources derived from the business are allocated.

So when it comes to safety standards, the union is allowed to bargain with the business to get the business to pay for those safe working conditions. It is not the business itself that chooses to pay but rather the union bargaining to get the business to pay and is able to do so via state recognition of the power of unions.

So the reason why it is socialistic is because workers can use laws written by the government that recognize and empower unions to force private businesses to spend money (which is a value of resources) on things that the private business cannot choose to spend it on.

That's basically it, as far as I understand it.
 
That's basically it, as far as I understand it.

You understand it very wrong then. You believe that Capitalism is Exploitation of the Workers by Business. Do... work in the Private Sector by chance? I'm thinking you don't, nor have you ever.
 
Well, consider that the majority of union membership (in the U.S. anyways) is in public-sector unions... meaning they are negotiating not with people using their own money, but with people using taxpayer money.
 
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