Why Are Liberals So Rude to the Right?

[cpwill]

Fair enough.

Anyone can prove anything with anecdotal evidence, I've found.

For the most part, anything one side is guilty of, you can find just as many of them on the other side in spades. Such is life on the internet, which has given millions of assholes a soapbox.

I have a theory which has been running 'round in the back of my head for a bit, that the specific sins that we tend to accuse each other of are often just projection.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I am simply asking if you have checked your observations against fairly important contextual notes. I agree you aren't extrapolating here.

That is because you instead extrapolated here:





So... given the above, do you?

Absolutely. My comments in the first post were about my experiences HERE AT DP. I've posted them many times.

 

[Kobie]

I have a theory which has been running 'round in the back of my head for a bit, that the specific sins that we tend to accuse each other of are often just projection.

That ain't a new theory man. But at least you can approach the subject rationally as a conservative and with a sense of self-awareness. Far too many people here seem to have a sense of self-righteousness about their "lean" that is fully unwarranted.

 

[X Factor]

I've posted PLENTY of times what I think of both sides. The right is more likely to be mean and nasty. The left is more likely to be manipulative and weasel-like. This has been my experience here at DP. My experience in RL is quite different. In my workplace, most of the people with whom I interact are left wingers. In my outside of work activities, most of the people with whom I interact are right wingers. The latter are certainly nastier, more racist, and more closed-minded. This is my experience. YMMV.

Oh, and the comments in your second sentence of post #138 were pure nonsense as a rhetorical question. THAT'S how you were "doing it again". If I need to, I'll just keep pointing it out until you stop. It's been nearly 3 years, now. Let's see when that might happen.

Are you saying this is true of the majority of conservatives you know? I knew you thought we were meaner, I just honestly did not know you thought we more racist. I admit, I feel a little bummed about that but you're as entitled to think that as anyone else.

 

[cpwill]

That ain't a new theory man. But at least you can approach the subject rationally as a conservative and with a sense of self-awareness. Far too many people here seem to have a sense of self-righteousness about their "lean" that is fully unwarranted.

True story. You aren't justified or righteous simply because you hold intelligent, conservative opinions - you just happen to be correct. Knowing that reducing the size and scope of government is good domestic policy doesn't make you any better of a person than knowing that 2+2=4 does.

See what I did there? :-D :-D :-D

 

[cpwill]

Absolutely. My comments in the first post were about my experiences HERE AT DP. I've posted them many times.

You are self contradicting. Either you think that:

The right is more likely to be mean and nasty. The left is more likely to be manipulative and weasel-like.

Or you think that

Anyone trying to paint one group as being ACTUALLY defined by those qualities doesn't know what they are talking about.

Which means that you cannot preface

The right is more likely to be mean and nasty. The left is more likely to be manipulative and weasel-like.

with

I've posted PLENTY of times what I think of both sides.

thereby stating

The right is more likely to be mean and nasty. The left is more likely to be manipulative and weasel-like.

as your belief.






You could have prefaced with

This has been my experience here at DP.

instead, and then that would have fulfilled the requirements of

Anyone trying to paint one group as being ACTUALLY defined by those qualities doesn't know what they are talking about.

but you didn't.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Are you saying this is true of the majority of conservatives you know? I knew you thought we were meaner, I just honestly did not know you thought we more racist. I admit, I feel a little bummed about that but you're as entitled to think that as anyone else.

No. MORE conservatives than liberals that I know are racist. I do not believe that this constitutes the majority of conservatives I know, though I haven't really asked them.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

You are self contradicting. Either you think that:



Or you think that



Which means that you cannot preface



with



thereby stating



as your belief.






You could have prefaced with



instead, and then that would have fulfilled the requirements of



but you didn't.

I've posted it MANY times in relation to my experience here at DP. If you want to play "gotcha" you're gonna fail.

 

[cpwill]

I've posted it MANY times in relation to my experience here at DP. If you want to play "gotcha" you're gonna fail.

I'm sure you have. I also find it fairly plausible you believe it. I also find it somewhat plausible that you might not see this as a barrier to casting aspersions on others who express similar opinions.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I'm sure you have. I also find it fairly plausible you believe it. I also find it somewhat plausible that you might not see this as a barrier to casting aspersions on others who express similar opinions.

I have been debating over whether I have time to test my theory. It's a theory I've been professing for the past 7 years here, and one, from my observation is accurate. As one who goes after both conservatives and liberals, I believe that my perceptions are on target Also, a member once attempted to discover this by posting as each ideology to see the responses he got. He confirmed my theory. I am working on figuring out exactly how to measure this theory.

 

[cpwill]

I have been debating over whether I have time to test my theory. It's a theory I've been professing for the past 7 years here, and one, from my observation is accurate. As one who goes after both conservatives and liberals, I believe that my perceptions are on target Also, a member once attempted to discover this by posting as each ideology to see the responses he got. He confirmed my theory. I am working on figuring out exactly how to measure this theory.

Huh. It's an interesting experiment, to be sure. But at least it would be research in the wild, as opposed to research in controlled environments based off of the actions of strictly-college-sophomores. Isnt' there a way to measure the emotional content of language?

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Huh. It's an interesting experiment, to be sure. But at least it would be research in the wild, as opposed to research in controlled environments based off of the actions of strictly-college-sophomores. Isnt' there a way to measure the emotional content of language?

I'm sure there are measures for that. It's been a long time since I've been involved in any real academic research.

 

[Northern Light]

I have a hard time believing your experiences. And I thought it was common knowledge that right wingers are nastier and more ugly to people of whom they don't agree. I've been on this board for 7 years and that has been my experience pretty consistently... as has it been outside the internet.

Btw... conservative blogs and comments on message boards mean exactly nothing towards your premise. I can find plenty of them that show that right wingers are far nastier. You're a right winger. You're not going to notice the problems on your side. I see it on both sides and have confronted both. I see the right as being quite a bit worse.

I grew up in a right wing community and after I entered adulthood I moved to more liberal areas. I 100% agree with your assessment. IRL, right wingers are by far more vocally nasty about their beliefs. Most left wingers will vehemently disagree with the right and explain why but the kind of slurs and disgusting remarks that we hear from the right don't typically get uttered by the left. That might be due to political correctness, or just an earnest desire to not start flame wars, I don't know. Bottom line, I have never encountered the kind of ignorance and bigotry I have among right wingers, but in all honestly I would say both sides are capable of hubris.

Online, I think there is vitriol from both sides. The internet breeds hateful remarks because people can hide behind their computer screens. The kind of disgusting, depraved, outrageous and deplorable comments I've seen people make online would never be uttered in person by most of those people. Why? Because they are downright cowards.

Your theory should be tested. It's a hypothesis that I for one believe would be correct.

 

[X Factor]

I have been debating over whether I have time to test my theory. It's a theory I've been professing for the past 7 years here, and one, from my observation is accurate. As one who goes after both conservatives and liberals, I believe that my perceptions are on target Also, a member once attempted to discover this by posting as each ideology to see the responses he got. He confirmed my theory. I am working on figuring out exactly how to measure this theory.

I agree that you do this, CC, but would you agree that, depending on how it's worded, you will always find that left is just better? If I say that the left tends to be more anti-America and anti-Constitution (I'm not talking disagreements about it, I'm talking about people who think it's outdated and should be replaced), would you agree that, while that is not the norm, it definitely is true in enough cases so say that the left is MORE that way? Or is it your impulse to defend the left and tell me how wrong I am (being one of those racist conservatives that we all are :mrgreen? If it's the latter, that's cool, maybe you'll understand where I'm coming from.

Basically, your opinion is just the same as the OPs but with the opposite conclusion. Is that fair to say?

 

[Gardener]

I have been debating over whether I have time to test my theory. It's a theory I've been professing for the past 7 years here, and one, from my observation is accurate. As one who goes after both conservatives and liberals, I believe that my perceptions are on target Also, a member once attempted to discover this by posting as each ideology to see the responses he got. He confirmed my theory. I am working on figuring out exactly how to measure this theory.

My own theory to explain your theory has to do with group identity. More conservatives see their conservatism in terms of identity rather than ideology, and so react more directly when they see their identity threatened. Heck, just count the number of times conservative posters refer to "liberals" as if their little game of cowboys and Indians actually defined the world. When they see their turf threatened, they react accordingly.

The key to it all as far as I'm concerned has to do with the way people accept dogma without any analysis, and they do so because the need to conform outweighs anything else.

 

[X Factor]

So, I think what we can conclude from this thread is that right wingers all suck. Lol.

...bowing out now.

 

[Gardener]

So, I think what we can conclude from this thread is that right wingers all suck. Lol.

Nah. It's just that you have to keep reminding them to look up at you when they do.

Between the Islamist apologists of the left who walk lockstep with their p.c. mindlessness and the bible thumpers and dittoheads of the right who use the term "liberal" in every post, there are plenty of people who suck in these forums. Add in the lunatic conspiracy theorists, the 17 year old "libertarians" who just found their new religion and the one issue haters, and there is so much suckage that it can be tough to find posters who DON'T suck.

Just be glad that you aren't one of them.

 

[mpg]

If anything, it's either payback or frustration.

The right has cornered the market on rudeness and condescending arrogance.

If anything, it's just their chickens coming home to roost.

Call it karma. :mrgreen:

the old 'They started it!' defense

 

[Northern Light]

So, I think what we can conclude from this thread is that right wingers all suck. Lol.

...bowing out now.

Nope... just that when they do suck, they suck a lot more.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I agree that you do this, CC, but would you agree that, depending on how it's worded, you will always find that left is just better? If I say that the left tends to be more anti-America and anti-Constitution (I'm not talking disagreements about it, I'm talking about people who think it's outdated and should be replaced), would you agree that, while that is not the norm, it definitely is true in enough cases so say that the left is MORE that way? Or is it your impulse to defend the left and tell me how wrong I am (being one of those racist conservatives that we all are :mrgreen? If it's the latter, that's cool, maybe you'll understand where I'm coming from.

Of course I would tell you that you were wrong... if you worded it the way you did, and I would show that conservatives are more anti-American and anti-Constitution using the same poorly constructed wording. I am BIG on presentation. I've said it HUNDREDS of times. If you... or anyone, presents a position with dishonest, highly charged terminology, I will attack the opposite side using the same dishonest, highly charged terminology... and THEN often show how the terminology is dishonest and highly charged. Look at the two words you used: "anti-American" and "anti-Constitutional". Dishonest and highly charged... and nothing but partisan rhetoric. Guess what, X? Neither leftwingers nor rightwingers are "anti-American" or "anti-Constitution". Each side just has a different vision of how America should look, and a different (and legitimate) way that the Constitution should be interpreted. Anyone who disagrees with this statement is a hack who thinks inflexibly and is part of the problem.

So, yes, I understand exactly where you are coming from. You get defensive when anyone attacks conservatives, but what you do is just attack liberals back, rather than demonstrating the stupidity of the attack itself. You miss the big picture because you are so focused on defending your side. Each side has characteristics in how their hacks behave. They are different, but neither are very civil.

Basically, your opinion is just the same as the OPs but with the opposite conclusion. Is that fair to say?

No, it isn't.

 

[X Factor]

Of course I would tell you that you were wrong... if you worded it the way you did, and I would show that conservatives are more anti-American and anti-Constitution using the same poorly constructed wording. I am BIG on presentation. I've said it HUNDREDS of times. If you... or anyone, presents a position with dishonest, highly charged terminology, I will attack the opposite side using the same dishonest, highly charged terminology... and THEN often show how the terminology is dishonest and highly charged. Look at the two words you used: "anti-American" and "anti-Constitutional". Dishonest and highly charged... and nothing but partisan rhetoric. Guess what, X? Neither leftwingers nor rightwingers are "anti-American" or "anti-Constitution". Each side just has a different vision of how America should look, and a different (and legitimate) way that the Constitution should be interpreted. Anyone who disagrees with this statement is a hack who thinks inflexibly and is part of the problem.

So, yes, I understand exactly where you are coming from. You get defensive when anyone attacks conservatives, but what you do is just attack liberals back, rather than demonstrating the stupidity of the attack itself. You miss the big picture because you are so focused on defending your side. Each side has characteristics in how their hacks behave. They are different, but neither are very civil.

I see, I'm supposed to just accept you saying we're more likely to be horrible racists (and that's not emotionally charged at all, noooo) but do not say anything negative about liberals because nothing negative about liberals is true? If you haven't seen some liberals, a few say the Constitution is outdated then it's because you haven't wanted to. It sucks though, doesn't it, to be told you're more likely some way because of what a few have said. I notice you're ok with doing that to conservatives but don't dare do that to liberals. Apparently, if the OP had been a question like "Why Are Conservatives so Much More Racist" you would actually have agreed with it.

No, it isn't.

What's the difference?

 

[Gardener]

I see, I'm supposed to just accept you saying we're more likely to be horrible racists (and that's not emotionally charged at all, noooo) but do not say anything negative about liberals because nothing negative about liberals is true? If you haven't seen some liberals, a few say the Constitution is outdated then it's because you haven't wanted to. It sucks though, doesn't it, to be told you're more likely some way because of what a few have said. I notice you're ok with doing that to conservatives but don't dare do that to liberals. Apparently, if the OP had been a question like "Why Are Conservatives so Much More Racist" you would actually have agreed with it.





What's the difference?

I prefer to use left and right because there are so few actual liberals here, but I see plenty of evidence that both sides of the spectrum can become dishonest when addressing race. I would add ethnicity and religion to the mix as well.

This is a broad generalization, of course, but the further to the right you look, the more overt racists you will find. The further left, the more racial apologists you will find -- the old soft racism of diminished expectations. The further right you look, the more you will find people who embrace Christianity and blast Islam. The further left you look, the more people you will find who automatically defend everything and anything about Islam, but who hate Christianity. Both ends of the spectrum hate Jews, the extreme right doing so more overtly, and the extreme left more weasel like. The right lays claim to the "Love it or leave it" jingoists and the left lays claims to the knee-jerk anti-Americans. In all these generalizations, I see it as a factor of magnitude rather than ideology as it is the byproduct of extremity and dogmatism rather than a function of underlying ideology. Ideological association x extremity = bigotry.

In any case, I see you as a moderate conservative rather than any sort of arch conservative. You are a very reasonable fellow and not an ideologue. I see CC as a moderate liberal and not a fire breathing leftist. Neither of you embody the negative traits that are being discussed, so maybe you are just talking past one another.

 

[Manc Skipper]

I really don't see this "defends Islam but hates Christianity" meme in evidence from any political pole. If you seek to make an association with leftists and atheism, there might be a slender basis for it, but atheists don't selectively reject gods, and certainly not different flavours of the same one. Leftist may make the point that all extremism is repellent, including Christian ones, but that's not "hating" anybody.

 

[X Factor]

I prefer to use left and right because there are so few actual liberals here, but I see plenty of evidence that both sides of the spectrum can become dishonest when addressing race. I would add ethnicity and religion to the mix as well.

This is a broad generalization, of course, but the further to the right you look, the more overt racists you will find. The further left, the more racial apologists you will find -- the old soft racism of diminished expectations. The further right you look, the more you will find people who embrace Christianity and blast Islam. The further left you look, the more people you will find who automatically defend everything and anything about Islam, but who hate Christianity. Both ends of the spectrum hate Jews, the extreme right doing so more overtly, and the extreme left more weasel like. The right lays claim to the "Love it or leave it" jingoists and the left lays claims to the knee-jerk anti-Americans. In all these generalizations, I see it as a factor of magnitude rather than ideology as it is the byproduct of extremity and dogmatism rather than a function of underlying ideology. Ideological association x extremity = bigotry.

In any case, I see you as a moderate conservative rather than any sort of arch conservative. You are a very reasonable fellow and not an ideologue. I see CC as a moderate liberal and not a fire breathing leftist. Neither of you embody the negative traits that are being discussed, so maybe you are just talking past one another.

Thank you, G. There isn't anything you've said here that I disagree with.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I see, I'm supposed to just accept you saying we're more likely to be horrible racists (and that's not emotionally charged at all, noooo) but do not say anything negative about liberals because nothing negative about liberals is true?

You must be speaking to someone else. There is nothing above that resembles what I've stated.

If you haven't seen some liberals, a few say the Constitution is outdated then it's because you haven't wanted to.

I never said that either. Keep creating arguments that I never made.

It sucks though, doesn't it, to be told you're more likely some way because of what a few have said. I notice you're ok with doing that to conservatives but don't dare do that to liberals. Apparently, if the OP had been a question like "Why Are Conservatives so Much More Racist" you would actually have agreed with it.

If someone posted the question, "Why are Conservatives so much more racist", I would have either tried to explain it, or dispel it, considering that the question was formatted as a "why" question, requiring an explanation, not an agreement. This is the difference between an open-ended question and a closed-ended question.

Now, if you want to HONESTLY look at racism as a generalization, both sides embody it, but tend to focus on different groups.

What's the difference?

Thus far all you've done is make inaccurate assumptions. Let's see if YOU can figure it out.