Why Are LIBERALS So Deluded on FREE TRADE?

[Hawkeye10]

Ryan Cooper

First of all, there's no reason why the Western working class has to take the hits of globalization. One could easily imagine a counterfactual history where working class declines were compensated by increased taxation on the rich and better welfare. (That this didn't happen is largely due to neoliberals eliminating trade barriers and cutting welfare at the same time.)

But the more fundamental thing to note is that rich nations almost universally got rich behind stiff tariffs and other anti-trade measures. That was true of the United States in the 19th century, and it was true of Japan and South Korea in the 20th century. The reason for such trade policies was perfectly obvious at the time. As Sven Beckert details in Empire of Cotton, before the Industrial Revolution, the vast majority of cotton growing and textile manufacturing happened in India and China. But as Britain hit on the first instance of spectacular productivity growth, they flooded the Asian markets with very cheap textiles — and enforced their access to those markets with military force.

Why are liberals so deluded on free trade?

FINALLY we are talking about this.

THANKS DON!

Seriously.

 

[Henrin]

I would love to see some data supporting the claims he made there.

In any event, I can't help to laugh at the complaints of cheap products.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I would love to see some data supporting the claims he made there.

In any event, I can't help to laugh at the complaints of cheap products.

I laugh every time I take something that used to last damn near a lifetime to the dump in less than three years.

I am so sick of cheap crap made by who knows who, with nobody in the system caring about quality.

The last example of this was a lamp.

This is sarcasm BTW.

I cry.

 

[Absentglare]

Ryan Cooper


Why are liberals so deluded on free trade?

FINALLY we are talking about this.

THANKS DON!

Seriously.

"One could easily imagine a counterfactual history where working class declines were compensated by increased taxation on the rich and better welfare."

I guess i feel like, as a liberal, i'm in favor of increased taxation on the rich and better welfare.

At the very least, better welfare.

So who is the article really criticizing ?

 

[Hawkeye10]

"One could easily imagine a counterfactual history where working class declines were compensated by increased taxation on the rich and better welfare."

I guess i feel like, as a liberal, i'm in favor of increased taxation on the rich and better welfare.

At the very least, better welfare.

So who is the article really criticizing ?

Clearly we have suffered a communications failure.

I am happy that this TABOO is breaking.

THAT was my only claim.

Seriously.
.
.
.
.
And that I hate crap. . . . I am a quality kind of a guy. . . .

:cowboy:

 

[Redress]

Ryan Cooper


Why are liberals so deluded on free trade?

FINALLY we are talking about this.

THANKS DON!

Seriously.

Why are conservatives so deluded about liberals...and everything else!

 

[Carjosse]

Why are conservatives so deluded about liberals...and everything else!

Well in this case he is referring to economic liberals which is most people these days with the exception of a few who did not get a memo.

 

[Red_Dave]

In any event, I can't help to laugh at the complaints of cheap products.

Its great fun for everyone accept the person making the product in appalling conditions and the people who would be making the product if these kinds of conditions were tolerated in their country. Basically a race to the bottom for all concerned.

 

[FieldTheorist]

Free trade is one of those "across-party lines" issues. Republicans love them, Democrats love them. The true Left has always hated them, however.

 

[Carjosse]

Western countries reached their economic power with free trade, the US post World War II was all about free trade and Britain essentially had free trade within its empire till it shifted to focus on Europe in the late 20th century.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Why are conservatives so deluded about liberals...and everything else!

If they are it is probably because we can not hold conversations anymore, we dont get to know people who dont agree with us, and so empathy breaks down.

Something that you really SHOULD know if you are smart and also pay attention.

But maybe you dont.

You tell me.

Seriously.




ps. U asked.

 

[coldjoint]

You could have stopped at deluded, or , brainwashed.

 

[Grand Mal]

Ryan Cooper


Why are liberals so deluded on free trade?

FINALLY we are talking about this.

THANKS DON!

Seriously.

Wait a minute. Are conservatives advocating government participation in the marketplace, government interference with free markets? And complaining because liberals favour free trade?
Is this conservative asking for more government control?

 

[Hawkeye10]

You could have stopped at deluded, or , brainwashed.

I know where you are coming from but let us please see if we can conduct a conversation, MKay?

Good conversation is so ****ing rare in America now, not many are up to it.

We used to be better.

Thanks.

:cowboy:

 

[shrubnose]

"The law,in its majestic equality,forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges,to beg in the streets,and to steal bread" ~ Anatole France.




"Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch,running out of time,GOP.

Wait and see.

 

[Hawkeye10]

"The law,in its majestic equality,forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges,to beg in the streets,and to steal bread" ~ Anatole France.




"Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch,running out of time,GOP.

Wait and see.

I dont know you.

Do you know how to do good conversation?

 

[Henrin]

I laugh every time I take something that used to last damn near a lifetime to the dump in less than three years.

I am so sick of cheap crap made by who knows who, with nobody in the system caring about quality.

The last example of this was a lamp.

This is sarcasm BTW.

I cry.

Free trade creates opportunity and efficiency. It allows markets to specialize in what they are efficient at producing. It incentivizes innovation and thus creates more higher paying jobs and a higher quality of living.

You really have to stop listening to idiots that think holding the market back is a good idea.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Wait a minute. Are conservatives advocating government participation in the marketplace, government interference with free markets? And complaining because liberals favour free trade?
Is this conservative asking for more government control?

In conversation things should go both ways, which means that it is impolite to show up with only questions.

And why are you asking me?

Do your own work.

Thanks.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Free trade creates opportunity and efficiency. It allows markets to specialize in what they are efficient at producing. It incentivizes innovation and thus creates more higher paying jobs and a higher quality of living.

You really have to stop listening to idiots that think holding the market back is a good idea.

I am a socialist, as you should know....and you think that argument is going to work on me???

OOOKKKAYYYY........

:bon_voyag

 

[Henrin]

I am a socialist, as you should know....and you think that argument is going to work on me?

OOOKKKAYYYY........

:bon_voyag

As a socialist I'm sure you can find a flaw in my argument.

 

[Hawkeye10]

As a socialist I'm sure you can find a flaw in my argument, right?

Ya, Markets dont always work, they are only sometimes the right tool for the job, as almost any socialist with any common sense will tell you.

Free markets, and more importantly free flow of capital, has gotten the American working class, and much of the middle class, ****ED!

These are my top two arguments for how I know that you are wrong..... I have about a dozen more.

But I demand conversation if we are to continue.

I know there are DP MEMBERS who can do it.

 

[Van Basten]

I am a socialist, as you should know....and you think that argument is going to work on me???

OOOKKKAYYYY........

:bon_voyag

Lol, what?

Here I thought you were a small-government conservative, turns out, you're something even worse!

 

[Hawkeye10]

Lol, what?

Here I thought you were a small-government conservative, turns out, you're something even worse!

There are so many layers to this onion.

You best stand pat.

WATCH/LEARN

 

[Henrin]

Ya, Markets dont always work, they are only sometimes the right tool for the job, as almost any socialist with any common sense will tell you.

The idea this thread is promoting is protecting markets from competition. It does this by basically forcing prices higher for outside markets and therefore pushing consumers towards less competitive businesses. This idea will boost poor performing markets, decrease growth in relation to what it otherwise would be, and provide less motivation for developing future markets.

Free markets, and more importantly free flow of capital, has gotten the American working class, and much of the middle class, ****ED!

I would love to see evidence to support that claim. What is happening here in the states is people not moving towards more productive and high paying jobs due to a failure to adopt to changing markets.

 

[coldjoint]

Free trade is more about wealth redistribution than anything else. And do not forget the carbon tax allowing global control through international concessions of the wealthy countries, not the countries wealthy. It will hurt that countries citizens and in the long run and reduce the standard of living worldwide.