Why are guns so important to Americans?

[Jerry]

I am very anti gun. I think they should all be collected and melted down to make something useful. When i say this most people look at me like I am crazy. You may too. I just want to know why people feel the need to have them. Please explain this need if you would be so kind.

Dr. Tiller might be alive today if he carried.....just sayin....

 

[Inferno]

I have guns, hunting rifles, shotguns...... My brothers, uncles, grandfathers all have way more guns then I do. When you run horses for a living, you'd be amazed how many times you need a gun.

We use our guns mainly for hunting. We still have a largely subsistance lifestyle and almost all of my meat comes from wild game.

My brothers make me take a pistol with me anytime I go through North or South Dakota alone. I'm glad they did. I was dumb and ran out of gas in SD and needed it to protect myself from some drunken farm boys. The gas station guy locked us both in the station and called the sheriff who did nothing but admonish me for the pistol. I told him I wasn't going to kill anyone with it, just blow off their balls. I was dead serious too.

I've had to put down horses, cattle, a dog or two, cats...... Just a part of life on a working ranch, animals get injured and are in pain and you do what you have to do.

The skunk down at the culvert got hit by a tractor and I had to go put him down the other day. That was sad, he had a family, cute lil guys.

Then there's the neighbor's damn dogs. I've got my .22 ready for those mongrels. They're running in a pack and ran my stud colt through a fence, ripped him to shreds and I almost lost him. I shot one of them that night. I'm laying in wait for the other two.

Out here, way in the middle of no where, the lifestyle almost makes it a necessity to have a gun. Mine aren't for people though, and I'm not one for target shooting or sport shooting. Mine aren't for recreation, whatever that means. My guns are part of how I live, a tool, not a weapon.

I've said that before, that guns are a tool to me, and got jumped on for saying it. Some people can't conceive of it apparently.

Okay you both say that guns for you are tools. I read what you say ND and you as well Goshin. What I do not understand is what does anyone need a gun for in the city of Chicago except to protect them self from another person with a gun that they have only ti create a problem. How does needed to hunt or running horses or whatever you do Goshin translate into we need to let folks in Chicago and Detroit and LA and NY have hand guns and assault weapons. This is the problem.

 

[Livebythesword]

OP,

Ill tell you exactly why guns of all forms should be allowed in America.
First, let me say that I have worked for all sorts of governments, Communist, Totalitarian, democracies, etc. Let me tell you something they all have in common. They don't give a rats ass about you. If you take away guns from the people, the government no longer fears its people. Governments should always fear there people, otherwise they will never respect their rights. Great examples to look at is look at the democide numbers in Russia and China. A fully armed and educated population is the surest way to protect your way of life. Whatever that may be.

 

[Inferno]

OP,

Ill tell you exactly why guns of all forms should be allowed in America.
First, let me say that I have worked for all sorts of governments, Communist, Totalitarian, democracies, etc. Let me tell you something they all have in common. They don't give a rats ass about you. If you take away guns from the people, the government no longer fears its people. Governments should always fear there people, otherwise they will never respect their rights. Great examples to look at is look at the democide numbers in Russia and China. A fully armed and educated population is the surest way to protect your way of life. Whatever that may be.

Just a question: Where did you find a communist government?

People do not need handguns or assault weapons in the major cities I am sorry.

 

[Livebythesword]

I did some work 2 years ago in Laos, Vietnam, and like three years ago Cuba. They call themselves communist. We could probably argue all day what they really are. I'm not going to try and change your opinion because you seem to have your mind made up. All I can tell you is that if your faith of security is in the government, you are sorely mistaken.

 

[WI Crippler]

Okay you both say that guns for you are tools. I read what you say ND and you as well Goshin. What I do not understand is what does anyone need a gun for in the city of Chicago except to protect them self from another person with a gun that they have only ti create a problem. How does needed to hunt or running horses or whatever you do Goshin translate into we need to let folks in Chicago and Detroit and LA and NY have hand guns and assault weapons. This is the problem.

Why do you feel all countries should have nukes?

 

[Tucker Case]

Okay you both say that guns for you are tools. I read what you say ND and you as well Goshin. What I do not understand is what does anyone need a gun for in the city of Chicago except to protect them self from another person with a gun that they have only ti create a problem. How does needed to hunt or running horses or whatever you do Goshin translate into we need to let folks in Chicago and Detroit and LA and NY have hand guns and assault weapons. This is the problem.

I live in Chicago and I hunt.

 

[Inferno]

I did some work 2 years ago in Laos, Vietnam, and like three years ago Cuba. They call themselves communist. We could probably argue all day what they really are. I'm not going to try and change your opinion because you seem to have your mind made up. All I can tell you is that if your faith of security is in the government, you are sorely mistaken.

Just because they call themselves that doesn't make it so. You could call yourself bacon but that doesn't make that so either.

You are mistaken. I never really said a word about faith in government. I don't believe that people in major metropolitan cities need handguns or assault weapons. I don't believe that anyone needs an assault weapon. The cities are loaded with guns. many of these guns have been stolen from the homes of people that bought them to protect their home with. I guess if you hunt in a rural area that is one thing. What do you hunt with an assault weapon?

 

[Inferno]

I live in Chicago and I hunt.

What do you hunt with your assault weapon? You may hunt with a rifle or a shotgun. I am sure you don't hunt with a handgun or an assault weapon.

 

[Inferno]

I feel that they are entitled to have them if we do. I don't think anyone should have them. Who can say that we can be trusted with them after the invasion of Iraq? How can we be trusted?

 

[WI Crippler]

I feel that they are entitled to have them if we do. Who can say that we can be trusted with them after the invasion of Iraq? How can we be trusted?

What I am asking is, if you feel that countries should be allowed to have nuclear weapons as a deterrent from what they might deem, an unjust invasion,Why don't you believe people should be allowed to own a firearm, for much the same reason?

 

[Inferno]

What I am asking is, if you feel that countries should be allowed to have nuclear weapons as a deterrent from what they might deem, an unjust invasion,Why don't you believe people should be allowed to own a firearm, for much the same reason?

I am answering that. I don't think they should have nukes.

I am saying we have nukes so others are entitled to them. That is different then saying I want everyone to have them.

 

[WI Crippler]

I am answering that. I don't think they should have nukes.

I am saying we have nukes so others are entitled to them. That is different then saying I want everyone to have them.

Criminals have guns. So by your logic, so should law abiding citizens.

 

[Tucker Case]

What do you hunt with your assault weapon? You may hunt with a rifle or a shotgun. I am sure you don't hunt with a handgun or an assault weapon.

What's an assault weapon exactly? I hear this a lot, but I guarantee my old man's Remington semi-automatic slug gun is a damned site more powerful and dangerous than an assault rifle. It's basically a shotgun with a different kind of barrel so that it shoots a slug that's about the size of a shotgun shell instead of shooting "shot". It can do some serious damage. I'd have to reload more often, but after years of skeet shooting, I can reload a shotgun pretty quick.


I personally don't own a handgun, in fact, I don't really own any guns anymore because my wife hates them.

But if I wanted to own a handgun, in city limits, the only option I would have is to go down to some place like Clybourn and Diversey and pick one up for about $50 from one of the many heroin dealers over there.

And they aren't going to run a background check. The reason I'd have to go to a place like that is because Chicago has the stupidest gun laws in the country. Nobody can legally own a handgun within city limits, but we're consistently the murder capital of the country.

Just like the drug laws haven't done **** from keeping these types of people from getting the heroin, so it is with Chicago's asinine gun laws keeping criminals from being armed.

And I ran with a shady crowd back in my younger days, so I guarantee you I could have one by midnight tonight if that was what I wanted to do. It might take a series of phone calls to guys I haven't talked to in years, but I could get it done.

What I can't do is go through the process of getting a handgun legally in city limits. Not even to legally protect myself in the murder capital of the country.

We've had this handgun ban in effect for 27 years. Since 1982. From 82 until 93, our murder rates increased. Since 93 the rates have decreased, yet they have not lowered to the pre-1982 levels yet! And these are "rates" so they are per capita.

In essence, Chicago's gun laws have been nothing but an abysmal failure. Just like the war on drugs has been. They are related because no law has ever been designed that in and of itself will deter a criminal. It can't happen. Criminals break laws. That's what they do. It's the main prerequisite for the job. They really don't care if you make something more illegal.

So making new laws in order to deter crime is one of the dumbest endeavors even engaged upon.

It simply can not happen. If anything, there is an overall increase in total crimes because there is a new crime to get busted for.

So here I am, living in the murder capital of the country, and I can't legally protect myself from criminals.

 

[Goshin]

Criminals have guns. So by your logic, so should law abiding citizens.

"I'll take WI Crippler for the win, John."

We've talked about the Second Amendment and innumerable other reasons, but here is the most compelling one: because other people have them and you can't make them all disappear.

If a scumbag has a gun, and I don't, I am at a huge disadvantage.

This is why law abiding citizens in large cities need guns even more than rural folk. They have more criminals and more crime.

There simply is no way to make guns go POOF and be gone. Gun control disarms only the law-abiding; the criminals remain armed and the lawful become all but helpless against them.

G.

 

[Goshin]

Tucker, I wish I could thank you twice. Game, set, match.


G.

 

[stevenb]

Just because they call themselves that doesn't make it so. You could call yourself bacon but that doesn't make that so either.

You are mistaken. I never really said a word about faith in government. I don't believe that people in major metropolitan cities need handguns or assault weapons. I don't believe that anyone needs an assault weapon. The cities are loaded with guns. many of these guns have been stolen from the homes of people that bought them to protect their home with. I guess if you hunt in a rural area that is one thing. What do you hunt with an assault weapon?

I'm with Tucker Case on this one,

Please define an "assault weapon".

 

[submarinepainter]

I grew up with guns , earned at an early age to use them and treat them with respect. My father always said never point them at people and I wouldn't unless I was threatened. I like to go target shooting , it is a fun hobby , I used to hunt be I am to lazy now!!

 

[Tucker Case]

Tucker, I wish I could thank you twice. Game, set, match.


G.

LOL. To be fair, I've got years of making that argument under my belt. My wife hates guns. I've gotten her to still be a gun hater, but one who doesn't support gun control laws.

That took about 5 years, though. :lol:

 

[stevenb]

LOL. To be fair, I've got years of making that argument under my belt. My wife hates guns. I've gotten her to still be a gun hater, but one who doesn't support gun control laws.

That took about 5 years, though. :lol:

Took me 5 years for her to accept the fact that I own guns and they'll be in our house.

My little lady told me that we wouldn't have children if I kept guns.. I told her "Well guess we're not going to have kids."... hit her in the cumulative baby maker and she caved like a Congressman at a free lunch.. for something they don't support.

 

[Tucker Case]

Took me 5 years for her to accept the fact that I own guns and they'll be in our house.

My little lady told me that we wouldn't have children if I kept guns.. I told her "Well guess we're not going to have kids."... hit her in the cumulative baby maker and she caved like a Congressman at a free lunch.. for something they don't support.

My wife has done pretty much the same regarding the "no guns in the house rule", but I never owned my guns for defensive purposes, so it hasn't been an issue for me.

I would get a gun so that she could defend herself from an attack, but since she'll never be wiling to learn how to use it, she'll just be more of a danger to herself than the attacker.

Basically we have a compromise, though. I have other weapons in the house for defensive purposes. For the first year we were married, I taught her a lot of self-defense moves, as well as how to use the weapons I do have in the house. We also got a dog and a security system.

I still have unfettered access to all of my old guns (I just gave them to my dad) so I can go shooting whenever I want.

If we didn't live in a good neighborhood, that rule would get more of a challenge from me. But in our situation, I'm content with a dog and a security system combined with the weapons we do have in the house.

Plus, I can't legally own a handgun anyway.

 

[Goobieman]

What do you hunt with your assault weapon?

Anything that I can hunt with my M700 in .308, I can hunt just as well with my M1A.

Anything that I can hunt with my M700 in .223 I can hunt just as well with my AR15.

What makes you think I can't?

 

[Goobieman]

Plus, I can't legally own a handgun anyway.

With any luck, that will change relatively soon.
:2wave:

 

[winston53660]

Anything that I can hunt with my M700 in .308, I can hunt just as well with my M1A.

Anything that I can hunt with my M700 in .223 I can hunt just as well with my AR15.

What makes you think I can't?

You certainly could but why?

 

[Goobieman]

You certainly could but why?

The 'assault weapons' fire the same round as the related M700 and are just as accurate -- so, why not?