Whose read atlas shrugged?

[haymarket]

Having done both with no regrets it allows me perspective to more fully understand different viewpoints...including yours.

You have me there at a distinct disadvantage.... not once but twice.

 

[Deuce]

I have rational debates all the time. Maybe your just too lazy to take part.

The problem with pure, unregulated capitalism is that there's always someone out there who will literally kill you if they think it will help their bottom line. Sometimes it's not entirely on purpose, they just cut corners in a way that results in a statistically higher likelihood of death. Other times, though, it is on purpose. Like when a product is killing customers and the business does its best to hide that information from the public for as long as possible.

Numerous examples exist.

 

[Fletch]

The problem with pure, unregulated capitalism is that there's always someone out there who will literally kill you if they think it will help their bottom line. Sometimes it's not entirely on purpose, they just cut corners in a way that results in a statistically higher likelihood of death. Other times, though, it is on purpose. Like when a product is killing customers and the business does its best to hide that information from the public for as long as possible.

Numerous examples exist.

That happens even in highly regulated societies. If someone wants to harm you, they will. The idea is to have laws in place to punish those who do. Th market will punish those who produce inferior or harmful products, but the law could/should punish them as well.

 

[Dickieboy]

You have me there at a distinct disadvantage.... not once but twice.

Really? I always assumed, apparently erroneously, that your opinions on Rand and her writings/opinions were based on at least a minimum of reading some of her works…I on the other hand have read MANY writings by authors across the spectrum of positions, from say Tolstoy, Marx and Alinsky to Rand, Nietzsche, Mill and Hayek as I believe it is formative, and enlightening, to indulge in the thinking’s of ones opponents. It is quite disappointing that you have not indulged likewise in said…

 

[LowDown]

It isn't taught in schools because its libertarian bull****.

So, the universities are not the bastions of free thinking that the academics are always saying, eh? Who'd a thunk it?

 

[Wake]

I am currently reading atlas shrugged at what at first I thought was going to be a chore has become one of the most enjoyable books I've ever read. Why is this not taught in our schools its better than most of the crap I read for class

I haven't read it, but it seems like an interesting book to read.

 

[YoungConserv]

Because Ayn Rand was a terrible writer.

You obviously haven't read the book.

 

[Carjosse]

When we read Anthem in our English class, and it was horrible. If Atlas Shrugged is like Anthem then I already know it's horrible. Anthem didn't change any of my opinions other than Libertarianism and Ron Paul are stupider than I thought.

 

[Carjosse]

You obviously haven't read the book.

No she actually is, this is much better writing if you want political slant in your stories.

 

[YoungConserv]

It isn't taught in schools because its libertarian bull****.

And there isn't liberal bull taught in our schools? Why not balance it out?

 

[LowDown]

And I write it because Rand acolytes are impossible to talk to in a rational debate. Any criticism of "full, pure, uncontrolled, unregulated laissez-faire capitalism" has them just turn around and say "well that's what the market did so therefore it's good!"

This seems like a caricature of a libertarian argument.

I agree that libertarian arguments are difficult to counter since they are based in something many people just can't grasp, which is the idea that people can get along fine on their own and that most people are trustworthy.

 

[YoungConserv]

This seems like a caricature of a libertarian argument.

I agree that libertarian arguments are difficult to counter since they are based in something many people just can't grasp, which is the idea that people can get along fine on their own and that most people are trustworthy.

I'm not finished yet but it seems to me her point wasn't for unregulated capitalism as much as it pointed out how when you regulate to the point where you can't make a profit you have to bow to the will of the bureaucrats will to survive.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

This seems like a caricature of a libertarian argument.

I agree that libertarian arguments are difficult to counter since they are based in something many people just can't grasp, which is the idea that people can get along fine on their own and that most people are trustworthy.

I haven't heard a criticism yet of Ayn Rand that wasn't either a misrepresentation, a personal attack, or a baseless estimation of skill from one who hasn't read her work. Just look at how much people who haven't read Atlas Shrugged have to say about it. Why would they be so mad at a book they never read?

 

[Fisher]

My university's political science department was very Socratic (but not in the harsh law school way) and very writing intensive (we would often have 35-50 page papers in lieu of tests and 50+ page papers as exams). You could be as whatever as you wanted to be as long as you showed research and analytical skills and could write a complete sentence.

 

[Wake]

I don't read much for literature, like Atlus Shrugged. Usually it's science and other technical/academic books. I've heard about Ayn Rand, but I've also heard from Christopher Hitchens that Ayn created a "fantasy realm" of sorts with her talk about a "philosophical hero" that is the reader, iirc.

 

[LowDown]

I'm not finished yet but it seems to me her point wasn't for unregulated capitalism as much as it pointed out how when you regulate to the point where you can't make a profit you have to bow to the will of the bureaucrats will to survive.

Libertarians are frequently accused of wanting no regulations on the market at all, but that's a false accusation. They want the minimum necessary regulations, which would be way less than we have now in the US, for example. There are also regulations that we don't have that we probably should have, like requiring reserve to cover all CDSs a company writes.

 

[haymarket]

Really? I always assumed, apparently erroneously, that your opinions on Rand and her writings/opinions were based on at least a minimum of reading some of her works…I on the other hand have read MANY writings by authors across the spectrum of positions, from say Tolstoy, Marx and Alinsky to Rand, Nietzsche, Mill and Hayek as I believe it is formative, and enlightening, to indulge in the thinking’s of ones opponents. It is quite disappointing that you have not indulged likewise in said…

I have read selections from Rand. More than what you would call a minimum. I have absorbed the central themes and ideas and more than absorbed the terrible writing style.

I failed to get through ATLAS. If I remember right there was a 100 page speech made by one character, her pin up boy for all that is good - John Galt - and that pretty much did me in. Did that woman even have an editor?

 

[Mycroft]

I'm not finished yet but it seems to me her point wasn't for unregulated capitalism as much as it pointed out how when you regulate to the point where you can't make a profit you have to bow to the will of the bureaucrats will to survive.

or quit.

That is, indeed, part of her point.

 

[Fletch]

I have read selections from Rand. More than what you would call a minimum. I have absorbed the central themes and ideas and more than absorbed the terrible writing style.

Actually, from what I have gathered in speaking with you, you may have done more than the minimum in reading (which I doubt), but you have done nothing in the way of grasping.

I failed to get through ATLAS. If I remember right there was a 100 page speech made by one character, her pin up boy for all that is good - John Galt - and that pretty much did me in. Did that woman even have an editor?

Galts speech is at the very end of the book, so if you want to claim you made it that far,then you can basically claim you read the whole book--which, I suspect, you have never touched.

 

[Fletch]

I'm not finished yet but it seems to me her point wasn't for unregulated capitalism as much as it pointed out how when you regulate to the point where you can't make a profit you have to bow to the will of the bureaucrats will to survive.

She is not an advocate of capitalism because it 'works.' What Rand does is make a moral defense of capitalism. That it works is just a positive byproduct of it being founded upon justice and a solid moral code.

 

[LowDown]

I haven't heard a criticism yet of Ayn Rand that wasn't either a misrepresentation, a personal attack, or a baseless estimation of skill from one who hasn't read her work. Just look at how much people who haven't read Atlas Shrugged have to say about it. Why would they be so mad at a book they never read?

Yes, it's an interesting phenomenon. Sort of like critics of Limbaugh, most of whom have never listened to his show. They just repeat the distortions and misrepresentations that others make. Limbaugh is supposedly racist and so on but you'd listen to the vast majority of his shows trying to find definite proof of that in vain.

I'll admit that Rand is difficult to read, especially Shrugged. She's angry, shrill, and hateful much of the time and wants the takers DEAD. Her philosophy is half baked at best. She comes under fire from many conservatives for being an atheist. Nevertheless, she makes a lot of good points.

 

[Deuce]

That happens even in highly regulated societies. If someone wants to harm you, they will. The idea is to have laws in place to punish those who do. Th market will punish those who produce inferior or harmful products, but the law could/should punish them as well.

Yes, it happens even in highly regulated societies. But it happens less.

The market does a laughable job of "punishing" businesses with harmful products or practices, because most of the time the public has no clue that anything harmful is going on. Part of that magical free market "invisible hand" you guys think exists depends on things like individuals being informed and then making rational decisions based on self-interest.

We are not rational creatures, we know very little about the world around us, and we often act against our own interests.

 

[Deuce]

I'm not finished yet but it seems to me her point wasn't for unregulated capitalism as much as it pointed out how when you regulate to the point where you can't make a profit you have to bow to the will of the bureaucrats will to survive.

"full, pure, uncontrolled, unregulated laissez-faire capitalism."

Her words.

 

[samsmart]

Cloud Atlas is a more fulfilling read.

I really want to see the movie when it's out on DVD it Netflix.

 

[haymarket]

Actually, from what I have gathered in speaking with you, you may have done more than the minimum in reading (which I doubt), but you have done nothing in the way of grasping.

Galts speech is at the very end of the book, so if you want to claim you made it that far,then you can basically claim you read the whole book--which, I suspect, you have never touched.

Is it my turn now to get on my high horse and insult you about things I also have no knowledge of you doing or not doing?