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Who Whines and Criticizes our government most?

Who whines and criticizes our government most?

  • All Liberals

    Votes: 4 36.4%
  • Pacifists/Doves

    Votes: 1 9.1%
  • Noam Chompsky

    Votes: 1 9.1%
  • Saddam Hussein

    Votes: 5 45.5%

  • Total voters
    11

ptsdkid

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I'm talking about USA--the most powerful government on earth.
 

FISHX

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ptsdkid said:
I'm talking about USA--the most powerful government on earth.

Says who?:confused:
 
H

hipsterdufus

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" - Thomas Jefferson

“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” - Mark Twain

“The highest patriotism is not a blind acceptance of official policy, but a love of one's country deep enough to call her to a higher plain” - George McGovern

“Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it.” - George Bernard Shaw

“You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it.” - Malcom X

“Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons.” - Bertrand Russell

"This poll sucks" - Anonymous
 

tryreading

Steve
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ptsdkid said:
I'm talking about USA--the most powerful government on earth.
The most powerful government? What are you talking about? We're the most powerful country.

Criticism is patriotic, not whining. The Iraq war was a mistake, I want our people out. This is a statement, no whining involved.

I want honest candidates, many of them are not. George Bush was wrong to bypass court orders when ordering wiretaps on American citizens, a proper system was already in place to do this. The Senate was a groping mess during the Terri Schiavo controversy, trying to manipulate the Florida courts in an activist attempt to subvert a legal decision, in order to improve their reelection odds. What a cynical, hypocritical dishonesty.

These are complaints and criticisms. We must complain, and question authority. Otherwise our politicians would be even more veracity challenged than they are.

By the way, I didn't vote in your poll, the premise is childish.
 

ptsdkid

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Looks like the poll has touched a few loose nerve endings. No where did I say that I am for or against whiners and criticizers of our government. BTW, government and country are one and the same entity, afterall, we the people/taxpayers are the government. So the poll was geared to finding out who are the greatest whiners and criticizers. Sorry if aka 'Try Reading' couldn't 'Try Comprehending' that in the frst place.

If I had known ahead of time of who here would be upset that they wouldn't be an option--I would have sincerely listed them beforehand.

So it looks like I forgot to add these options to the poll:

*Fidel Castro
*Ramsey Clark
*John Kerry
*Nancy Pelosi
*Dingy Harry Reid
*FishX
*hipsterdufus
*tryreading

Please forgive me for this unintentional slip.
 

FISHX

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ptsdkid said:
Looks like the poll has touched a few loose nerve endings. No where did I say that I am for or against whiners and criticizers of our government. BTW, government and country are one and the same entity, afterall, we the people/taxpayers are the government. So the poll was geared to finding out who are the greatest whiners and criticizers. Sorry if aka 'Try Reading' couldn't 'Try Comprehending' that in the frst place.

If I had known ahead of time of who here would be upset that they wouldn't be an option--I would have sincerely listed them beforehand.

So it looks like I forgot to add these options to the poll:

*Fidel Castro
*Ramsey Clark
*John Kerry
*Nancy Pelosi
*Dingy Harry Reid
*FishX
*hipsterdufus
*tryreading

Please forgive me for this unintentional slip.

LMBFWAO i havent critisised or whined about your goverment please show where i have.
 

tryreading

Steve
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ptsdkid said:
Looks like the poll has touched a few loose nerve endings. No where did I say that I am for or against whiners and criticizers of our government. BTW, government and country are one and the same entity, afterall, we the people/taxpayers are the government. So the poll was geared to finding out who are the greatest whiners and criticizers. Sorry if aka 'Try Reading' couldn't 'Try Comprehending' that in the frst place.

If I had known ahead of time of who here would be upset that they wouldn't be an option--I would have sincerely listed them beforehand.

So it looks like I forgot to add these options to the poll:

*Fidel Castro
*Ramsey Clark
*John Kerry
*Nancy Pelosi
*Dingy Harry Reid
*FishX
*hipsterdufus
*tryreading

Please forgive me for this unintentional slip.
Still childish. I think I have guessed your age group now.

By the way, criticizing and speaking out, and questioning authority, are not only an exercise of freedom of speech, they also are a duty.

The people who criticize the most are those who care about their country the most. Those who sit back and say our government is right to illegally eavesdrop, its okay for them to secretly pay media types to advertise a policy but pretend they are honest pundits, it is fine that we are in Iraq- Saddam Hussein was bad, are unpatriotic followers. They follow because they have a misplaced trust. Its okay to trust your president, but honesty should be subject to verification, no matter the leader.
 
H

hipsterdufus

ptsdkid said:
Looks like the poll has touched a few loose nerve endings. No where did I say that I am for or against whiners and criticizers of our government. BTW, government and country are one and the same entity, afterall, we the people/taxpayers are the government. So the poll was geared to finding out who are the greatest whiners and criticizers. Sorry if aka 'Try Reading' couldn't 'Try Comprehending' that in the frst place.

If I had known ahead of time of who here would be upset that they wouldn't be an option--I would have sincerely listed them beforehand.

So it looks like I forgot to add these options to the poll:

*Fidel Castro
*Ramsey Clark
*John Kerry
*Nancy Pelosi
*Dingy Harry Reid
*FishX
*hipsterdufus
*tryreading

Please forgive me for this unintentional slip.
Oooh ooh ooh pick me pick me!

Only 8 months left till the next war on Christmas. :roll:
 

earthworm

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I'm talking about USA--the most powerful government on earth.
__________________
The most powerful government is probably China; on a per capita basis ??? - the country with the most repression(North Korea).
We may have a rather weak government..
I'd say both conservatives and liberals cry and gripe about the same but offer little CONSTRUCTIVE critism....
But there is a definite need for reform in many areas..

Posters "signatures" should be limited to three lines..
 

tryreading

Steve
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hipsterdufus said:
Only 8 months left till the next war on Christmas. :roll:
I can't wait!

Just thinking about it makes me feel like a kid on Christm... I mean Holiday morning!
 

vergiss

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Ptsdkid - so, if whinging about your government makes you unpatriotic, does that mean you never complained when Clinton was in office?

Somehow, I doubt it.
 
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Why aren't conservatives on the list it's the liberals who love the government and think that it should be the cure to all problems. Conservatives dislike the government and believe that it should have very limited functions; defense and the preservation of national security being two of the most important.
 

CoffeeSaint

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I'd like to vote "All of the above."
1. Liberals recognize that our government has made it its sacred mission to remove all of our civil liberties, in order to make us easier to control.
2. Pacifists recognize that the war on terrorism is the facade behind which the oppression of the world and the destruction of everything noble and good about our society is perpetrated
3. Noam Chomsky is probably the single most perceptive intellectual ever to step out of the ivory tower, and to do so without a particularly self-aggrandizing agenda. I'll listen to his complaints with a lot more interest and attention than 99% of the rest of the population, taken as individuals.
4. Saddam Hussein has every reason to criticize, whine, and complain: he went from being a powerful dictator to an animal in a hole, to a laughing stock in a courtroom. We did this to him illegally, and in violation of almost every ideal we hold dear -- except the ideal that our genitalia are larger than anyone else's, and by God, we'll beat you to death with them if you laugh at us. Wouldn't you complain if the government illegally destroyed your life?

And I'd like you to add "Everyone else with half a brain" to your list.
 

26 X World Champs

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CoffeeSaint said:
I'd like to vote "All of the above."
1. Liberals recognize that our government has made it its sacred mission to remove all of our civil liberties, in order to make us easier to control.
2. Pacifists recognize that the war on terrorism is the facade behind which the oppression of the world and the destruction of everything noble and good about our society is perpetrated
3. Noam Chomsky is probably the single most perceptive intellectual ever to step out of the ivory tower, and to do so without a particularly self-aggrandizing agenda. I'll listen to his complaints with a lot more interest and attention than 99% of the rest of the population, taken as individuals.
4. Saddam Hussein has every reason to criticize, whine, and complain: he went from being a powerful dictator to an animal in a hole, to a laughing stock in a courtroom. We did this to him illegally, and in violation of almost every ideal we hold dear -- except the ideal that our genitalia are larger than anyone else's, and by God, we'll beat you to death with them if you laugh at us. Wouldn't you complain if the government illegally destroyed your life?

And I'd like you to add "Everyone else with half a brain" to your list.
:applaud :agree :usflag2: :bravo:

Have you noticed that no one voted in this ridiculous poll?

Happy Holidays!
 
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CoffeeSaint said:
I'd like to vote "All of the above."
1. Liberals recognize that our government has made it its sacred mission to remove all of our civil liberties, in order to make us easier to control.
Actually that would be the liberals who want to do that the Conservatives have breached certain ediqute yet broken no laws to fight the war on terror due to a very real threat Clinton did the same thing without a credible threat that posed a clear and present danger to the U.S. he tapped phone calls of political opponents and the like for no reason what so ever. Ever hear of project Echelon?
2. Pacifists recognize that the war on terrorism is the facade behind which the oppression of the world and the destruction of everything noble and good about our society is perpetrated
Yes pacifists are quite idiotic morons with no understanding of reality or the very real threat of Radical-Islamo-facism because they have selective amnesia and can't remember 9-11. Pacifists are the same people who appeased Hitler and nazi Germany. You want peace buddy you damn sure better be ready to kill to get it.
3. Noam Chomsky is probably the single most perceptive intellectual ever to step out of the ivory tower, and to do so without a particularly self-aggrandizing agenda. I'll listen to his complaints with a lot more interest and attention than 99% of the rest of the population, taken as individuals.
Noam Chomsky sides with every dictator and tyrant in history just as long as they're anti-American, he also works for the Pentagon yet claims to despise the U.S. military, he is a hypocrit of the highest order and a traitor to boot. I hope you know that Chomsky supported pol-pot the mad communist leader in Cambodia who after the U.S. pulled out of Vietnam murdered millions in the worst genocide since WW2, is that your hero, is that your hero!!!!!!!!
4. Saddam Hussein has every reason to criticize, whine, and complain: he went from being a powerful dictator to an animal in a hole, to a laughing stock in a courtroom. We did this to him illegally, and in violation of almost every ideal we hold dear -- except the ideal that our genitalia are larger than anyone else's, and by God, we'll beat you to death with them if you laugh at us. Wouldn't you complain if the government illegally destroyed your life?
And I'd like you to add "Everyone else with half a brain" to your list.
Actually we didn't do anything illegal unless you believe the one world government socialist traitors who take the sanctity of the U.N. over the soveriegnty of the United States of America, by the way a joint resolution of congress voted for the use of force in Iraq, and U.N. resolution 1441 threatened serious consequences if Saddam failed to fully comply, so in what way did we act in an illegal fashion? I love that you side with Saddam Hussein though that's just par for the course with you people.
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Actually that would be the liberals who want to do that the Conservatives have breached certain ediqute yet broken no laws to fight the war on terror due to a very real threat Clinton did the same thing without a credible threat that posed a clear and present danger to the U.S. he tapped phone calls of political opponents and the like for no reason what so ever. Ever hear of project Echelon?


Yes pacifists are quite idiotic morons with no understanding of reality or the very real threat of Radical-Islamo-facism because they have selective amnesia and can't remember 9-11. Pacifists are the same people who appeased Hitler and nazi Germany. You want peace buddy you damn sure better be ready to kill to get it.


Noam Chomsky sides with every dictator and tyrant in history just as long as they're anti-American, he also works for the Pentagon yet claims to despise the U.S. military, he is a hypocrit of the highest order and a traitor to boot. I hope you know that Chomsky supported pol-pot the mad communist leader in Cambodia who after the U.S. pulled out of Vietnam murdered millions in the worst genocide since WW2, is that your hero, is that your hero!!!!!!!!


Actually we didn't do anything illegal unless you believe the one world government socialist traitors who take the sanctity of the U.N. over the soveriegnty of the United States of America, by the way a joint resolution of congress voted for the use of force in Iraq, and U.N. resolution 1441 threatened serious consequences if Saddam failed to fully comply, so in what way did we act in an illegal fashion? I love that you side with Saddam Hussein though that's just par for the course with you people.
And I love that you have categorized me based on one statement I made, in one argument, on one online forum. So I'm a socialist who worships Noam Chomsky, and thus a traitor, a coward, an idiotic moron, and a hypocrite?
Tell me, is there anyone you don't hate? Please include yourself in the list of potentials.

I've never heard of Project Echelon, and based on the amount of bile in your post here, I will believe nothing you say about it. But even if you are right, saying that Bill Clinton is a bad man doesn't make all conservatives right, and all liberals wrong. That sort of sweeping generalization is exactly what is wrong with this administration, and this war.
War does not make peace. War makes war.
I don't worship Noam Chomsky. I said I would listen to his complaints before those of most Americans, because I think he is a very intelligent man, who has a less self-aggrandizing agenda than most others in politics. I didn't say I thought he was always right; I don't. But I'll listen to him.
Invading a country to remove a leader you don't like is illegal. Whether or not we agree on the intelligence, justice, or rightness of the war makes no difference here; it was illegal. That was the only point I was making. I fail to see why an ability to understand Hussein's feelings is bad, or why you think it puts me on his side. I understand that what happened to him must have really sucked, in his eyes; doesn't mean I don't think it should have happened.

And remember, please: war is peace, and ignorance is strength. Keep on fighting for Big Brother; maybe you'll get to be in charge of the Ministry of Love.
 
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CoffeeSaint said:
And I love that you have categorized me based on one statement I made, in one argument, on one online forum. So I'm a socialist who worships Noam Chomsky, and thus a traitor, a coward, an idiotic moron, and a hypocrite?
Tell me, is there anyone you don't hate? Please include yourself in the list of potentials.

I've never heard of Project Echelon, and based on the amount of bile in your post here, I will believe nothing you say about it. But even if you are right, saying that Bill Clinton is a bad man doesn't make all conservatives right, and all liberals wrong. That sort of sweeping generalization is exactly what is wrong with this administration, and this war.
War does not make peace. War makes war.
I don't worship Noam Chomsky. I said I would listen to his complaints before those of most Americans, because I think he is a very intelligent man, who has a less self-aggrandizing agenda than most others in politics. I didn't say I thought he was always right; I don't. But I'll listen to him.
Invading a country to remove a leader you don't like is illegal. Whether or not we agree on the intelligence, justice, or rightness of the war makes no difference here; it was illegal. That was the only point I was making. I fail to see why an ability to understand Hussein's feelings is bad, or why you think it puts me on his side. I understand that what happened to him must have really sucked, in his eyes; doesn't mean I don't think it should have happened.

And remember, please: war is peace, and ignorance is strength. Keep on fighting for Big Brother; maybe you'll get to be in charge of the Ministry of Love.
You support Noam Chomsky the socialist, defend the U.N., and you say that I work for big brother lmfao the liberals are big brother in carnate, the government in my eyes only has a few necessary function one is security, two is defense, conservatives are the antithesis to big brother the liberals think the government is the end all and be all and that it should be above the will of the people, as for war not making peace, well tell that to post WW2 Europe and Asia, rightous war is the only true catalyst for a sustainable peace and removing a tyrant like Saddam from power and giving freedom and Democracy to an oppressed people is certainly a rightous action.
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Actually that would be the liberals who want to do that the Conservatives have breached certain ediqute yet broken no laws to fight the war on terror due to a very real threat Clinton did the same thing without a credible threat that posed a clear and present danger to the U.S. he tapped phone calls of political opponents and the like for no reason what so ever. Ever hear of project Echelon?


Yes pacifists are quite idiotic morons with no understanding of reality or the very real threat of Radical-Islamo-facism because they have selective amnesia and can't remember 9-11. Pacifists are the same people who appeased Hitler and nazi Germany. You want peace buddy you damn sure better be ready to kill to get it.
Hmm... Fear the threat much???



I guess your just trying to be a real patriot in George's eyes!!!!!!!

:rofl
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Why aren't conservatives on the list it's the liberals who love the government and think that it should be the cure to all problems. Conservatives dislike the government and believe that it should have very limited functions; defense and the preservation of national security being two of the most important.
The Conservatives dislike the Government? They have controlled Congress for ten years, and the White House for five. How much smaller has our government gotten during that time?

The Republicans have called the Democrats the tax-and-spend party for as long as I can remember. But when the Conservative Republicans have control, they spend more on government and create more government debt than the Democrats ever did. It can't all be blamed on the war, either.

You are believing a lie, which has now been exposed.
 
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tryreading said:
The Conservatives dislike the Government? They have controlled Congress for ten years, and the White House for five. How much smaller has our government gotten during that time?

The Republicans have called the Democrats the tax-and-spend party for as long as I can remember. But when the Conservative Republicans have control, they spend more on government and create more government debt than the Democrats ever did. It can't all be blamed on the war, either.

You are believing a lie, which has now been exposed.
Not for lack of trying; the Republicans have made great strides in the reduction of government interference on the lives of the individual; furthermore, modern conservatives are only conservative in the sense that they support the status quo of the new deal set out by FDR; furthermore, the expansion of the roll Federal Government, increased spending, and the increase in Government intervention most certainly can be attributed to the roll that Governmet should play during war time. Like I've said the government has limited functions two of the most necessary are providing the nations defense and security.
 

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ptsdkid said:
Looks like the poll has touched a few loose nerve endings. No where did I say that I am for or against whiners and criticizers of our government. BTW, government and country are one and the same entity, afterall, we the people/taxpayers are the government. So the poll was geared to finding out who are the greatest whiners and criticizers. Sorry if aka 'Try Reading' couldn't 'Try Comprehending' that in the frst place.

If I had known ahead of time of who here would be upset that they wouldn't be an option--I would have sincerely listed them beforehand.

So it looks like I forgot to add these options to the poll:

*Fidel Castro
*Ramsey Clark
*John Kerry
*Nancy Pelosi
*Dingy Harry Reid
*FishX
*hipsterdufus
*tryreading

Please forgive me for this unintentional slip.
Government and country are not the same thing. like duh. I mean there are 300 million people (or so) on this country, are 300 million of them in the government? Do 300 million of them (including the infirm, young, and foriegn) take part in governing the country? What if the person is neither net tax-payer nor net tax recipient?

The government is a subset portion of the country, it is a PART. Albeit problmeatic part, like a bad hip or more apporpriately cancer, but a part none the less.

Furthermore, because this country or any other CLAIMS to be fulfilling the "will of the poeple" does not make it necessarily so. History, including large swathes of American History are full of the states attempts to subvert the will of some, the majority, or all of a population (outside those acting "as state").

The reality is, those who complaim most about government are of three groups 1) injured by government unduely (maybe even duely too), 2) Witness to abuse of power or injustice (as power tends to corrupt, and powerless unocrrupted people don't like corruption). or 3) the agents and actors of government itself anyway, becuase they can't rule the universe as they see fit, so they need more law, more power, more time, more support, more money, more control, more secrataries, more departments, more oganization, more oil, more oil indepenence, more more more more more, more whatever (and this fits is all agents or actors, regardless of party or position).

Incidentally, to use your flawed logic equating state and country, I would submit, then, since you say they are the same: those who criticisze the critics, are the biggest of all whiners. Since the critics prevent them from realizing their mythical utopia. So they whine that people are not "supporting the government."
 
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libertarian_knight said:
Government and country are not the same thing. like duh. I mean there are 300 million people (or so) on this country, are 300 million of them in the government? Do 300 million of them (including the infirm, young, and foriegn) take part in governing the country? What if the person is neither net tax-payer nor net tax recipient?

The government is a subset portion of the country, it is a PART. Albeit problmeatic part, like a bad hip or more apporpriately cancer, but a part none the less.

Furthermore, because this country or any other CLAIMS to be fulfilling the "will of the poeple" does not make it necessarily so. History, including large swathes of American History are full of the states attempts to subvert the will of some, the majority, or all of a population (outside those acting "as state").

The reality is, those who complaim most about government are of three groups 1) injured by government unduely (maybe even duely too), 2) Witness to abuse of power or injustice (as power tends to corrupt, and powerless unocrrupted people don't like corruption). or 3) the agents and actors of government itself anyway, becuase they can't rule the universe as they see fit, so they need more law, more power, more time, more support, more money, more control, more secrataries, more departments, more oganization, more oil, more oil indepenence, more more more more more, more whatever (and this fits is all agents or actors, regardless of party or position).

Incidentally, to use your flawed logic equating state and country, I would submit, then, since you say they are the same: those who criticisze the critics, are the biggest of all whiners. Since the critics prevent them from realizing their mythical utopia. So they whine that people are not "supporting the government."
Agreed but you must admit that the government does have some very necessary functions; such as, defense and securtiy only the federal government has the authority and the ability to wage war on a large enough scale necessary for victory and the ability to protect the citizenry against a determined enemy during war time. However, after victory and sustainable security is achieved the government should revert to its non-interventionalist policy in the lives of the individual as per the intent of the Founding Fathers. Unfortunately after WW2 this didn't happen eg Truman's great society; furthermore, it is my belief that allthough the neo-cons are not conservative in the traditional sense they are better than the alternative and I feel that once victory in the war against Islamic-Fascism has been achieved the true right will return the government to its original roll in our society.
 
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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Agreed but you must admit that the government does have some very necessary functions; such as, defense and securtiy only the federal government has the authority and the ability to wage war on a large enough scale necessary for victory. However, after victory and sustainable security is achieved the government should retain it's limited intervention in the lives of the individual.
Should government exist, it's role should be limited to defense, not foriegn wars of agression. Security should be limited to securing the Blessings of Liberty, which are in high contradiction at times to the security espoused by the statists. TO which, the US federal government, through law and court, has decided it is NOT the role of the federales or the police to protect people from harm anyway.

The federal government has be consistantly shown to disfavor rights, like people being secure in thier persons, papers, houses, and effects; or secure in their liberty to decide medical and social behavior that does not violate other's liberty; or secure in their right to criticize the state at any time; or to obtain redress of grievences due to state intervention; or secure in thier paychecks.

You are right, national governments are the only groups who can STEAL enough money to fund wars though. Of course, the only reason national governments are the only institutions with the "authority" to "provide defense and security" is because they outlaw, arrest, and convict anyone else that tries.

Not allowing people to "take the law into their own hands" is more about establishing supremacy of the state, and much less about mitigation of the adverse effects of vigilantism and "mob justice."
 
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libertarian_knight said:
Should government exist, it's role should be limited to defense, not foriegn wars of agression. Security should be limited to securing the Blessings of Liberty, which are in high contradiction at times to the security espoused by the statists. TO which, the US federal government, through law and court, has decided it is NOT the role of the federales or the police to protect people from harm anyway.

The federal government has be consistantly shown to disfavor rights, like people being secure in thier persons, papers, houses, and effects; or secure in their liberty to decide medical and social behavior that does not violate other's liberty; or secure in their right to criticize the state at any time; or to obtain redress of grievences due to state intervention; or secure in thier paychecks.

You are right, national governments are the only groups who can STEAL enough money to fund wars though. Of course, the only reason national governments are the only institutions with the "authority" to "provide defense and security" is because they outlaw, arrest, and convict anyone else that tries.

Not allowing people to "take the law into their own hands" is more about establishing supremacy of the state, and much less about mitigation of the adverse effects of vigilantism and "mob justice."
But ours is a nation built on the rule of law if you privatize the police and military then who is it that they are going to be held accountable to? The board of directors? No no, economic anarchism is one thing corporate government unrestrained by the constitution is quite another privatization of the nations security is a potential pandoras box.

While I agree that the government has limited functions it still has functions none the less, first and foremost of which are providing the security and defense of the citizenry. While I agree that the Republican neo-cons are not conservative in the traditional sense I feel that they are better than the alternative, for example after WW2 Truman should have reverted back to the limited government intended by the framers of the Constitution instead he embarked upon a ludicrous socialist experiment called the great society. I feel that once victory against Islamic-Fascism has been achieved the true right will return the government to its intended roll, however, if the Democrats regain power this will not happen. That is why I still vote for the Reps the lesser of two evils as it were.
 
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