Who were the major luminaries through history whose deeds still impact us today?

[Riveroaks]

I have studied history extensively while trying to figure out how we got here -- why are things the way they are today around us in the West (Europe and America).

Several historical luminaries thus come to mind who have had a major impact on us still to this day --

- Moses (excellence) - founded a new religion which absorbed parts of the Middle East and which lay the foundations for Christianity later on.

- Cleisthenes (excellence) - invented democracy at Athens.

- Jesus (excellence) - founded a new religion which ultimately absorbed all of Europe and America.

- Constantine (excellence) - legitimized Christianity in Roman Europe giving it a strong foothold there.

- Muhammad (excellence) - founded a new religion which absorbed all of Arabia and parts of Africa, India, and Indonesia, becoming anathema to Christianity in the 11th and 21st Centuries and to Judaism in the 20th and 21st.

- Johannes Gutenberg (excellence) - invented the printing press.

- Marin le Bourgeoys (excellence) - invented the flintlock musket.

- King George 3rd (incompetence) - allowed emigration from England to America but mismanaged America and let it slip through his fingers.

- George Washington (excellence) - led the Continental Army which defeated the British in the American Revolutionary War.

- King Louis 16th (incompetence) - mismanaged public matters in France leading to the French revolution and democratic revolution almost everywhere else.

- Abraham Lincoln (excellence) - preserved the Union of the USA.

- Ulysses Grant (mixed) - defeated the Confederate States at Vicksburg and Appomattox.

- Karl Drais (excellence) - invented the bicycle.

- Thomas Edison (excellence) - harnessed electricity.

- Henry Ford (excellence) - mass produced affordable automobiles.

- Theodor Herzl (excellence) - formed the World Zionist Organization leading to emigration from Europe into Israel and ultimately to the founding of the new Jewish State, becoming anathema to Arabs and Palestinians in the 20th and 21st Centuries.

- Orville and Wilbur Wright (excellence) - invented the airplane.

- Kaiser Wilhelm 3rd - (incompetence) tried grabbing land in France which ultimately led to the German collapse after WW1 setting the stage for WW2.

- Franklin Delano Roosevelt (mixed) - created safety nets for the poor and the start of Federal regulation of much of industry and finance and never-ending higher taxation.

- Adolf Hitler (insanity) - tried grabbing land in France and Russia unwittingly leading to the empire of Russia and 45 years of cold war after his own death.

- Hideki Tojo (insanity) - tried grabbing land in Asia unwittingly leading to the rise of China and North Korea and 60 years of cold war to this day.

- Chester Nimitz (excellence) - defeated the Japanese Navy at Midway Island.

- Dwight Eisenhower (excellence) - defeated Germany in WW2.

- Robert Oppenheimer (excellence) - led the team that developed the atomic bomb.

- Harry Truman (mixed) - rebuilt Europe and Japan but mismanaged the Russians, the Chinese, and the North Koreans.

- Edward Teller (excellence) - led the team that developed the hydrogen bomb.

- Jack Kirby / Robert Noyce (excellence) - invented the integrated circuit.

In addition to these men, numerous unsung geniuses within corporations came up with laptop computers, cellular phones, palm devices and the software to run them.

These are the ones who got us to where we are today. Almost everything around us is due to one of them or their actions.

Did I leave any off this list that anyone else thinks belongs on it? And why?

 

[tosca1]

Great scientists who'd made discoveries that changed out lives - from the way we engage in wars to the way we live and understand things, etc.,

 

[Risky Thicket]

Gautama Buddha

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Mahatma Gandhi

Maya Angelou

Dr. Gregory Goodwin Pincus - invented oral contraceptives

Mozart

Michelangelo

Aung San Suu Kyi

Marshall McLuhan

Bill Gates

W.C. Handy

Sun Tzu

Robert E. Lee

Joan of Arc

Marie Curie

Nelson Mandela

Langston Hughes

Cleopatra

Helen Keller

Barbara Jordon

Indira Gandhi

James Brown

Louis Armstrong

Earnest Hemingway

Emiliano Zapata

Alan Watts

and my personal choice, Irish writer & playwright, Brendan Behan.

 

[Riveroaks]

Gautama Buddha

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Mahatma Gandhi

Maya Angelou

Dr. Gregory Goodwin Pincus - invented oral contraceptives

Mozart

Michelangelo

Aung San Suu Kyi

Marshall McLuhan

Bill Gates

W.C. Handy

Sun Tzu

Robert E. Lee

Joan of Arc

Marie Curie

Nelson Mandela

Langston Hugh

Cleopatra

Helen Keller

Barbara Jordon

Indira Gandhi

James Brown

Louis Armstrong

Earnest Hemingway

Emiliano Zapata

Alan Watts

and my personal choice, Irish writer & playwright, Brendan Behan.

Thanks! This thread has not gotten a lot of traction yet. Hoping that it will. Everyone has heroes, whether they know it or not.

I'll discuss these one at a time from my own perspective ...

Siddhartha Gautama was a wealthy prince who was restless and decided to give up all his wealth to travel.

At some point he became enlightened and spent the rest of his life teaching others what he learned during his odyssey of poverty.

He certainly must have learned that alms to the poor are critical for anyone to go on an odyssey of poverty.

My view of Buddha is thus jaded because everyone needs to do something to support themselves or they will die.

Relying on others around you to support you seems very selfish and short sighted to me.

Hence I did not put him on my own list.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I have studied history extensively while trying to figure out how we got here -- why are things the way they are today around us in the West (Europe and America).

Several historical luminaries thus come to mind who have had a major impact on us still to this day --

- Moses (excellence) - founded a new religion which absorbed parts of the Middle East and which lay the foundations for Christianity later on.

- Cleisthenes (excellence) - invented democracy at Athens.

- Jesus (excellence) - founded a new religion which ultimately absorbed all of Europe and America.

- Constantine (excellence) - legitimized Christianity in Roman Europe giving it a strong foothold there.

- Muhammad (excellence) - founded a new religion which absorbed all of Arabia and parts of Africa, India, and Indonesia, becoming anathema to Christianity in the 11th and 21st Centuries and to Judaism in the 20th and 21st.

- Johannes Gutenberg (excellence) - invented the printing press.

- Marin le Bourgeoys (excellence) - invented the flintlock musket.

- King George 3rd (incompetence) - allowed emigration from England to America but mismanaged America and let it slip through his fingers.

- George Washington (excellence) - led the Continental Army which defeated the British in the American Revolutionary War.

- King Louis 16th (incompetence) - mismanaged public matters in France leading to the French revolution and democratic revolution almost everywhere else.

- Abraham Lincoln (excellence) - preserved the Union of the USA.

- Ulysses Grant (mixed) - defeated the Confederate States at Vicksburg and Appomattox.

- Karl Drais (excellence) - invented the bicycle.

- Thomas Edison (excellence) - harnessed electricity.

- Henry Ford (excellence) - mass produced affordable automobiles.

- Theodor Herzl (excellence) - formed the World Zionist Organization leading to emigration from Europe into Israel and ultimately to the founding of the new Jewish State, becoming anathema to Arabs and Palestinians in the 20th and 21st Centuries.

- Orville and Wilbur Wright (excellence) - invented the airplane.

- Kaiser Wilhelm 3rd - (incompetence) tried grabbing land in France which ultimately led to the German collapse after WW1 setting the stage for WW2.

- Franklin Delano Roosevelt (mixed) - created safety nets for the poor and the start of Federal regulation of much of industry and finance and never-ending higher taxation.

- Adolf Hitler (insanity) - tried grabbing land in France and Russia unwittingly leading to the empire of Russia and 45 years of cold war after his own death.

- Hideki Tojo (insanity) - tried grabbing land in Asia unwittingly leading to the rise of China and North Korea and 60 years of cold war to this day.

- Chester Nimitz (excellence) - defeated the Japanese Navy at Midway Island.

- Dwight Eisenhower (excellence) - defeated Germany in WW2.

- Robert Oppenheimer (excellence) - led the team that developed the atomic bomb.

- Harry Truman (mixed) - rebuilt Europe and Japan but mismanaged the Russians, the Chinese, and the North Koreans.

- Edward Teller (excellence) - led the team that developed the hydrogen bomb.

- Jack Kirby / Robert Noyce (excellence) - invented the integrated circuit.

In addition to these men, numerous unsung geniuses within corporations came up with laptop computers, cellular phones, palm devices and the software to run them.

These are the ones who got us to where we are today. Almost everything around us is due to one of them or their actions.

Did I leave any off this list that anyone else thinks belongs on it? And why?

I'll write more later, but one point hit me too hard to ignore... Edison did not harness electricity... Tesla is responsible for that. Edison didn't even contribute to the understanding of electricity like Franklin or Faraday. Edison was a hack and an a-hole. Perhaps a genius and visionary, yet more of a backstabbing opportunist.

He, in fact, tried to prevent Tesla's superior and more advanced technology employing rumor and false science. Rarely were the successes of Edison's vision attributable to him, but rather his team of engineers and craftsmen.

 

[Riveroaks]

... Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

...

King was a great man, yes. He saw an unjust, unfair situation and he did what he could to change it. And he paid for that with his life.

I think if you put him on your own list then you need to put LBJ next to him however, because it was really the two of them working together and through the power of their combined love for all humanity including downtrodden African Americans that Civil Rights progressed in those times of their lives.

LBJ got a lot of Americans killed in Viet Nam however, so I did not put him on my own list.

And I was born lily white -- a toe-headed blonde kid -- so I was maybe lucky not needing King's influence or help. I have had best friends in school growing up most of my childhood who were African American, so I have always failed to see any sense in prejudice or hate.

 

[Riveroaks]

I'll write more later, but one point hit me too hard to ignore... Edison did not harness electricity... Tesla is responsible for that. Edison didn't even contribute to the understanding of electricity like Franklin or Faraday. Edison was a hack and an a-hole. Perhaps a genius and visionary, yet more of a backstabbing opportunist.

He, in fact, tried to prevent Tesla's superior and more advanced technology employing rumor and false science. Rarely were the successes of Edison's vision attributable to him, but rather his team of engineers and craftsmen.

Ok thanks. Looks like Edison won the free-for-all raging around electricity then. I was not aware of the sparring going on.

 

[Riveroaks]

... Mahatma Gandhi

...

Passive resistance does not work for me.

I prefer the way George Washington addressed the issue of British occupation. And that's what I would do if in the same situation as either man.

 

[Riveroaks]

...

Robert E. Lee...

Robert E. Lee was a traitor who should have been hanged after the US Civil War.

He was responsible for the deaths of more Americans than any other person in history.

One of the Union generals who defeated Lee at Gettysburg came from my dad's home town of Rock Island Illinois. That was Brigadier General John Buford. I am proud of them both. Both were soldiers in the U.S. Army their whole lives long.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Ok thanks. Looks like Edison won the free-for-all raging around electricity then. I was not aware of the sparring going on.

Aside from the lightbulb, and just barely, none of Edison's tech is still in use. Tesla on the other hand, his inventions continue to power, move and light the world.

AC Power transmission
Three phase AC motors and generators
Radio
Radio controlled vehicles
He even predicted the smartphone with startling clarity.

Edison and his backers (J P Morgan) were consummate promoters (pre-PR).. Tesla could have cared less.

 

[Risky Thicket]

That reminds me that I didn't include the Dalai Lama in my list and I should have.

LBJ is an interesting person in recent history. As you point out, LBJ's contribution to civil rights cannot be ignored but then there is Vietnam.

Dr. King was a great man. All of us have benefited from his leadership and his philosophy of non-violence. It is difficult to imagine the pressure King experienced, from all sides. He had to know as well that his life was in great jeopardy. Yet, he continued on. He refused to give in to calls for reciprocal violence. In his place how many of us could have done what he did? But he remained true to his convictions and as a result progress was made. His experience is a lesson to everyone. Perhaps if he had lived discrimination and bigotry would be much less than it is today.

 

[Risky Thicket]

Robert E. Lee was a traitor who should have been hanged after the US Civil War.

He was responsible for the deaths of more Americans than any other person in history.

One of the Union generals who defeated Lee at Gettysburg came from my dad's home town of Rock Island Illinois. That was Brigadier General John Buford. I am proud of them both. Both were soldiers in the U.S. Army their whole lives long.

I have no desire to re-fight the war on DP. There are threads for that if you are so inclined.

Lee was a great general who is known the world over. Lee's leadership and his exemplary character were and are respected throughout the United States and beyond. I doubt any military leader in US history was more loved than "Marse Robert". Indeed Grant held Lee in great regard during and after the war.

 

[Risky Thicket]

Passive resistance does not work for me.

I prefer the way George Washington addressed the issue of British occupation. And that's what I would do if in the same situation as either man.

Flesh that out then if you would in reference to India and how and why it would have worked better.

 

[Riveroaks]

I have no desire to re-fight the war on DP. There are threads for that if you are so inclined.

Lee was a great general who is known the world over. Lee's leadership and his exemplary character were and are respected throughout the United States and beyond. I doubt any military leader in US history was more loved than "Marse Robert". Indeed Grant held Lee in great regard during and after the war.

Yup, it was Grant who let Lee, Longstreet, and Davis off the hook.

All 3 of these confederates should have hang together on the same day on the same gallows.

They were traitors. The worst traitors in American history.

Grant did not have the stomach for it.

Grant was more preoccupied with Reconstruction. ... And alcohol.

Note that Grant is definitely on my list of the great ones, but with a mixed review.

 

[Riveroaks]

Flesh that out then if you would in reference to India and how and why it would have worked better.

Well, if you want to lead a rebellion, then you need to get support.

Your enemy's enemy is your friend in that case.

Your new friend will want a quid pro quo of course, but that is not unreasonable.

Russia is a very good friend if you need one.

 

[Riveroaks]

That reminds me that I didn't include the Dalai Lama in my list and I should have.

LBJ is an interesting person in recent history. As you point out, LBJ's contribution to civil rights cannot be ignored but then there is Vietnam.

Dr. King was a great man. All of us have benefited from his leadership and his philosophy of non-violence. It is difficult to imagine the pressure King experienced, from all sides. He had to know as well that his life was in great jeopardy. Yet, he continued on. He refused to give in to calls for reciprocal violence. In his place how many of us could have done what he did? But he remained true to his convictions and as a result progress was made. His experience is a lesson to everyone. Perhaps if he had lived discrimination and bigotry would be much less than it is today.

I don't pretend to be the equal of King.

 

[Risky Thicket]

I have no desire to re-fight the war on DP. There are threads for that if you are so inclined.

Review the above comments.

Yup, it was Grant who let Lee, Longstreet, and Davis off the hook.

All 3 of these confederates should have hang together on the same day on the same gallows.

They were traitors. The worst traitors in American history.

Grant did not have the stomach for it.

Grant was more preoccupied with Reconstruction. ... And alcohol.

Note that Grant is definitely on my list of the great ones, but with a mixed review.

 

[Riveroaks]

Review the above comments.

Thank you for helping our readers to understand why Grant gets mixed reviews, although he was indeed truly great.

 

[Risky Thicket]

Well, if you want to lead a rebellion, then you need to get support.

Your enemy's enemy is your friend in that case.

Your new friend will want a quid pro quo of course, but that is not unreasonable.

Russia is a very good friend if you need one.

Uh, OK, but you stated:

Passive resistance does not work for me.

I prefer the way George Washington addressed the issue of British occupation. And that's what I would do if in the same situation as either man.

I responded by asking how you would have done it in India and why it would have worked better: "Flesh that out then if you would in reference to India and how and why it would have worked better." And you pithy and rather tiny answer is a reference to involving Russia. :roll:

I was looking for a great deal more depth and reason. Perhaps I am asking too much.

 

[Riveroaks]

Uh, OK, but you stated:

I responded by asking how you would have done it in India and why it would have worked better: "Flesh that out then if you would in reference to India and how and why it would have worked better." And you pithy and rather tiny answer is a reference to involving Russia. :roll:

I was looking for a great deal more depth and reason. Perhaps I am asking too much.

I prefer active aggressiveness instead of passive resistance.

I would have gone to Russia and got military aid, armed the Indians, and driven the British out like the Americans and the Israelis did.

Not like the Canadians and Auzzies were willing to wait forever for.

 

[Risky Thicket]

I prefer active aggressiveness instead of passive resistance.

I would have gone to Russia and got military aid, armed the Indians, and driven the British out like the Americans and the Israelis did.

Not like the Canadians and Auzzies were willing to wait forever for.

Brilliant! And Russia would have jumped on that wagon huh? What leads you to think that? And as I asked earlier, WHY would your solution have been the better one?

Right, the situations in the colonies and in Israel were the same as the situation in India. :roll:

 

[Riveroaks]

Brilliant! And Russia would have jumped on that wagon huh? What leads you to think that? And as I asked earlier, WHY would your solution have been the better one?

Right, the situations in the colonies and in Israel were the same as the situation in India. :roll:

There is always going to be somebody somewhere in charge of a nation who will embrace and help your cause.

Gandhi simply did not understand this, or else he would have fought like a man and not like a woman.

 

[Risky Thicket]

There is always going to be somebody somewhere in charge of a nation who will embrace and help your cause.

Gandhi simply did not understand this, or else he would have fought like a man and not like a woman.

Yeah, Gandhi was a clueless *****. No balls that guy. King, either and the Dalai Lama is a feckin wimp. Jesus was world class sissy and a mama's boy. Look at what happens when you're known as the Prince of Peace. If Jesus had only borrowed money and arms from Russia so that he could raise an army and smite a couple of hundred thousand people he'd probably still be around today. What this world needs is more Dick Cheneys and less religious pacifists, right?

So, you got your education in Illinois? Did your school system buy their history books from a distributor in Wisconsin or Georgia or Texas?

 

[Riveroaks]

Yeah, Gandhi was a clueless *****. No balls that guy. King, either and the Dalai Lama is a feckin wimp. Jesus was world class sissy and a mama's boy. Look at what happens when you're known as the Prince of Peace. If Jesus had only borrowed money and arms from Russia so that he could raise an army and smite a couple of hundred thousand people he'd probably still be around today. What this world needs is more Dick Cheneys and less religious pacifists, right?

So, you got your education in Illinois? Did your school system buy their history books from a distributor in Wisconsin or Georgia or Texas?

I think it is immoral to satirize King. He gave his life for what he believed in -- his fellow African Americans.

I'm an Army brat remember -- went to school all over the world. Not Illinois.

 

[Chagos]

Martin Luther (not King, the original one).