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Who remembers the watergate scandal? Who remembers the Iran/contra scandal?

hanger4

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It had nothing to do with his work as president. Strictly a political with hunt.
Correct, but it had everything to with an attempt to deny a fair trial to a US citizen by a sitting President.
 

j brown's body

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Linda Tripp presented the evidence to Starr, Starr took that evidence to the 3 judge panel overseeing Starr's investigation, they expanded Starr's mandate.

First they replaced Fisk with Starr because Fiske wasn't aggressive enough for Republicans and then they widened Starr's mandate because they couldn't pin anything on him with Whitewater.

Most Americans knew it was a hit job Clinton emerged from it more popular and the GOP House took a hit.
 

j brown's body

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Still pushing conspiracy theories.

Mueller

1. Trump was receptive to a Campaign national security adviser’s (George Papadopoulos) pursuit of a back channel to Putin.
2. Kremlin operatives provided the Campaign a preview of the Russian plan to distribute stolen emails.
3. The Trump Campaign chairman and deputy chairman (Paul Manafort and Rick Gates) knowingly shared internal polling data and information on battleground states with a Russian spy; and the Campaign chairman worked with the Russian spy on a pro-Russia “peace” plan for Ukraine.
4. The Trump Campaign chairman periodically shared internal polling data with the Russian spy with the expectation it would be shared with Putin-linked oligarch, Oleg Deripaska.
5. Trump Campaign chairman Manafort expected Trump’s winning the presidency would mean Deripaska would want to use Manafort to advance
Deripaska’s interests in the United States and elsewhere.
6. Trump Tower meeting: (1) On receiving an email offering derogatory information on Clinton coming from a Russian government official, Donald Trump Jr. “appears to have accepted that offer;” (2) members of the Campaign discussed the Trump Tower meeting beforehand; (3) Donald Trump Jr. told the Russians during the meeting that Trump could revisit the issue of the Magnitsky Act if elected.
7. A Trump Campaign official told the Special Counsel he “felt obliged to object” to a GOP Platform change on Ukraine because it contradicted Trump’s wishes; however, the investigation did not establish that Gordon was directed by Trump.
8. Russian military hackers may have followed Trump’s July 27, 2016 public statement “Russia if you’re listening …” within hours by targeting Clinton’s personal office for the first time.
9. Trump requested campaign affiliates to get Clinton’s emails, which resulted in an individual apparently acting in coordination with the Campaign claiming to have successfully contacted Russian hackers.
10. The Trump Campaign—and Trump personally—appeared to have advanced knowledge of future WikiLeaks releases.
11. The Trump Campaign coordinated campaign-related public communications based on future WikiLeaks releases.
12. Michael Cohen, on behalf of the Trump Organization, brokered a secret deal for a Trump Tower Moscow project directly involving Putin’s inner circle, at least until June 2016.
13. During the presidential transition, Jared Kushner and Eric Prince engaged in secret back channel communications with Russian agents. (1) Kushner suggested to the Russian Ambassador that they use a secure communication line from within the Russian Embassy to speak with Russian Generals; and (2) Prince and Kushner’s friend Rick Gerson conducted secret back channel meetings with a Putin agent to develop a plan for U.S.-Russian relations.
14. During the presidential transition, in coordination with other members of the Transition Team, Michael Flynn spoke with the Russian Ambassador to prevent a tit for tat Russian response to the Obama administration’s imposition of sanctions for election interference; the Russians agreed not to retaliate saying they wanted a good relationship with the incoming administration.
 

j brown's body

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Watergate and Iran-Contra are nothing next to Trump's effort to overturn the election.

And then there's Ukraine

Screenshot_20220512-210442_Brave.jpg
 

hanger4

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First they replaced Fisk with Starr because Fiske wasn't aggressive enough for Republicans and then they widened Starr's mandate because they couldn't pin anything on him with Whitewater.

Most Americans knew it was a hit job Clinton emerged from it more popular and the GOP House took a hit.
You right j brown's body, as a prosecutor one should just ignore new evidence in a civil suit that's presented to you.
"The investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities"

Straight from the Mueller report.
 

j brown's body

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You right j brown's body, as a prosecutor one should just ignore new evidence in a civil suit that's presented to you.

"The investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities"

Straight from the Mueller report.

Clinton was punished by the court. Impeachment was absurd. Like I said, Americans saw it for what it was

That is hardly an exoneration from Mueller. Your assertion that Trump wasn't involved with Russians is clearly incorrect.

Speaking of widening probes:

 
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Roadvirus

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answer, No, they are FAR WORSE today!!!!

Politics2.jpg
 

bongsaway

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Linda Tripp presented the evidence to Starr, Starr took that evidence to the 3 judge panel overseeing Starr's investigation, they expanded Starr's mandate.
So again, in essence clinton was impeached for lying about a blow job. Couldn't get him on the original charge, let's look for something else but his impeachment wasn't political. Uh huh, sure.
 

hanger4

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Clinton was punished by the court. Impeachment was absurd. Like I said, Americans saw it for what it was

That is hardly an exoneration from Mueller. Your assertion that Trump wasn't involved with Russians is clearly incorrect.

Speaking of widening probes:

Yup, the court punished BC for perjury and suborning perjury. And Americans saw it as the left media spun it.

My assertion was straight from the Mueller report, no conspiracy, no coordination.
 

hanger4

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So again, in essence clinton was impeached for lying about a blow job. Couldn't get him on the original charge, let's look for something else but his impeachment wasn't political. Uh huh, sure.
Fascinating, your just fine with a President perjuring himself and suborning perjury in an attempt to deny a US citizen a fair trial. How sad for you.
 

Craig234

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Bill Clinton was fined 90K and law license revoked for 5 years and settled out of court to the tune 250k for an attempt to deny a fair trial to US citizen. And yes the impeachment trial was not guilty, Democrats don't believe that perjury and suborning perjury by a President is grounds for removal, but he was guilty.
What's are all those details you're babbling about? Let me quote you - "Perjury and suborning of perjury isn't complicated. " So, it's simple. He was not convicted of perjury. You're the one who objected to anything more complicated and insisted it's that simple. He was not guilty of perjury, period. He wasn't convicted of it in the impeachment OR in court or even charged with it. You said it's simple. Not guilty.
 

Craig234

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Yup, the court punished BC for perjury and suborning perjury.

Someone said, "Perjury and suborning of perjury isn't complicated. " Was he convicted of perjury? Yes or no. That's it, no he wasn't. If he was "punished for perjury", then he was convicted of perjury. That's how 'punishment for a crime' works - conviction, sentence. You said it's not more complicated than that, guilty of perjury or not guilty of perjury. He was not guilty.
 

Craig234

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Fascinating, your just fine with a President perjuring himself and suborning perjury in an attempt to deny a US citizen a fair trial. How sad for you.
If Clinton was guilty of perjury as you claim, why wasn't he charged with perjury and convicted of it? Babbling about unfair and corrupt court and media and whatever in 3.. 2..
 

iguanaman

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Are today's republicans really just as corrupt as republicans from years gone by? I've been watching a few documentaries about both of them recently and the one thing that stands out, the lying. Before trump came along Reagan was the fire breathing mad cowboy out to destroy communism, that was his public face. Nixon too was going to put communism in its place until he went off the deep end seeing enemies everywhere, which oddly enough seems to have turned into a gop tradition. Anyway to keep the string intact W lied us into a war with Iraq over WMD's that didn't exist and yet republican voters over the years just keep voting republican even after finding out their leadership lies to them on huge scales. Why? How do you make these things ok in your minds?
Those "scandals" are small potatoes in the new Trump party. They are in it for the money and there is not even any attempt to hide it anymore. The morons that make up the "base" think that makes them smart and besides "owning the libs" is all they care about anyway. Look at what Desantis is doing here in Florida.
 

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I remember Ken Starr's semen trials. That was good for a few laughs.

I was born the year Watergate happened so can't say I remember it, but as someone posted earlier, everyone I talked to who lived through that time recalls stopping whatever they were doing and watching the hearings.

It seems like everyone political scandal ever since has been in Watergate's shadow. America lost its political virginity with Watergate. We've been jaded ever since and probably just assume the whole system is corrupt.

I remember a time when having sex with someone other than his wife or snorting coke was the end of one's presidential ambitions. Now? Shit, it probably builds street cred, lol. In 2040, if we still have presidential elections then, we'll probably have a candidate admitting to sexual battery representing one party and a convicted murderer in the other.
 

Outlook

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Are today's republicans really just as corrupt as republicans from years gone by? I've been watching a few documentaries about both of them recently and the one thing that stands out, the lying. Before trump came along Reagan was the fire breathing mad cowboy out to destroy communism, that was his public face. Nixon too was going to put communism in its place until he went off the deep end seeing enemies everywhere, which oddly enough seems to have turned into a gop tradition. Anyway to keep the string intact W lied us into a war with Iraq over WMD's that didn't exist and yet republican voters over the years just keep voting republican even after finding out their leadership lies to them on huge scales. Why? How do you make these things ok in your minds?
People must be really dumb to think republicans and democrats are different. All these politicians are corrupt. You want a link? They are all the same. They made their millions the same way.

Did you hook anything with this dumb thread. You talk about corrupt republicans during a time when Max Waters is the most corrupt politician in Washington and half of the politicians are making millions buying and selling stock based on decisions they make.

Does anyone remember the Johnson lies about Vietnam? What about the Clinton Scandals? The IRS targeting scandal? The ATF gunwalking scandal?
Give it a break.
 

Bear5131

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What's it like to labor under so many illusions?

Got to love opinions from politifact

From your own link..


In a 2008 interview on "The Neal Boortz Show," fact-checker Glenn Kessler reports, Zeifman was asked directly if he fired her. "Well, let me put it this way," he said. "I terminated her, along with some other staff members who were — we no longer needed, and advised her that I would not — could not recommend her for further positions."
 

Craig234

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Got to love opinions from politifact

From your own link..

In a 2008 interview on "The Neal Boortz Show," fact-checker Glenn Kessler reports, Zeifman was asked directly if he fired her. "Well, let me put it this way," he said. "I terminated her, along with some other staff members who were — we no longer needed, and advised her that I would not — could not recommend her for further positions."

Snopes is a good source, and debunks Zeifman's claims and puts him in a pretty bad light. Being on the Neal Boortz show alone doesn't look good.

 

Atomic Kid

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Correct, but it had everything to with an attempt to deny a fair trial to a US citizen by a sitting President.
BS it did. Paula Jones lawsuit was dismissed by the court before trial for failure to prove any damages, and the Monica Lewinsky testimony/evidence presented in that case was ruled as being immaterial to the case at hand. Not to mention Starr, who was later disgraced by his own hypocrisy for playing a role in covering up the Baylor Football sex scandal, considering how harshly he stood against Clinton in regards to Clinton's scandal. In Trump's first impeachment, Starr gave testimony that contradicted the various arguments he used in 1998 to justify Clinton's impeachment. In defending Trump. Starr also claimed in that testimony that he was wrong to have called for impeachment against Clinton for abuse of executive privilege and his alleged efforts to obstruct Congress. While also stating that the House Judiciary Committee was right in 1998 to have rejected one of the planks for impeachment he had advocated for. Which makes one wonder why the hell would he flip-flop so wildly on the question of abuse of executive privilege, and Clinton's alleged efforts to obstruct Congress? Why was it in Starr's mind okay for a sitting President to do so in 2020, but not back in 1998?
 

Atomic Kid

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Still pushing conspiracy theories.
Are they really conspiracy theories? Consider how Trump emerged from a private meeting with Putin with no Administration or State Dept. personnel allowed to go in with them later emerged from it on their way to making a joint press conference appearance in Helsinki looking all the world like a whipped puppy dog who just got read the riot act by Putin as in don't ever forget that I have ahold you by the '*****' hairs.
Whipped puppy dog Trump.jpg

whipped puppy Trump 2.jpg

Where he threw US Intelligence under the bus in deference to Putin?
 

Geoist

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Are today's republicans really just as corrupt as republicans from years gone by? I've been watching a few documentaries about both of them recently and the one thing that stands out, the lying. Before trump came along Reagan was the fire breathing mad cowboy out to destroy communism, that was his public face. Nixon too was going to put communism in its place until he went off the deep end seeing enemies everywhere, which oddly enough seems to have turned into a gop tradition. Anyway to keep the string intact W lied us into a war with Iraq over WMD's that didn't exist and yet republican voters over the years just keep voting republican even after finding out their leadership lies to them on huge scales. Why? How do you make these things ok in your minds?

56-Years-Of-Presidencies-2.jpg


^And it doesn't even include the Trump Administration...
 

Geoist

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We were on a vacation in Chesapeake area of Maryland summer of 1987. It got so hot the chickens all died. We were pretty much confined to the hotel AC for several days, which coincided with the Iran/Contra hearings. We watched them all day long.
I remember being shocked on our way back home to see people wearing shirts celebrating Oliver North. My introduction to right wing politics.

I was 1 at that time but ever since I read about it at 18 it still astounds me how right-wingers could defend that guy. There are just so many aspects to that scandal that go against supposed conservative 'ethics.' It's one example of many that convinced me conservatives don't care about ethics. They just care about their team winning.
 
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