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Who remembers the watergate scandal? Who remembers the Iran/contra scandal?

Roadvirus said:
Nixon was caught in the middle because he supported the thing! The Saturday Night Massacre was what really doomed him.
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What really doomed him was when White House Counsel John Dean began to correctly suspect that he was being set up to be the Watergate scapegoat by Nixon's inner circle when Nixon requested him to produce a report about everything he knew about the Watergate matter. Even invited him to take a retreat at Camp David to do so. Dean went to Camp David but purposely did not complete his report. Shortly afterwards Dean hired a lawyer and began his cooperation with the Watergate investigators and didn't disclose this conflict to Nixon until some time later. Dean provided much information to the prosecutors about coverup efforts by the President and members of his inner circle, including AG Mitchell. Up to that point the prosecutors were pretty much focusing solely on the burglary aspect of the case and the events preceding it. Dean was the first Nixon Administration official to directly link Nixon to the burglary and the coverup. But he only had his meeting notes to buttress his case and Nixon could still nonetheless make it a case of his word against Dean's Dean however had strong suspicions that Nixon was recording conversations in the White House. But he didn't know this for certain. So he tipped the Watergate prosecutors to question witnesses brought before them along this line. And when they asked questions along that line of Alexander Butterfield, he revealed the existence of a secret taping system within the White House. Which subsequently led to the issuing of a subpoena for the tapes produced by that taping system. That was the real beginning of end of the Nixon Presidency.
 
Ah yes, Watergate! Where unethical Hillary Clinton got fired from the legal team.
 
Craig234 said:
Couple points. First, I think rap music has done more harm to music than anything before.

Second, I think the 1970's were the best decade for music in history, albeit competing with the late 60's, so lump them.

You can't really summarize what you tried IMO like that.

But, you forgot some of the terrible fashion issues, including the very wide ties IIRC.
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A few words in defense of rap. I dont like it as an art form, much as I might not like the harpsichord. But that youth are composing poetry is a positive, reminds me of the 1950s do-wop phenomenon, urban kids making up lyrics. Despite my distaste for it, was with a young friend in my car when a number came on. I was amazed. Said, that’s great, who is it? Tupac.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
Nixon was a lying, vindictive pos that got hung by his own recordings.

Reagan, who was already showing signs of Alzheimer’s, was likely ignorant of much, but was at least aware of discussions about trading arms for hostages.

Oliver North believed in what he did, but factually, was no hero for his involvement.

There was never an issue of “collusion”. As Mueller made clear in his report, there is no legal statute regarding collusion.
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No one was ever charged with collusion. Collusion was never investigated. Collusion was a word constantly repeated by Trump and the right to obscure the issue.
RaleBulgarian said:
Conspiracy was the matter investigated, and on that issue Mueller deemed the 100+ meetings between Tramp campaign members/advisors investigated by his team did not reveal information supporting any charges.
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Nonsense. "As set forth in the report, after the investigation, if we had confidence that the president did not clearly commit a crime, we would have said so," he [Mueller] told reporters at the Justice Department Wednesday.
RaleBulgarian said:
And regarding Jr’s Trump Tower meeting with former Russian government lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskay, Mueller determined that Jr’s ignorance of the law excuse wouldn’t be worth the time/resources it would take to prosecute.
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Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
RaleBulgarian said:
Take your own advice.
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A few minutes ago I was watching Dean's testimony (it's over 6 hours and that's part 1, I watched a little), and started a book tour talk by him about a Watergate book.
 
Craig234 said:
Let's remember what Starr's mandate really was: as a political attack dog to find ANY attacks on Clinton.

First, the Republicans looked for the most partisan attack dog they could find, and set him loose to find attacks on Clinton. He spend the money, did the searches, and found nothing, and said so.

So, the Republicans just repeated the process, the next time picking Starr and making his job clear to him. Find attacks.

IIRC, it was an environment where Richard Mellon Scaife put up a $50 million fun to pay for 'dirt' on Clinton. So 'investigators' could travel the back swamps of Arkansas offering people cash to say they saw Clinton sell cocaine, or whatever.

There was a whole army that called themselves the elves, of private lawyers who tried to assist with attacks on Clinton - they are the ones who got wind of Linda Tripp and persuaded her to betray Monica Lewinski. Ya, Clinton behaved badly. It wasn't impeachable, and justice was done when the abuse of power impeachment backfired on Republicans - and cost them their own new Speaker of the House when HIS actions were uncovered.
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So perjury and suborning perjury before a Grand Jury by the highest law officer in the US isn't impeachable ?? How sad for you.
 
hanger4 said:
So perjury and suborning perjury before a Grand Jury by the highest law officer in the US isn't impeachable ?? How sad for you.
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It's a more complicated than you understand.
 
Craig234 said:
It's a more complicated than you understand.
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Perjury and suborning of perjury isn't complicated. Lying and getting others to lie for you before a Grand Jury isn't complicated.
 
hanger4 said:
Perjury and suborning of perjury isn't complicated. Lying and getting others to lie for you before a Grand Jury isn't complicated.
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Since you can't understand it - he wasn't convicted of perjury. So by your position, it's simple, he wasn't guilty.
 
hanger4 said:
Ken Star

Ken Starr didn't exceed his mandate, new evidence came to him from Linda Tripp concerning the possibility B Clinton perjured himself before the Grand Jury in the Paula Jones sexual harassment suit. He took that evidence before the 3 judge panel that oversaw his investigations, they expanded his mandate.
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Did the 'new' evidence have anything to do with whitewater which is why the R's started the impeachment process in the first place? Hell no, it had to do with a blow job and tripp was recording lewinsky without her knowledge or consent. In my opinion, tripp was a plant.
 
hanger4 said:
Perjury and suborning of perjury isn't complicated. Lying and getting others to lie for you before a Grand Jury isn't complicated.
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It had nothing to do with his work as president. Strictly a political with hunt.
 
jcgriff2 said:
Watergate was blown way out of proportion and caught Nixon in the middle, so he did the right thing and resigned.

Iran-Contra was a whole different ballgame as President Reagan undoubtedly knew nothing about the details (plausible deniability). Blame Casey and to a much lesser extent - Oliver North, a true American hero, if you need a scapegoat.

And what about the conspiracy by the democrats re: Trump and Russian collusion hoax? Nothing tops that farce. Dems need to stop lying all of the time.
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Spoken like a true Trumper! Kudos.
No president in history was so picked on by the big bad media and the leftists.

What a joke.
 
Loulit01 said:
No one was ever charged with collusion. Collusion was never investigated. Collusion was a word constantly repeated by Trump and the right to obscure the issue.
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I was addressing Watergate/Nixon, not the Mueller investigation.
Loulit01 said:
Nonsense. "As set forth in the report, after the investigation, if we had confidence that the president did not clearly commit a crime, we would have said so," he [Mueller] told reporters at the Justice Department Wednesday.
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I was addressing concerns of possible conspiracy between members of Trump campaign members/advisors and Russians, not the 10 possible instances of Trump obstructing Mueller’s investigation.
Loulit01 said:
Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
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True. Proving that Jr knew what he did was illegal wasn’t possible though, and AG Barr chose not prosecute.
 
bongsaway said:
Did the 'new' evidence have anything to do with whitewater which is why the R's started the impeachment process in the first place? Hell no, it had to do with a blow job and tripp was recording lewinsky without her knowledge or consent. In my opinion, tripp was a plant.
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R's started the special investigator over Whitewater, but the impeachment over Clinton deceiving the court about sex. I don't think Tripp was a plant, I think Republicans 'got lucky' and 'the elves' I mentioned manipulated her when they discovered her.
 
bongsaway said:
Are today's republicans really just as corrupt as republicans from years gone by? I've been watching a few documentaries about both of them recently and the one thing that stands out, the lying. Before trump came along Reagan was the fire breathing mad cowboy out to destroy communism, that was his public face. Nixon too was going to put communism in its place until he went off the deep end seeing enemies everywhere, which oddly enough seems to have turned into a gop tradition. Anyway to keep the string intact W lied us into a war with Iraq over WMD's that didn't exist and yet republican voters over the years just keep voting republican even after finding out their leadership lies to them on huge scales. Why? How do you make these things ok in your minds?
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answer, No, they are FAR WORSE today!!!!
 
Craig234 said:
Since you can't understand it - he wasn't convicted of perjury. So by your position, it's simple, he wasn't guilty.
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Bill Clinton was fined 90K and law license revoked for 5 years and settled out of court to the tune 250k for an attempt to deny a fair trial to US citizen. And yes the impeachment trial was not guilty, Democrats don't believe that perjury and suborning perjury by a President is grounds for removal, but he was guilty.
 
bongsaway said:
Did the 'new' evidence have anything to do with whitewater which is why the R's started the impeachment process in the first place? Hell no, it had to do with a blow job and tripp was recording lewinsky without her knowledge or consent. In my opinion, tripp was a plant.
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Linda Tripp presented the evidence to Starr, Starr took that evidence to the 3 judge panel overseeing Starr's investigation, they expanded Starr's mandate.
 
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