Who Lost Turkey?

[sanman]

Erdogan will probably set himself up as President-for-Life, and totally pack the govt with his own loyalists. He can now certainly pack the military brass with his own loyalists, even more than before.

Then you have that "Republic of Cyprus" thingy hanging around since 1974/1983.

So that's another thing - anybody see him sucker-punching the Greeks with a war at some point, to gain even more popularity at home?

 

[Hawkeye10]

There's only so much any nation can, and should, do with the internal politics of another nation.

Who Lost Turkey? The Turks did. They did it to themselves. It'll be a long and bloody period before it switches back, if it ever does.

Along the way, there'll be the inevitable decent into a medieval existence for the population and a resurgence of all the pestilence and preventable medical deaths that comes with that standard of living, and lastly, a national economy to match. All we have to do is look at the ISIS areas of control for what's going to happen to Turkey going forward (or really, significantly going backwards for Turkey).

They had their eye on the prize.....joining Europe, and Europe said they wanted them... A LOT.
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THen it all fell apart.

DID Europe want them for reals?

I need to see research on this before I make up my mind here on where the blame belongs.

I do however know that the Germans I knew, and I knew a few, did not like the Turks....like AT ALL.

 

[Andalublue]

The coup attempt undermines Turkey's political stability and that outcome could weaken its ability to join in the near-term.

Turkey is decades away from fulfilling accession criteria and is heading in the wrong direction at pace. Under Erdoğan the chances of Turkey entering the EU are barely greater than zero. Thing is, these days the Turks I speak to are supremely unconcerned about joining the EU. The attitude I pick up is: "They don't want us, we don't need them."

 

[Andalublue]

Sorry I misspoke. The correct timeline for western support would have occurred after WWII not WWI, with western attempts to curtail the expansion of Soviet Russia by including Turkey in NATO. Thanks for the correction.

No problem.

 

[Sweden]

I believe Brexit creates both opportunities and risks for Turkish entry. If Brexit leads the EU to develop a more flexible policy framework, that outcome could increase Turkey's prospects of joining. If, on the other hand, Brexit leads the EU to intensify political integration efforts, which would narrow the overall focus, that could make it more difficult for Turkey to join. I don't think the direction of EU policy is very clear on which direction the EU will go. In part, that might depend on how Brexit negotiations proceed.

The coup attempt undermines Turkey's political stability and that outcome could weaken its ability to join in the near-term.

Turkey is heading towards Islamic absolutism and the end of any semblance of democracy. I see no prospect of Turkey being admitted to the EU for the foreseeable future; Brexit and post-Brexit devlopements have no relevance.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Nobody really lost Turkey in the context of political moves.

There is a 98% Muslim ideology inside the country.

 

[Sweden]

Tom Gallagher: EU is naïve about bombastic, Islamist Erdogan - The Conservative Woman

This excellent article by Gallagher is well worth a read by anyone interested in what is happening in Turkey.

 

[sanman]

 

[Andalublue]

Nobody really lost Turkey in the context of political moves.

There is a 98% Muslim ideology inside the country.

Do you mean 98% of Turks were born into the Islamic faith? Or do you mean that 98% profess Islamism, y'know, the political ideology that was spawned by Wahhabi Islamic thought? Care to elucidate exactly what you mean?

 

[notquiteright]

I always have to smile at the simple minded question of who lost any country...

As if the 'loss' happens overnight.

'Who lost China?' was the question used by Republicans to bury their past of isolationism in the face of Nazi Germany's rise to power.

The better question is WHAT lost any particular country. For the most part is is either short term gain policy or long term neglect. Iran was a slow burn to 'loss' after we overthrew a democratically elected government to punish any attempt to renegotiate oil royalty deal with a 'free world' power. Turkey a long period of neglect. the original 'who lost'- China was a classic case of backing a corrupt government which had little popular support. Repeated in the rest of SE Asia.

But I guess some want to blame one guy rather than accept our hubris and self centered policies create the bed we have to sleep in... eace

 

[RetiredUSN]

Do you mean 98% of Turks were born into the Islamic faith? Or do you mean that 98% profess Islamism, y'know, the political ideology that was spawned by Wahhabi Islamic thought? Care to elucidate exactly what you mean?

The only thing left standing from Muslim control on law of the land was the military. Now the military is weakened. The secular form of government will not stand very much longer as it is fast becoming tyrannical, and will slowly creep towards total Sharia .

 

[Donc]

The only thing left standing from Muslim control on law of the land was the military. Now the military is weakened. The secular form of government will not stand very much longer as it is fast becoming tyrannical, and will slowly creep towards total Sharia .

Peer into your crystal ball, SEE for the denizens of DP what will replace the Constitution that was finalized in 1924 with the demise of the Ottoman Empire, which was still in existence at that time. Or if something along the lines of issis is the future for Turkey, our only ally that we can trust in that neck of the woods.:2wave:

 

[Rogue Valley]

The toll so far in Erdogan's post-coup purges...

103 high ranking (Gen/Adm)military officers
6,000 military personal
9,000 police officers
3,000 judges
8,777 Interior Ministry workers
1,500 staff in the Finance Ministry
1,577 university deans
21,000 teachers
257 people working in the Prime Minister's office
24 radio and TV channels had their broadcast license revoked

By my ciphering that is 50,000+ for a clumsy coup that had at the most 1,000 participants. A ratio of 50:1. The coup was attempted less than 1 week ago. IMO, purge-lists had already existed and Erdogan/AKP only needed an event/excuse to implement the purge operation. Only Erdogan/AKP gained from this. It seems to me that either this was an internal false-flag operation, or Erdogan/AKP were forewarned of the coup and planned accordingly.

 

[venetian]

It looks like no one is mentioning the fact that the coup attempt was led by the followers of a religious cult whose aim is the Muslim domination of the world. Therefore, it is very naive to think that this was a re-secularization attempt by the once-secular army. This cult had long planned to infiltrate the government bureaucracy by brainwashing young, intelligent kids from poor conservative families. They created a highly organized, private and secret scheme that starts from middle schools. Education is at the epicenter of the movement, which also happens to have hundreds of schools right here in the USA. There is much to write about this, but I will leave it to your curious, capable self-research skills.

The AKP loved this movement. They loved it because they were eliminating their archenemy, the secularists, in the government and especially in the military. For AKP, the joy of seeing American kids sing and dance Turkish songs at their so-called Annual Turkish Olympics was enough reason to support this cult by itself, and as a bonus, they were also conveniently purging secularists and replacing them with their blind followers. I hope this answers why AKP is so fast in arresting the coup related factions including school teachers. Because, it was the AKP that let it happen in the first place only until things went sour... Another research topic for the curious to figure out why things went sour.

So, in summary, we "lost' Turkey by turning a blind eye to its education system many decades ago. Choosing the easy path that is through military interventions which the US openly supported only strengthened these people. Turks lost their country by not investing in its education. Turks thought removing head scarves will make the country secular and prosperous. It only fueled anger and created more shadowy factions that went so far to make their wives wear two piece bikinis so that other officers will not know they are indeed the followers of the religious cult.

These are the facts. Turkey had been gone for good decades ago. The west is to blame itself for not having the slightest clue as to what was happening. Maybe, it was actually convenient for some...

 

[Lord of Planar]

After Iran fell to Khomeini's revolution, concerned voices among American policy analysts asked "Who Lost Iran?" The maladroit administration of Jimmy Carter has largely been blamed for this failure, which occurred at the height of the Cold War to the detriment American interests.

After Muslim Brotherhood's Morsy came to power in Egypt, US foreign policy analysts asked "Who Lost Egypt?" After all, Egypt was a vital lynchpin ally in the region, and its loss to Islamist forces would likely mean a dangerous destabilization of the established order upon which stability in the Middle East was based. That concern did not last however, as Egypt's army under Sisi soon ousted Morsy and quickly brought the country back into the US orbit.

This time we now see the Turkish Mamlukes under Erdogan firmly asserting themselves in a direction that is likely to break free of the Ameri-Khanate. With the failure of the military coup and the inevitable purge that is to follow, the US has no hope of turning Turkey away from its current path. This happens at a time when the US faces a dangerous threat in the rise of ISIS.

Who will ultimately be blamed for this serious blow to the US-led international order?

Who Lost Turkey?
And what will the impact of this loss be?

That's easy.

Obama with his love of the Arab Spring!

 

[Lord of Planar]

I would love to get Donald Sutherland's take on this.

Which Donald Sutherland?

Vernon Pinkley?

Hawkeye Pierce?

Oddball?

Father Michael Ferrier?

Sgt. Dan Candy?

Liam Devlin?

Dave Jennings?

Hollis Hurlbut?

Jerry O'Neill?

Nathan Templeton?

President Snow?

Or, a different Donal Sutherland?

 

[MaggieD]

Which Donald Sutherland?

Vernon Pinkley?

Hawkeye Pierce?

Oddball?

Father Michael Ferrier?

Sgt. Dan Candy?

Liam Devlin?

Dave Jennings?

Hollis Hurlbut?

Jerry O'Neill?

Nathan Templeton?

President Snow?

Or, a different Donal Sutherland?

Our very OWN!

 

[Manc Skipper]

Turkey is lost? Where did it go? I have a holiday booked!