Who killed Jesus?

[kal-el]

"Well known" will not suffice. Prove it! If you expect me to accept your assertion that jewbus existed merely on the grounds of hearsay then you are mistaken.
Give me evidence or shut up!

Dude, you don't have to accept it. That's the wonderful thing, we can all hold seperate opinions. We are not all sheep, dumbly following the rest.:smile:

 

[Aryan Imperium]

Dude, you don't have to accept it. That's the wonderful thing, we can all hold seperate opinions. We are not all sheep, dumbly following the rest.:smile:

Well, "dude" you clearly haven`t the capability to prove that the jewbus fictional character ever existed but you expect me to frame my life around his "sayings",laughable?

 

[clone]

...yeah...this ones a long one.

my opinion on jesus: hes dead. he wasnt god. he wasnt son of god.
this goes against what most of my muslim brothers believe, but im stickign to it anyways.

first off, id like to stray a bit off topic to the birth of jesus. i am a man who does not blindly believe what a book or a man says. i believe in logic, and what makes sense. my justification for virgin mary having a son is hermaphragitis(sp?). if you dont know what that is, id rather not explain, go look it up. god is not human, not can he have children. simple logic tells me this. if god has indirectly created everyone by causing the big bang, he doesnt need to have sex with someone to create a child. he can do it in other ways, such as the word i mispelled above.

next, id like to justify his being mortal man, and not god. first off, he never says he is. sure he says "i am the light, i am the way", but that can also mean he is only a prophet of god, and to believe in him is "the way". if you can find me any verse in the bible where jesus says "I am GOD, worship me" DIRECTLY(indirect verses can have various interpretaions that id rather not get into).

finally, we get into his death. yes he died, he did not ascend into the heavens. first off, no man up to date has ever ascended into the heavens, and as i dont believe jesus was god or son of god, i dont see why he should be different. Pontius Pilot ordered him to be crucified, but only after heavy persuasion by the jewish leaders.

<b>now lets think. why would the jews want jesus crucified? oh yeah! because it says in the old testament that IF A MAN WHO CLAIMS TO BE A PROPHET IS CRUCIFIED SUCCESFULLY, HE IS A LIAR. crucifixion is a cursed death. god would never contradict himself. that would make him a liar, and GOD CANT BE A LIAR, it defeats the purpose of being god. so from this, we draw our conclusion that Jesus did not die on the cross, nor was did he ascend into the heaves, as that is simply IMPOSSIBLE. </b>

every single miracle that any prophet of god has shown, has had scientific evidence behind it proving that it could really happen. give me an example of a miracle that is stated DIRECTLY in any holy book, and im sure i can justify it in a logical way.

now to the real question, if he wasnt crucified, then where did he go, and who killed him. i have done EXTENSIVE research on this, and the only logical conclusion that i have found, is that he travelled away from jeruselum. even in the bible, he says he has to go find the lost sheep of israel, and preach his message to them. jesus was a prophet. PROPHETS DONT FAIL. he did find hte lost sheep, and he did preach to them. historical records indicate that a man named "Isa" came to Kashmir around the same time that jesus was crucified. i believe this Isa is Jesus. Isa was said to have been a holy man, who preached to many men and women in the area, and then died a natural death. His tomb is in kashmir, and outside of his tomb are his footprints, and on them you can see where the nails of the cross were hammered into his feet.

as for how he got off of the cross, the bible tells us that when he was supposedly dead, his followers came and took his body to a cave. they even saw him alive, and they asked if he was a ghost, he said he wasnt. logic states that he didnt die. the bible says he didnt die. if you want to argue this with me, bring it on.

 

[dthmstr254]

Nu Uh, I havent sinned yet.

have you ever lied, even a little white lie? if so you have sinned. if not then you are lying about it and have sinned. "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"

 

[dthmstr254]

"Well known" will not suffice. Prove it! If you expect me to accept your assertion that jewbus existed merely on the grounds of hearsay then you are mistaken

Give me evidence or shut up!

a secular history college level book, Traditions and Encounters has the reader's digest version for you so maybe you should pick up a copy and read the eleventh chapter.

 

[dthmstr254]

...yeah...this ones a long one.

my opinion on jesus: hes dead. he wasnt god. he wasnt son of god.
this goes against what most of my muslim brothers believe, but im stickign to it anyways.

the muslims dont believe he was God either, just a prophet.

first off, id like to stray a bit off topic to the birth of jesus. i am a man who does not blindly believe what a book or a man says. i believe in logic, and what makes sense. my justification for virgin mary having a son is hermaphragitis(sp?). if you dont know what that is, id rather not explain, go look it up. god is not human, not can he have children. simple logic tells me this. if god has indirectly created everyone by causing the big bang, he doesnt need to have sex with someone to create a child. he can do it in other ways, such as the word i mispelled above.

hermaphragitis is not researchable on webmd or google, as it is not a true disease. the closest i found was hermaphroditism, which is just a disease in which the baby is born with gonads from both the male and female. this kind of baby would have been unable to marry or even enter a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, as the parents would have to tell the boyfriend before he married her, as required by Jewish law back then. the fact that Mary was a virgin was evidently proved by sheets because she would have been under punishment of stoning if she had sexual relations with someone before she finished her marriage time. Joseph actually publicly accused her of adultery, but she evidently showed evidence to the contrary, otherwise she would have been stoned. and in the above mentioned disease, there is no connection between the glands for sperm and the glands for eggs, so in order to explain the virgin birth, she would have had to have sex with herself, a very near impossible feat.

next, id like to justify his being mortal man, and not god. first off, he never says he is. sure he says "i am the light, i am the way", but that can also mean he is only a prophet of god, and to believe in him is "the way". if you can find me any verse in the bible where jesus says "I am GOD, worship me" DIRECTLY(indirect verses can have various interpretaions that id rather not get into).

"Before Abraham was, I Am "(also translated as YHWH or Yeshua, something i recently learned from the Hebrew professor in my college)

finally, we get into his death. yes he died, he did not ascend into the heavens. first off, no man up to date has ever ascended into the heavens, and as i dont believe jesus was god or son of god, i dont see why he should be different. Pontius Pilot ordered him to be crucified, but only after heavy persuasion by the jewish leaders.

<b>now lets think. why would the jews want jesus crucified? oh yeah! because it says in the old testament that IF A MAN WHO CLAIMS TO BE A PROPHET IS CRUCIFIED SUCCESFULLY, HE IS A LIAR. crucifixion is a cursed death. god would never contradict himself. that would make him a liar, and GOD CANT BE A LIAR, it defeats the purpose of being god. so from this, we draw our conclusion that Jesus did not die on the cross, nor was did he ascend into the heaves, as that is simply IMPOSSIBLE. </b>

where in the old testament is this? the punishment of crucifixion was never thought of until the Romans took over Israel, so they couldnt have known of crucifixion yet. read psalms 22 and it describes quite avidly the execution of Christ Jesus

every single miracle that any prophet of god has shown, has had scientific evidence behind it proving that it could really happen. give me an example of a miracle that is stated DIRECTLY in any holy book, and im sure i can justify it in a logical way.

ressurection of Lazarus
elijah and the fire rained down from heaven
elijah raising a kid from the dead through the Holy Spirit
ressurection of Jesus
Killing of the Assyrian Army in Isaiah during the time of Hezekiah without a single Jew lifting a finger.
shadrach meshack and abednego and the fourth person.
handwriting on the wall
the transfiguration
quote from every infomercial on tv: "but wait, theres more"

now to the real question, if he wasnt crucified, then where did he go, and who killed him. i have done EXTENSIVE research on this, and the only logical conclusion that i have found, is that he travelled away from jeruselum. even in the bible, he says he has to go find the lost sheep of israel, and preach his message to them. jesus was a prophet. PROPHETS DONT FAIL. he did find hte lost sheep, and he did preach to them. historical records indicate that a man named "Isa" came to Kashmir around the same time that jesus was crucified. i believe this Isa is Jesus. Isa was said to have been a holy man, who preached to many men and women in the area, and then died a natural death. His tomb is in kashmir, and outside of his tomb are his footprints, and on them you can see where the nails of the cross were hammered into his feet.

Isa?!?!?!?!? please give me your source, and i want at least four CREDIBLE sources. show who said this, when this guy lived and the birthplace of this "Isa" until then i am done on this point.
as for how he got off of the cross, the bible tells us that when he was

supposedly dead, his followers came and took his body to a cave. they even saw him alive, and they asked if he was a ghost, he said he wasnt. logic states that he didnt die. the bible says he didnt die. if you want to argue this with me, bring it on.

bible says he gave up the ghost in John 19:30. read the KJV, maybe you could more clearly understand what it is saying. you have misunderstood the Bible, and being unable to do this kind of research, have not put up a very intelligent argument. i just used 200 words to disprove your 600 word report

 

[leejosepho]

my opinion on jesus: hes dead ...
the bible tells us that when he was supposedly dead ...
the bible says he didnt die.

Where does Scripture say "supposedly dead"?
Where does Scripture say "he didnt die"?
And if that is what you actually believe Scripture says, then why do you opine "hes dead"?

every single miracle that any prophet of god has shown, has had scientific evidence behind it proving that it could really happen. give me an example of a miracle that is stated DIRECTLY in any holy book, and im sure i can justify it in a logical way.

Here is one:

---
Then Ěliyahu said to all the people, “Come closer to me.” And all the people came closer to him. And he repaired the altar of יהוה [YHWH] that was broken down. And Ěliyahu took twelve stones ...
And with the stones he built an altar ...
And he made a trench around the altar ...
And he arranged the wood, and cut the bull in pieces, and laid it on the wood, and said,
“Fill four jars with water, and pour it on the burnt offering and on the wood.”
Then he said, “Do it a second time,” and they did it a second time.
And he said, “Do it a third time,” and they did it a third time.
And the water flowed around the altar, and he filled the trench with water too.
...
Then the fire of יהוה [YHWH] fell and consumed the burnt offering, and the wood
and the stones and the dust, and it licked up the water that was in the trench.
(1Kings 18:30-38, emphasis added).
---

Your logical explanation?

 

[clone]

well argued.

first, about miracles...
the bible cannot be taken litterally all the time...

i dont have a bible on me, or any references, but you guys can probably relate to everything i talk about.

ressurection of Lazarus - give me a reference to the bible on this, ill get back to you.

elijah and the fire rained down from heaven - if your talking about the event in [1 kings, 18.45]... umm...ever heard of lightning? the timing of the lightning was guided by god, sure enough, but lightning is not a miracle.

elijah raising a kid from the dead through the Holy Spirit - the body of the child was never found, there is no evidence that this child really existed. assuming he did exist, chaces are the child wasnt dead in the first place. in those times no one checked your pulse, they didnt have heart-rate monitors or any of the devices we use today to confirm a man is dead. my mother is a doctor, and ive seen her revive people before. its very possible the boy had anemia, in which case he may have blacked out, using a simple wet towel, he could have been revived. anemia can cause people to faint for hours if it isnt handled correctly. could the child not have been dead, but simply unconciouss?

ressurection of Jesus - i have already told you my views about this, he didnt die.

Killing of the Assyrian Army in Isaiah during the time of Hezekiah without a single Jew lifting a finger - historical evidence written by the assyrians tells us that the jews were simply smart. the assyrian army were coming to besiege jeruselem, expecting to conquer, but the Jewish king Hezekiah had a underground aqueduct built, so that they would have a fresh supply of water, and the siege would be pointless. after a while the assyrian army simply got bored and went away. look it up yourself.

shadrach meshack and abednego and the fourth person - no idea what your talking about.

handwriting on the wall - no clue.

the transfiguration - explanation and references needed.


now to the point of virgin mary having a child. you are right, hermaphrogitis is not researchable as it doesnt exist. the true disease is hermaphroditism, and you are quite right about its symptoms. doctors agree today that it is possible that a hermaphrodite can fertilize "itself" without causing any harm, and thus produce a child. it is also possible that the child may have been produced by a number of genetic mutations, in one such case the male parent leaves an extra chromosome in his child, thus allowing the childs body to make a baby on its own. there are a number of ways it could have happened, especially since god wanted it to happen.

"Before Abraham was, I am" - this quote can have multiple interpretations, as you said yourself. i wont get into this.

death by crucifixion is cursed - my reference is:

"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, he that hangeth is accursed of God" [Galatians, 3.13]

and...

"His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance." [Deutronomy, 21.23]
right...so much for your disproving...

The scripture does not anywhere say that he died, for that would destroy the belief of ressurection. but it does give us clues as to what happened, which can lead us, if we have a good enough sense of direction and logic, to the truth.

"But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water." [John, 19.34]

Ask any doctor, when blood and water "gush out"(as it says in my version, not in the online version i found) it can only mean that blood is still circulating, and that the man is still alive.

Most christians these days believe that "he died to save our sins", but in truth, Christ never wanted to die in the first place, he wanted to stay alive and preach his message.

"My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?...deliver me from the sword, my darling...save me from the lions mouth.... " [The book of Psalms, 22.1]
the same book then says, "and when he[jesus] cried unto him[the Lord], he heard." [22.23/24]

There are many other places where Jesus' deliverance from the romans is promised. ask me and ill show them.

on the whole, i refuse to believe that he "ascended to the heavens" when there is such clear proof, that he did not die on the cross, therefore there is no need for him to have been ressurected.

I dont know what is meant by "gave up the ghost" and knowing the bible, it can probably mean multiple things.

 

[clone]

oh yeah and my sources about the Isa Theory: go to http://www.tombofjesus.com

there youll find more historical evidence than you can shake a stick at.

 

[leejosepho]

first, about miracles...

elijah and the fire rained down from heaven - if your talking about the event in [1 kings, 18.45]... umm...ever heard of lightning? the timing of the lightning was guided by god, sure enough, but lightning is not a miracle.

No, it is not, but what "logical explanation" might there be for the fire thereafter also consuming (along with the water-soaked bull and wood) the stones and the dust (including all ashes) and then washing all of that down by "licking up" all of that water for desert?

 

[clone]

fire destroying stones? quite possible.
fire destroying dust? also quite possible.
as for water? the flashpoint of water is way below the flashpoint of stone and dust.
like i said, lightning can explain all of that.

make no mistake, i believe in prophets, and their signs, and i do believe their signs are guided by the lord, but im also saying that i refuse to have "blind faith" in anything other then the existence of god. for everything else that regards religion, i need logic. people dont just ascend to the heavens, and rivers dont part themselves.

i dont believe in anything unless i have a firm logical reason to do so.

 

[dthmstr254]

well argued.

first, about miracles...
the bible cannot be taken litterally all the time...

i dont have a bible on me, or any references, but you guys can probably relate to everything i talk about.

ressurection of Lazarus - give me a reference to the bible on this, ill get back to you.

john 11.

elijah and the fire rained down from heaven - if your talking about the event in [1 kings, 18.45]... umm...ever heard of lightning? the timing of the lightning was guided by god, sure enough, but lightning is not a miracle.

lightning on a cloudless day, in the middle of a drought? not a miracle indeed. :roll:

elijah raising a kid from the dead through the Holy Spirit - the body of the child was never found, there is no evidence that this child really existed. assuming he did exist, chaces are the child wasnt dead in the first place. in those times no one checked your pulse, they didnt have heart-rate monitors or any of the devices we use today to confirm a man is dead. my mother is a doctor, and ive seen her revive people before. its very possible the boy had anemia, in which case he may have blacked out, using a simple wet towel, he could have been revived. anemia can cause people to faint for hours if it isnt handled correctly. could the child not have been dead, but simply unconciouss?

the kid was in what many doctors refer to as respiratory arrest, he was not breathing for several days, the human body would not be able to survive without air for even 2 minutes.

ressurection of Jesus - i have already told you my views about this, he didnt die.

then you are ignorant to the 1st degree

Killing of the Assyrian Army in Isaiah during the time of Hezekiah without a single Jew lifting a finger - historical evidence written by the assyrians tells us that the jews were simply smart. the assyrian army were coming to besiege jeruselem, expecting to conquer, but the Jewish king Hezekiah had a underground aqueduct built, so that they would have a fresh supply of water, and the siege would be pointless. after a while the assyrian army simply got bored and went away. look it up yourself.

here is a little historical insight for you, mr freshman in high school. the assyrian king was among the dead, dont you think that they would have tried to cover up how their army of over 160000 people just dropped dead.

shadrach meshack and abednego and the fourth person - no idea what your talking about.

daniel 13

handwriting on the wall - no clue.

daniel 5; i am truly confused as to why you jumped into this debate with such a poor knowledge of the scriptures and then claimed to explain the miracles within its pages rationally

the transfiguration - explanation and references needed.

matthew 17

now to the point of virgin mary having a child. you are right, hermaphrogitis is not researchable as it doesnt exist. the true disease is hermaphroditism, and you are quite right about its symptoms. doctors agree today that it is possible that a hermaphrodite can fertilize "itself" without causing any harm, and thus produce a child. it is also possible that the child may have been produced by a number of genetic mutations, in one such case the male parent leaves an extra chromosome in his child, thus allowing the childs body to make a baby on its own. there are a number of ways it could have happened, especially since god wanted it to happen.

and please cite your sources.

"Before Abraham was, I am" - this quote can have multiple interpretations, as you said yourself. i wont get into this.

the interpretations of YHWH are as follows:
Lord
God
I Am (the name God used in the burning bush)
these are the translations of YHWH

death by crucifixion is cursed - my reference is:

"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, he that hangeth is accursed of God" [Galatians, 3.13]

and...

"His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance." [Deutronomy, 21.23]

he that HANGETH is referring to remaining on the cross
Jesus was taken down upon the same night, and was also forsaken of God for three days until His ressurection

right...so much for your disproving...

The scripture does not anywhere say that he died, for that would destroy the belief of ressurection. but it does give us clues as to what happened, which can lead us, if we have a good enough sense of direction and logic, to the truth.

"But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water." [John, 19.34]

Ask any doctor, when blood and water "gush out"(as it says in my version, not in the online version i found) it can only mean that blood is still circulating, and that the man is still alive.

gush out is a highly liberal translation meant to throw off the reader. the literal translation of the greek is "to trickle or drip". also when they both, water and blood, are seen the person can be pronounced dead, as the blood does not seperate itself from the water in it when the person is alive.

Most christians these days believe that "he died to save our sins", but in truth, Christ never wanted to die in the first place, he wanted to stay alive and preach his message.

explain the last supper, "this is my body that is broken for you" "this is my blood that is shed for you." he made several allusions to His future death. "you can tear this temple down and i will rebuild it in three days" talking once again of His "temple" or body.

"My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?...deliver me from the sword, my darling...save me from the lions mouth.... " [The book of Psalms, 22.1]
the same book then says, "and when he[jesus] cried unto him[the Lord], he heard." [22.23/24]

There are many other places where Jesus' deliverance from the romans is promised. ask me and ill show them.

show them, KJV please, so i dont have to hunt the passages down for hours on end this time.

on the whole, i refuse to believe that he "ascended to the heavens" when there is such clear proof, that he did not die on the cross, therefore there is no need for him to have been ressurected.

45 eyewitness accounts would be considered overdoing it in a courthouse today, and also in roman courthouses back then.

I dont know what is meant by "gave up the ghost" and knowing the bible, it can probably mean multiple things.

gave up the ghost means that he died. it is what some people nowadays refer to as leaving the body. he died quite clearly stated in the Bible

 

[dthmstr254]

oh yeah and my sources about the Isa Theory: go to http://www.tombofjesus.com

there youll find more historical evidence than you can shake a stick at.

im not shaking a stick at it, it fell apart before i got deep into it, my goodness man there is no gospel of thomas. i have my Bible right here and i just popped a contact lens out just trying to find thomas in the Table of contents, there is a disciple named Thomas, but there is NO gospel of Thomas:lol:

 

[kal-el]

well argued.

first, about miracles...
the bible cannot be taken litterally all the time...

Exactly. I believe it to be truthful, just written by primitive people who can only use things in their surrondings to describe things.

Just like the prophet Jonah. It said he was swallowed by a great fish, and he was in the belly of it for 3 days and 3 nights. Please, that's just a primitive person describing it. First off, the gastric juices of such an animal would have quickly digested a man, without any hope of him returning to open air.

 

[leejosepho]

fire destroying stones? quite possible.
fire destroying dust? also quite possible.
as for water? the flashpoint of water is way below the flashpoint of stone and dust.
like i said, lightning can explain all of that.

No, you have missed some details:

Assuming lightning started the *fire* ...

First the fire consumed the water-soaked bull and wood,
then the fire consumed the rocks,
then the fire consumed the ashes of the bull, the wood *and* the rocks,
and for a grand finale ...
the fire then "licked up" the water that should have quenched it long ago.

make no mistake, i believe in prophets, and their signs, and i do believe their signs are guided by the lord, but im also saying that i refuse to have "blind faith" in anything other then the existence of god.

Personally, I do not need "blind faith" for even that!

And of course, yes ...

people dont just ascend to the heavens, and rivers dont part themselves.

 

[clone]

no i was saying that the fire was the lightning.

in response to dthmaster...

there is no proof other than the bible to even tell us that the child ever existed. do not go about giving me a diagnosis of a patient that lived 2000+ years ago. my diagnosis was simply a suggestion, there could be many other ways that the child was unconcious, and because of this lets take the kid out of this debate; because neither you nor i are willing to accept the other persons interpretation of the event.

okay mr. 30-some years of age, let me tell you something. on the walls of the assyrian capital city are accounts of almost every campaign the assyrians fought. the kind did come back, though he was not victorious. the kind did not die. the army did not suffer any losses. what you are relating to is the bible showing us how to spin a story, and a little thing us "high school freshmen" call exaggeration. you are simply being ignorant here, i already explained this, and if that explanation isnt good enough for you, then i dont see a point in continuing this debate at all. if you are so close minded and unable to see past your own misguided versions of things, then please do me a favor and dont respond to this.

i dont even find a need to respond to your comment that "gush out is a liberal way of saying it to throw you off". if you are simply going to say that anything that goes against your way of seeing things is "liberal" and "meant to throw you off", then again i say this debate is pointless.

as to your comment of: "explain the last supper, "this is my body that is broken for you" "this is my blood that is shed for you." he made several allusions to His future death. "you can tear this temple down and i will rebuild it in three days" talking once again of His "temple" or body."
i have already said countless amounts of time that the words of jesus in the bible can be interpreted in many different ways. dont bring this up again.

and no, i do not believe the "eye witness accounts" of these 45 people. they lived 2000+ years ago, and they are not exactly the most trustworthy people around. the roman court can do as it will, i will not believe anything that cannot be explained by logic or science.

your last comment was "gave up the ghost means that he died. it is what some people nowadays refer to as leaving the body. he died quite clearly stated in the Bible"
and who was the bible written by? oh yeah, the followers of christ. sorry, can you remind me where they got their Medical Degrees from again, if they are so sure they can make accurate medical diagnostics while not being nearly close enough to Jesus, or having any special knowledge about medicine at all.

lastly, "he that HANGETH is referring to remaining on the cross
Jesus was taken down upon the same night, and was also forsaken of God for three days until His ressurection"
the verse is saying that if you die on the cross you are accursed of god. now why would god curse his prophet, especially if his prophet did not want to die(see The book of Psalms, 22.1-21)?


and my other references to where it is proven that jesus did not die on the cross:

see [The book of Psalms, 22.8-23/24]

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. [Matthew, 12.40]
Jonas, as we all know, was ALIVE during his 3 days and nights in the belly of the whale. or was he "ressurected" as well?

For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation. [Luke, 11.30]
Jonas is again mentioned.

Christs' Prayed to god while he was on the cross, and before he was on the corss(see Luke 22.41;Matthew 26.38-44;Hebrews 5.7) and he had such firm faith in his prayers(see Matthew 26.53;John 11.40-42;Luke 11.9-13;Matthew 21.22), then why would God not listen to him? He was saved from the cross.

and my referenced to the Isa theory:
1)www.tombofjesus.com
2)http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/1340/jesus_in_india.htm <--read all of that, there is an enormous amount of proof in there.
3)http://www.sol.com.au/kor/7_01.htm
4)a documentry done by BBC which debates where Jesus died. http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/did-jesus-die.shtml
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/did-jesus-die-interview.shtml

 

[Chevalier]

No he didn`t:read the site.
If AFTER READING THE SITE you still maintain that he existed then prove it!
Start by stating the sources. It is simply just not good enough to state "in many records of historians".
Do you also maintain that this fictional character is also the "son of god"?

The church itself is proof of Jesus the Christ and his existence, my young friend. Is your problem with him that he was Semitic and God's Son? The "Aryan" nomenclature ruins your credibility but the "Imperium" sobriquette further demonstrates the insecurity you feel, young one. I suggest you read the early church fathers, Josephus, and the other obvious historical references. Begin with them, cast off the Aryan illusion of supremacy if that possesses you and explore the real world through balanced eyes. Jesus existed, saving me and offering the same for you. But you will never know the truth until you cast off the illusion of aryan importance. As an aryan, I welcome the diversity of creation. My sisters and brothers are from all tribes, tongues, religions and cultures because the truth is aryan supremacy is a lie cooked up by scared people bent on attaining power through the transmission of fear. Such people can hardly be an Imperium. Aryan culture came after African and Semitic cultures, we are a third generation culture, there is nothing primary about us. Let go the will-to-power my young friend, accept the will-to-relationship embodied in Christ that draws near in the Holy Spirit. Only then will the fear and hurt end.

 

[dthmstr254]

no i was saying that the fire was the lightning.

in response to dthmaster...

there is no proof other than the bible to even tell us that the child ever existed. do not go about giving me a diagnosis of a patient that lived 2000+ years ago. my diagnosis was simply a suggestion, there could be many other ways that the child was unconcious, and because of this lets take the kid out of this debate; because neither you nor i are willing to accept the other persons interpretation of the event.

okay mr. 30-some years of age, let me tell you something. on the walls of the assyrian capital city are accounts of almost every campaign the assyrians fought. the kind did come back, though he was not victorious. the kind did not die. the army did not suffer any losses. what you are relating to is the bible showing us how to spin a story, and a little thing us "high school freshmen" call exaggeration. you are simply being ignorant here, i already explained this, and if that explanation isnt good enough for you, then i dont see a point in continuing this debate at all. if you are so close minded and unable to see past your own misguided versions of things, then please do me a favor and dont respond to this.

i dont even find a need to respond to your comment that "gush out is a liberal way of saying it to throw you off". if you are simply going to say that anything that goes against your way of seeing things is "liberal" and "meant to throw you off", then again i say this debate is pointless.

as to your comment of: "explain the last supper, "this is my body that is broken for you" "this is my blood that is shed for you." he made several allusions to His future death. "you can tear this temple down and i will rebuild it in three days" talking once again of His "temple" or body."
i have already said countless amounts of time that the words of jesus in the bible can be interpreted in many different ways. dont bring this up again.

and no, i do not believe the "eye witness accounts" of these 45 people. they lived 2000+ years ago, and they are not exactly the most trustworthy people around. the roman court can do as it will, i will not believe anything that cannot be explained by logic or science.

your last comment was "gave up the ghost means that he died. it is what some people nowadays refer to as leaving the body. he died quite clearly stated in the Bible"
and who was the bible written by? oh yeah, the followers of christ. sorry, can you remind me where they got their Medical Degrees from again, if they are so sure they can make accurate medical diagnostics while not being nearly close enough to Jesus, or having any special knowledge about medicine at all.

lastly, "he that HANGETH is referring to remaining on the cross
Jesus was taken down upon the same night, and was also forsaken of God for three days until His ressurection"
the verse is saying that if you die on the cross you are accursed of god. now why would god curse his prophet, especially if his prophet did not want to die(see The book of Psalms, 22.1-21)?


and my other references to where it is proven that jesus did not die on the cross:

see [The book of Psalms, 22.8-23/24]

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. [Matthew, 12.40]
Jonas, as we all know, was ALIVE during his 3 days and nights in the belly of the whale. or was he "ressurected" as well?

For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation. [Luke, 11.30]
Jonas is again mentioned.

Christs' Prayed to god while he was on the cross, and before he was on the corss(see Luke 22.41;Matthew 26.38-44;Hebrews 5.7) and he had such firm faith in his prayers(see Matthew 26.53;John 11.40-42;Luke 11.9-13;Matthew 21.22), then why would God not listen to him? He was saved from the cross.

and my referenced to the Isa theory:
1)www.tombofjesus.com
2)http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/1340/jesus_in_india.htm <--read all of that, there is an enormous amount of proof in there.
3)http://www.sol.com.au/kor/7_01.htm
4)a documentry done by BBC which debates where Jesus died. http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/did-jesus-die.shtml
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/did-jesus-die-interview.shtml

i wont grace this with an answer until you answer me straight, until then "this is Peter Jennings, good night!"

 

[clone]

i have given as straight a response as i possible can, i have told you my beliefs, and have backed them up as best i can.

this gets boring after a while anyways.

 

[dthmstr254]

i have given as straight a response as i possible can, i have told you my beliefs, and have backed them up as best i can.

this gets boring after a while anyways.

well dont start what you cant finish, if i get another sidestep i am putting you on my ignore list.

 

[leejosepho]

no i was saying that the fire was the lightning.

Okay, let us proceed on that thought ...

When lightening hits a tree, the tree might be broken down and burned a bit, but in this particular case:

Bull, wood, rocks, all ashes and water completely disappear in an instant.

Pretty impressive, eh?!

 

[leejosepho]

... if i get another sidestep i am putting you on my ignore list.

Hey! That is precisely how you ended up on mine, is it not?!

 

[dthmstr254]

Hey! That is precisely how you ended up on mine, is it not?!

no i ended up on it because of the messed up IM. you told me yourself.

 

[Chevalier]

The aryans, my race, are so culturally inferior we need a savior to redeem our corrupt and evil, doomed race. We plundered the greatness of the African, the Native American, the Asian. We had to learn from all of them because our Mein Kamph was proof of our weaknesses and fears, Nietzsche wrote undeniable proof that our intellect is not much above a spiders, and yet you accept the dogmatic inculcating inferiority of lesser creativity and thought. There has not been

We came from Africa, we emerged from the plains of Africa, an afterthought of God's divine creativity and Dante's Divine Comedy should have been written about how the fear filled doctrine/religion of aryan superiority came into being. You and I are children of Lucy, not so distant a relative as you want us to be, as your mythology informs you. End the intellectually stunted drive to segregation, sell the hood and cowl, learn to walk like everyone else, get the nose out of the clouds and embrace your African origins my friend for that is who you and I and every single person on this planet are at our core.

 

[dthmstr254]

you are sounding like a nazi, the whites arent the only rich privileged or educated people. ever been to china, they take education seriously there, only a week for a summer break. they are the true educated people, we just feed off of them to get our money.