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Who killed Jesus?

kal-el

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I think it was the Romans, who were directly responsible, but the Jewish establishment had a hand in it as well.
 

sLiPpY

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kal-el said:
I think it was the Romans, who were directly responsible, but the Jewish establishment had a hand in it as well.
I think that the religiously correct answer would be, that God chose to sacrifice his own son...for the sins of the world. The Romans, and the Jewish establishment are irrelevant.
 

kal-el

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sLiPpY said:
I think that the religiously correct answer would be, that God chose to sacrifice his own son...for the sins of the world. The Romans, and the Jewish establishment are irrelevant.
How can they be? If it weren't for the preists conditioned by the rabbis, and of course, the Roman soliders, taken orders from Pontius Pilate, Jesus would'nt have been killed in such a barbaric fashion.
 

sLiPpY

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kal-el said:
How can they be? If it weren't for the preists conditioned by the rabbis, and of course, the Roman soliders, taken orders from Pontius Pilate, Jesus would'nt have been killed in such a barbaric fashion.
Did Jesus himself not know, while he was praying in the Garden? Is the Christian god, not omnipotent? The players in my understanding are irrelevant, in that it was expected, and allegedly part of God's plan. If it hadn't been for the Romans, and the rabbis...that plan would not have been fulfilled. And if Jesus had lived, all the Christians would be condemned to live eternally in sin.
 

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Uh. According to Christian belief, wasn't he supposed to die for your sins?

So if anything, you owe whoever killed him.
 

kal-el

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sLiPpY said:
Did Jesus himself not know, while he was praying in the Garden? Is the Christian god, not omnipotent? The players in my understanding are irrelevant, in that it was expected, and allegedly part of God's plan. If it hadn't been for the Romans, and the rabbis...that plan would not have been fulfilled. And if Jesus had lived, all the Christians would be condemned to live eternally in sin.
Of course Jesus knew, but the fact that Jesus was God and God is "omnipotent" is where we differ in opinion on this subject. I don't understand, when you mention that the players in this are irrelevant, then you say that had it not been for them, the scriptures would'nt be fullfilled?
 

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kal-el said:
Of course Jesus knew, but the fact that Jesus was God and God is "omnipotent" is where we differ in opinion on this subject. I don't understand, when you mention that the players in this are irrelevant, then you say that had it not been for them, the scriptures would'nt be fullfilled?
There are many interpretations of the story, in the realm of a subjectively negotiated mythology. The one that I have offered is generally accepted by Christians around the world.

If we agree that Jesus knew? wouldn't that imply a suicidal tendancy, in absence of a purpose. The concept of sacrifice, and a consious one at that is a central theme in Christianity. It's not so much who, as is "what" that is important.
 

mixedmedia

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vergiss said:
Uh. According to Christian belief, wasn't he supposed to die for your sins?

So if anything, you owe whoever killed him.
Wow, I think you actually have a point there I can agree with. Makes sense to me.

Then again, I am kind of impartial on the matter - don't have a stake in the outcome.

For my two cents, it was "the powers that were" that killed Christ. Just as they would do again today if they had the chance.
 

MiamiFlorida

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kal-el said:
I think it was the Romans, who were directly responsible, but the Jewish establishment had a hand in it as well.
Jesus was a Jew.

Exterminating Jews seems to be the International pastime of the last 2,000 years.
 

kal-el

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mixedmedia said:
Wow, I think you actually have a point there I can agree with. Makes sense to me.

Then again, I am kind of impartial on the matter - don't have a stake in the outcome.

For my two cents, it was "the powers that were" that killed Christ. Just as they would do again today if they had the chance.
Agreed. There is another thread on this, but I believe the power elite of society would do their best to silence him.
 

SKILMATIC

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Yes God did sacrifice his own son however, the romans/jews did physically kill him.

I agree with both sides
 

mixedmedia

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kal-el said:
Agreed. There is another thread on this, but I believe the power elite of society would do their best to silence him.
There's a thread on this? I can believe that

I used to post on this site back in the day when it was about 1/4 the size it is now. I took a little hiatus (since March) and am a little flabbergasted at how much it has grown since then. I guess that's a good thing.....

Like your movie clip....didn't know you could do that.
 

kal-el

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mixedmedia said:
There's a thread on this? I can believe that

I used to post on this site back in the day when it was about 1/4 the size it is now. I took a little hiatus (since March) and am a little flabbergasted at how much it has grown since then. I guess that's a good thing.....

Like your movie clip....didn't know you could do that.
Yes, I started a thread entited, "If Jesus would return" in the religion and philoshipy forum.

I'm kinda suprised myself about the clip, wheras it won't let me download animated images to my avatar.
 

kal-el

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SKILMATIC said:
Yes God did sacrifice his own son however, the romans/jews did physically kill him.

I agree with both sides
SKILMATIC, I believe on another thread you said that the Jews are resposible for nailing Jesus to the cross, I disagree, I think it was the Roman soliders.
 
Y

y not peace?

Ok like someone already said: GOd sacrificed his son for the people of earth. Technicly you can blame his death on the Jewish people who didnt beilve he was the son of God.

John 19

1 Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him. 2 And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe, 3 And said, Hail, King of the Jews! and they smote him with their hands. 4 Pilate therefore went forth again, and saith unto them, Behold, I bring him forth to you, that ye may know that I find no fault in him. 5 Then came Jesus forth, wearing the crown of thorns, and the purple robe. And Pilate saith unto them, Behold the man! 6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him. 7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God. 8 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid; 9 And went again into the judgment hall, and saith unto Jesus, Whence art thou? But Jesus gave him no answer. 10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee? 11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin. 12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar. 13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha. 14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! 15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar. 16 Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away. 17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha: 18 Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst. 19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS. 20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin. 21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews. 22 Pilate answered, What I have written I have written. 23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout. 24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did. 25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! 27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home. 28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst. 29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth. 30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. 31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. 32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. 33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: 34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. 36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. 37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced. 38 And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus. 39 And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight. 40 Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury. 41 Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid. 42 There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation day; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.
 

SKILMATIC

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SKILMATIC, I believe on another thread you said that the Jews are resposible for nailing Jesus to the cross, I disagree, I think it was the Roman soliders.
True, but ask yourself this question. If it were not for the jews mumering and pleading to kill jesus would the roman soldiers even bother with this man?
 

kal-el

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SKILMATIC said:
True, but ask yourself this question. If it were not for the jews mumering and pleading to kill jesus would the roman soldiers even bother with this man?
IMO eventually they would have had enough of him. He was attenpting to overthrow their traditions and the way in which they conducted themselves. Pilate himself failed to claim responsibility, he even "washed his hands" of it, in all actuality it was the rabbis, who were conditioned by the Jewish fanatics, who were not directly responsible. It is the same scenario as in Nazi Germany, the SS conditioned the German population into fanatisicm.
 

SKILMATIC

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IMO eventually they would have had enough of him. He was attenpting to overthrow their traditions and the way in which they conducted themselves. Pilate himself failed to claim responsibility, he even "washed his hands" of it, in all actuality it was the rabbis, who were conditioned by the Jewish fanatics, who were not directly responsible. It is the same scenario as in Nazi Germany, the SS conditioned the German population into fanatisicm.
Again I am not going to get in a pi$$ing contest with you about this casue I agree with both sides of this topic. I cant say you are wrong becasue you arent. Is that fair? If you think I disagree with you you are mistaken casue I dont.
 

FinnMacCool

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According to the bible, the high priests thought that he was a blasphemer and wanted to chage him but they couldn't because then they couldn't kill him. So instead they gave him to the romans and let them charge him as a traitor and they executed him basically.

And there are reports that jesus did exist. I think its probable that he did.

I'm no chrisitan though but I was raised Catholic and that is what I learned.
 

SKILMATIC

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I'm no chrisitan though but I was raised Catholic and that is what I learned.
Lol, catholicism is chirstianity dude. :lol:

You dont know what you are, :lol:

If you were raised catholic then its the same thing as if you said you were raised christian.
 

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FinnMacCool said:
I'm no chrisitan though but I was raised Catholic and that is what I learned.
So, you're basically Catholic in name, but reject the church in your own mind... you're basically a heretic, opposing the Church. Thats bad news, in my opinion, sorry.
 

SKILMATIC

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So, you're basically Catholic in name, but reject the church in your own mind... you're basically a heretic, opposing the Church. Thats bad news, in my opinion, sorry.
No catholicism is a christian denomination. Thats what makes his statement so funny.

If you are baptist, presbyterian, weslyan, and lutheran, etc. those are Protestant denominations due to Henry 8th sparking the church reformation also due to martin luthers 95thesis. Henry 8th wanted to devorce his wife and in order to do that he had to change(reform) the church.

So he did and insodiong sparked the protestand reformation. However, no 1 religion bases their ideologies from the whole Bible. It takes bits and peices and of course their own interpretation.
 

FinnMacCool

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I was raised Catholic but I'm not a catholic anymore. does that make sense?

Sorry I should've clarified. now stop laughing at me
 

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Actually it was his choice to lay his life down for us. As for who killed him…I can only speak for myself…I did. There is only one I can lay any blame on, that is me. It is because of my sin that he died. He died for all of us, but each of us will have to reason it within their own souls.
 
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