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Who is Turkey at war with?

Oozlefinch

Oozlefinch

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One of the things I am finding most annoying in here is that people keep going on and on about what Turkey is doing, and nobody seems to give a damn about who they are actually fighting.

Turkey is not fighting the Kurds. This is first and foremost something that has to be recognized. Who they are actually going after is the PKK.

Now the PKK (Kurdistan Workers Party) is a Marxist-Communist group, founded in Turkey in 1978. For over 40 years they have been conducting attacks not only in Turkey, but against Turkish targets in other countries. They have bombed the Turkish consulate in France, and in the 1980's participated in training and intelligence operations with the PLO. They were also allied and supported by Syria for many years until diplomatic pressure from Turkey had them stop and expel the OPKK leadership in Syria in 1998.

In Syria, they and their sister group the People's Protection Units (YPG) in 2015formed a more "Politically Friendly" organization the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF). This was primarily made in order to get equipment and support from the US. And at the same time, a 2 year ceasefire between the PKK and Turkey broke down in the wake of the Suruc bombing. In that attack, an ISIS suicide bomber attacked a meeting of Marxists in Turkey and 33 Kurds were killed. And in the Turkish crackdown to try and round up the supporters of the attack, the PKK started attacking and killing the Turkish Police (killing at least 2 of them).

The PKK has worked with, and against ISIL. They have worked both with and against other Kurdish forces. But for years now they have been targets by almost everybody. And in the last several weeks, I have actually tried to find reports of Turkey attacking Kurds that are not allied with the PKK or SDF. And interestingly, I have not found any yet. Every Kurdish spokesman I have found making statements and every attack appears to be aimed only at the PKK-SDF.

In 2017, US Army General Raymond Thomas stated that the SDF was simply a "PR Front" for the PKK, and support for them should be ended. Defense Secretary Ashton Carter also stated that the PKK is a terrorist organization and should not be supported. DNI Daniel Coates stated that the SDF is part of the PKK, and should not be supported.

The US, NATO, EU, INTERPOL, and many other organizations officially recognize the PKK as a terrorist organization. The US even has a $25 million bounty on the capture of the 6 leading members of the PKK-YPG-SDF. Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International and other humanitarian groups have had them listed on their watch lists for years. For things such as recruiting and using child soldiers, ethnic cleansing, and forced conscription.

This is who Turkey is attacking. Not "The Kurds", the attacks are against the PKK and their span groups. Look at almost every Syrian talking head that is screaming about these attacks. Every one is a member of the PKK or SDF. One of the most vocal has been General Mazloum Kobani Abdi. He paints himself as the leader of the Syrian Democratic Forces.

Remember that name from earlier? Well, the General is also well known as Mazlum Abdi, and many other names. He is Ferhat Abdi Sahin, and has been a member of the armed faction of the PKK since at least 1996.

I find it fascinating that other Kurdish groups are not being attacked in this "offensive", only the PKK and it's closest supporters. Not the Kurdish National Council (which has had it's own conflicts with the PKK), not the Kurdish Democratic Party of Syria, or any others that I have been able to find. Only the PKK.
 
Oozlefinch said:
One of the things I am finding most annoying in here is that people keep going on and on about what Turkey is doing, and nobody seems to give a damn about who they are actually fighting.

Turkey is not fighting the Kurds. This is first and foremost something that has to be recognized. Who they are actually going after is the PKK.

Now the PKK (Kurdistan Workers Party) is a Marxist-Communist group, founded in Turkey in 1978. For over 40 years they have been conducting attacks not only in Turkey, but against Turkish targets in other countries. They have bombed the Turkish consulate in France, and in the 1980's participated in training and intelligence operations with the PLO. They were also allied and supported by Syria for many years until diplomatic pressure from Turkey had them stop and expel the OPKK leadership in Syria in 1998.

In Syria, they and their sister group the People's Protection Units (YPG) in 2015formed a more "Politically Friendly" organization the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF). This was primarily made in order to get equipment and support from the US. And at the same time, a 2 year ceasefire between the PKK and Turkey broke down in the wake of the Suruc bombing. In that attack, an ISIS suicide bomber attacked a meeting of Marxists in Turkey and 33 Kurds were killed. And in the Turkish crackdown to try and round up the supporters of the attack, the PKK started attacking and killing the Turkish Police (killing at least 2 of them).

The PKK has worked with, and against ISIL. They have worked both with and against other Kurdish forces. But for years now they have been targets by almost everybody. And in the last several weeks, I have actually tried to find reports of Turkey attacking Kurds that are not allied with the PKK or SDF. And interestingly, I have not found any yet. Every Kurdish spokesman I have found making statements and every attack appears to be aimed only at the PKK-SDF.

In 2017, US Army General Raymond Thomas stated that the SDF was simply a "PR Front" for the PKK, and support for them should be ended. Defense Secretary Ashton Carter also stated that the PKK is a terrorist organization and should not be supported. DNI Daniel Coates stated that the SDF is part of the PKK, and should not be supported.

The US, NATO, EU, INTERPOL, and many other organizations officially recognize the PKK as a terrorist organization. The US even has a $25 million bounty on the capture of the 6 leading members of the PKK-YPG-SDF. Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International and other humanitarian groups have had them listed on their watch lists for years. For things such as recruiting and using child soldiers, ethnic cleansing, and forced conscription.

This is who Turkey is attacking. Not "The Kurds", the attacks are against the PKK and their span groups. Look at almost every Syrian talking head that is screaming about these attacks. Every one is a member of the PKK or SDF. One of the most vocal has been General Mazloum Kobani Abdi. He paints himself as the leader of the Syrian Democratic Forces.

Remember that name from earlier? Well, the General is also well known as Mazlum Abdi, and many other names. He is Ferhat Abdi Sahin, and has been a member of the armed faction of the PKK since at least 1996.

I find it fascinating that other Kurdish groups are not being attacked in this "offensive", only the PKK and it's closest supporters. Not the Kurdish National Council (which has had it's own conflicts with the PKK), not the Kurdish Democratic Party of Syria, or any others that I have been able to find. Only the PKK.
Click to expand...

I would be willing to bet that this thread does not get much attention. Way to many people don’t really want to talk about what is going and truth be told they don’t really care. All they care about is attacking trump and the actual facts don’t really matter. Is rather pathetic.

And I don’t even like trump and how he is impeached but that doesn’t mean I want to see more Americans die overseas just so I have another excuse to attack trump.
 
braindrain said:
I would be willing to bet that this thread does not get much attention. Way to many people don’t really want to talk about what is going and truth be told they don’t really care. All they care about is attacking trump and the actual facts don’t really matter. Is rather pathetic.
Click to expand...

Ok Trumpster.
 
dave8383 said:
Ok Trumpster.
Click to expand...

And thank you for proving me right. You should seek help. Suffering from extreme tds like you are is not healthy and no way to go through life.

I can’t stand trump and look forward to him being impeached. But that doesn’t stop me from looking at things objectively.
You quite obviously can’t.
 
There are a lot of people who agree with President Trump's decision on Turkey and Syria.

But they are afraid to speak out.

You can't blame them.

Americans have learned that to get along you have to go along.

That's just how the cookie crumbles in every country. The United States is no exception.

So in this matter, we are all expected to repeat: Trump bad; Turkey bad; Kurds good.
 
dave8383 said:
Sure Trumpie.
Click to expand...

Whatever helps you sleep at night. Maybe some day you will get over your. TDS. Hopefully trump will soon be gone and maybe you can get back to leading a normal life
 
As the Democratic Party's top official, Chuck Schumer said, anyone who won't do exactly what the intelligence community wants will be destroyed by the intelligence community. We have now watched the intelligence community non-stop trying to destroy President Trump.

A president refusing to go into a war they wanted? The last one to do so was JFK - Cuba and then Vietnam. We know what happened to him - and then his brother who also promised to get out of Vietnam - don't we?
 
Chagos said:
Reasons for the Turkish-Kurd conflict

The Suruc bombing incidentally led directly to Operation Martyr Yalçın in which Turkey bombed ISIL positions in Syria as well as Kurdish positions in Iraq.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am aware about that. But the Turkish attempt to run down the terrorists who planted the bomb led to the PKK killing the police investigating it. Which broke the cease fire and restarted their war with Turkey.

And in the latest news, President Trump and Turkey have reached a framework for a cease fire. One which the PKK has rejected. It was rejected by Saleh Muslim, the leader of the PYD, which is the political arm of the PKK.

Why do people want to stay asleep, and not realize that it is not a war against the Kurds, but against the PKK?
 
dave8383 said:
Ok Trumpster.
Click to expand...

Interesting, that you attack yet make absolutely no comment on the facts I have presented.

Are you that much in love with Marxists that you agree to distorting what is happening? Just because you hate the President?

That is deranged.
 
braindrain said:
I would be willing to bet that this thread does not get much attention. Way to many people don’t really want to talk about what is going and truth be told they don’t really care. All they care about is attacking trump and the actual facts don’t really matter. Is rather pathetic.

And I don’t even like trump and how he is impeached but that doesn’t mean I want to see more Americans die overseas just so I have another excuse to attack trump.
Click to expand...

This is something I have noticed as well. I bring up the PKK over and over again. Their ties to terrorism, the fact that they are wanted by many nations and international organizations as a terrorist group. That no other Kurdish group is being attacked but the PKK and it's closest allies.

And we actually had people try to defend the PKK! Claiming that they were not terrorists, and I was wrong.

Then we have those in here which feel this compulsion to try and derail the thread into something completely different, and not even mention the PKK. Or the fact that the President thought he had arranged a cease fire, which the PKK itself rejected today.

Well, obviously they are not getting all that badly "destroyed" if they refuse to even consider a cease fire. And also that they are not all just peacefully hiding out and trying to mind their own business as many are trying to insist.

I think this is the problem I have, in that I do not simply accept what others tell me, but feel the need to research things myself. And in this case, the first thing I noticed over and over again is that every bit of information coming from "The Kurds" is actually from the PKK. The PKK is condemning Turkey, but amazingly I have yet to find another Kurdish group that is either being attacked, or condemning Turkey. Those basic facts alone should scream to anybody with even half a brain that things are not all as they are being presented.

And the fact that only a few of us are even trying to discuss the facts is another. I expected little response, because I have seen in the last 3 years that a lot of people like being sheep. Sheep do not have to think, sheep do not have to do things like "research". It is much easier to simply have somebody else point them at something and tell them where to baa, how to baa, and when to baa.

Four Legs Good, Two Legs Bad. Baa.

All Animals Are Equal, But Some Animals Are More Equal Than Others. Baa.

Napoleon is Always Right. Baa.

Four Legs Good, Two Legs Better. Baa.
 
braindrain said:
And I don’t even like trump and how he is impeached but that doesn’t mean I want to see more Americans die overseas just so I have another excuse to attack trump.
Click to expand...

And this is what I also find the most annoying.

I do not like President Trump. I did a write-in for a Democrat in the last election. However, that does not stop me from saying that at times I do agree with him.

And interestingly enough, I did the same thing with President Obama. I did not like a lot that he did, but if he did something I agreed with, I had no problem stating so. Often to the screams and condemnation of those with ODS.

I admit I thoroughly dislike Senator Bernie Sanders. And at the same time, I quickly applauded and gave him a "virtual" pat on the back when in 2016 he condemned his supporters who attacked Trump Supporters at rallies. If I have one firm belief, it is that individuals have the right to express support for any legal candidate or belief, and it should be without fear of attacks. I absolutely condemn Communists, Anarchists, and Klukkers. But I will always defend their right to peaceful speech and protest.

As a moderate, I have absolutely no expectation that I will ever agree with a politician (or other individual) 100% of the time. But I have absolutely no problem calling things as I see them. Each on a case by case basis, based upon the merits of that individual decision. Not going "Well, Person A said such-and-such about THIS, so I will never agree with him and say anything they say is bad, even if it deals with THAT". I honestly see that kind of thinking as not only childish, but as the symptom of a mental illness.

And I see TDS as bad as I did ODS. And BDS, and CDS.
 
dave8383 said:
I'm sorry, what are you talking about?
Click to expand...

Here. Since you seem to be suffering from short term memory issues, here is the topic:

Oozlefinch said:
One of the things I am finding most annoying in here is that people keep going on and on about what Turkey is doing, and nobody seems to give a damn about who they are actually fighting.

Turkey is not fighting the Kurds. This is first and foremost something that has to be recognized. Who they are actually going after is the PKK.

Now the PKK (Kurdistan Workers Party) is a Marxist-Communist group, founded in Turkey in 1978. For over 40 years they have been conducting attacks not only in Turkey, but against Turkish targets in other countries. They have bombed the Turkish consulate in France, and in the 1980's participated in training and intelligence operations with the PLO. They were also allied and supported by Syria for many years until diplomatic pressure from Turkey had them stop and expel the OPKK leadership in Syria in 1998.

In Syria, they and their sister group the People's Protection Units (YPG) in 2015formed a more "Politically Friendly" organization the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF). This was primarily made in order to get equipment and support from the US. And at the same time, a 2 year ceasefire between the PKK and Turkey broke down in the wake of the Suruc bombing. In that attack, an ISIS suicide bomber attacked a meeting of Marxists in Turkey and 33 Kurds were killed. And in the Turkish crackdown to try and round up the supporters of the attack, the PKK started attacking and killing the Turkish Police (killing at least 2 of them).

The PKK has worked with, and against ISIL. They have worked both with and against other Kurdish forces. But for years now they have been targets by almost everybody. And in the last several weeks, I have actually tried to find reports of Turkey attacking Kurds that are not allied with the PKK or SDF. And interestingly, I have not found any yet. Every Kurdish spokesman I have found making statements and every attack appears to be aimed only at the PKK-SDF.

In 2017, US Army General Raymond Thomas stated that the SDF was simply a "PR Front" for the PKK, and support for them should be ended. Defense Secretary Ashton Carter also stated that the PKK is a terrorist organization and should not be supported. DNI Daniel Coates stated that the SDF is part of the PKK, and should not be supported.

The US, NATO, EU, INTERPOL, and many other organizations officially recognize the PKK as a terrorist organization. The US even has a $25 million bounty on the capture of the 6 leading members of the PKK-YPG-SDF. Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International and other humanitarian groups have had them listed on their watch lists for years. For things such as recruiting and using child soldiers, ethnic cleansing, and forced conscription.

This is who Turkey is attacking. Not "The Kurds", the attacks are against the PKK and their span groups. Look at almost every Syrian talking head that is screaming about these attacks. Every one is a member of the PKK or SDF. One of the most vocal has been General Mazloum Kobani Abdi. He paints himself as the leader of the Syrian Democratic Forces.

Remember that name from earlier? Well, the General is also well known as Mazlum Abdi, and many other names. He is Ferhat Abdi Sahin, and has been a member of the armed faction of the PKK since at least 1996.

I find it fascinating that other Kurdish groups are not being attacked in this "offensive", only the PKK and it's closest supporters. Not the Kurdish National Council (which has had it's own conflicts with the PKK), not the Kurdish Democratic Party of Syria, or any others that I have been able to find. Only the PKK.
Click to expand...

It is not President Trump, it is not your own personal politics.

I can only guess that you do not even care who or what the PKK is, but if you think that President Trump is against them, you must be for them.
 
Oozlefinch said:
Here. Since you seem to be suffering from short term memory issues, here is the topic:



It is not President Trump, it is not your own personal politics.

I can only guess that you do not even care who or what the PKK is, but if you think that President Trump is against them, you must be for them.
Click to expand...

I see. The fact is I didn't comment on the PKK, but you're entilted to think whatever you want. And no, my short term memory is fine, but thank you for your concern. How's yours?
 
Oozlefinch said:
Yes, I am aware about that. But the Turkish attempt to run down the terrorists who planted the bomb led to the PKK killing the police investigating it. Which broke the cease fire and restarted their war with Turkey.

And in the latest news, President Trump and Turkey have reached a framework for a cease fire. One which the PKK has rejected. It was rejected by Saleh Muslim, the leader of the PYD, which is the political arm of the PKK.

Why do people want to stay asleep, and not realize that it is not a war against the Kurds, but against the PKK?
Click to expand...
Most of the people commenting on this couldnt spell 'Kurd' prior to a week and a half ago if you spotted them the Ku and the d and wouldnt nor couldnt give the first **** about them. The only reason they talk about them now is simple....

orange man bad.
 
"What is the PKK and what's behind Turkey's war in Syria? | Euronews Answers

By Euronews • last updated: 16/10/2019 - 18:01
Volume 90%


Turkey started a military operation to Syria on October 9 after U.S. President Donald Trump announced that American forces were pulling out of the country. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan saying he wants a 'safe zone' on Turkey's southern border.

Safety from who?

The operation is targeting the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) led by the Peoples Protection Units (YPG), who were backed by the U.S. in their fight against Islamic State. Turkey is concerned about the YPG, and the swathe of territory that the Syrian Kurds now control in north-eastern Syria.

The YPG has historic links with the PKK, who are listed as a 'terrorist organisation' by many including the UN and the EU. They have been fighting the Turkish state for some three decades.

The PKK was formed in the 1980s by Abdullah Öcalan, who has been in jail in Turkey since 1999. Although the government and the PKK negotiated a ceasefire in 2013, it broke down two years later..

There are around 15 million Kurds in Turkey, where they make up around 18% of the population. Many of Turkey's Kurds support the People's Democratic Party (HDP), which Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan accuses of being linked to the PKK, something the party denies."

What is the PKK and what's behind Turkey's war in Syria? | Euronews Answers
 
VanceMack said:
Most of the people commenting on this couldnt spell 'Kurd' prior to a week and a half ago if you spotted them the Ku and the d and wouldnt nor couldnt give the first **** about them. The only reason they talk about them now is simple....

orange man bad.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure most people were introduced to the Kurds after the 1st Gulf War, if not long before. Of course depending on how old you are.
 
Oozlefinch said:
Yes, I am aware about that. But the Turkish attempt to run down the terrorists who planted the bomb led to the PKK killing the police investigating it. Which broke the cease fire and restarted their war with Turkey.

And in the latest news, President Trump and Turkey have reached a framework for a cease fire. One which the PKK has rejected. It was rejected by Saleh Muslim, the leader of the PYD, which is the political arm of the PKK.

Why do people want to stay asleep, and not realize that it is not a war against the Kurds, but against the PKK?
Click to expand...
I think the ongoing (historical) oppression of Kurds by the Turks mentioned in the link I provided, should show that the conflict started well before 1978.

One shouldn't stay asleep over that, if indeed one has ever fallen into slumber.

If one wants to singularly put the whole thing down to the founding of the PKK, respectively that sole date, one misses the point that terrorism that arose was never limited to one side and is, by our comfortable standards from where we sit, as inexcusable with the one as with the other. I mention our comfort here because one isn't prone to peacefulness when oppressed as the Kurds of Turkey have been since the founding of the Republic nearly a hundred years ago.

I'm incidentally not interested either in muddying the waters of historical accounting with the insane obsessions, negative or positive, over a US president that wasn't even born when all this started. That he appears somewhat ignorant of the history of the area and the conflict is no reason to start that, seeing how it's hardly a novelty and hardly confined to just that one person.
 
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