who is the worse president in our history?

[Vandeervecken]

Yes, all of these men were horrible Presidents except Reagan, though himself was only mediocre.

I disagree for the reasons I listed and more I think Ronnie was an epic error.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Axismaster
Yes, all of these men were horrible Presidents except Reagan, though himself was only mediocre.

Ronald Reagan sucked as a President. Have you ever heard of "Iran-Contra"?

 

[-Demosthenes-]

Filmore - his bumbling made the civil war inevitable and destroyed what had been the most powerful party in the US at the time.

I think that you're thinking of "sectional differences," and he was never president. If anyone is responsible for the start of the civil war it would be Filmore, Buchanan, and ultimately Lincoln, but against it was inevitable.

 

[LeftyHenry]

Bush - Owned by the House of Saud, utter mismanagement of the war on terror, borrow and spend nightmare of a budget killer, right wing Christian stooge, assaulting the 4th amendment, etc.

Nixon- Assaulting the constitution in many ways, broke the bonds of trust between government and governed in a way that has gotten worse rather than gotten better.

Reagan - Sold arms to terrorists, exiled our children's future to the phantom zone of unimaginable debt, ignored the AIDS epidemic for years till it killed a friend of his, was the first of the GOP line that has created the current GOP Noise machine that relies utterly on disinformation and libel/slander. Hugely corrupt administration.

Harding - Almost as corrupt as Regan and the current Bush.

Filmore - his bumbling made the civil war inevitable and destroyed what had been the most powerful party in the US at the time.

Perfect list. I would replace Harding for Hoover because Hoover's trickle down policy plunged us deeper into the great depression. If FDR hadn't been elected, Hoover could've easily destroyed our country. Thank God! FDR came in and made a socialist state which reinstilled trust in our banks and god the jobless back on our feet.

Have to say though that I don't know much about about Filmore so I trade Jackson into that spot because of his Indian Removal act of the 1830's. AKA the trail of Tears,

 

[Comrade Brian]

I agreed with Che, though FDR didn't make a socialist state. He actually introduced his policies to save capitalism, which as it turns out, most capitalists don't thank him for it either. Capitalism probably would have been overthrown in the US were it not for FDR's policies, but I still think he was one of the better presidents, despite also racism towards Japanese.

Also about every early-mid/late 19th cen. president practised destruction of the Native Americans. Though Jackson I have to admit was one of the worst on that subject. Also the I'm from Minnesota, and during the Civil War, there was an uprising by the Indians, which unfortunately led to the deaths of hundreds. Also I believe it led to the the largest mass execution in US history, in Mankato 32 were hanged, though it would have been more if Lincoln hadn't commuted some of the sentences. Kind of shows the US govt., or any govt. for that matter, that when you push, it pushes back, to not be alienated.

 

[LeftyHenry]

there was an uprising by the Indians, which unfortunately led to the deaths of hundreds. Also I believe it led to the the largest mass execution in US history, in Mankato 32 were hanged, though it would have been more if Lincoln hadn't commuted some of the sentences. Kind of shows the US govt., or any govt. for that matter, that when you push, it pushes back, to not be alienated.

Yeah, The Dakota uprising. The executions actually happend on Christmas day.

The uprising happened for many reasons but chief among them was the fact that the land they were moved to wasn't hunting land so they had to sell all their land to get money to buy much needed food.

 

[Red_Dave]

George W. Bush is the first President to start a totally unprovoked war and lie like Satan to get support for the war. QUOTE]

No he,s not. What about vietnam? that was completely unprovoked.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Red_Dave
No he,s not. What about vietnam? that was completely unprovoked.

Not if you ask the Vietnamese in regards to the French.

 

[Vandeervecken]

Not if you ask the Vietnamese in regards to the French.

I believe he/she was referring to the US involvement in Vietnam. Which was totally unprovoked.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Vandeervecken
I believe he/she was referring to the US involvement in Vietnam. Which was totally unprovoked.

I know. I was just trying to leave the illusion that I am smart.

 

[Synch]

George W. Bush is the first President to start a totally unprovoked war and lie like Satan to get support for the war. QUOTE]

No he,s not. What about vietnam? that was completely unprovoked.

In Vietnam we were defending our allies in an attempt to stop them from getting overruned by Communism, we were really fighting for Democracy, Iraq was peaceful and properous before our attack, and now the entire country is in turmoil, hundreds of thousands have died, and the economy is in ruins, not to mention we've turned it into a theocracy.

 

[Vandeervecken]

In Vietnam we were defending our allies in an attempt to stop them from getting overruned by Communism, we were really fighting for Democracy, Iraq was peaceful and properous before our attack, and now the entire country is in turmoil, hundreds of thousands have died, and the economy is in ruins, not to mention we've turned it into a theocracy.

Surely you jest? The South Vietnamese were not democratic, and prior to our involvement were never our allies. They were a French Colony prior to WWII, then the Japanese took them over, then when Japan was defeated the French wanted their colony back. The Vietnamese after more than 5 centuries of occupation by a parade of foreign powers wanted self-determination.

 

[Synch]

Surely you jest? The South Vietnamese were not democratic, and prior to our involvement were never our allies. They were a French Colony prior to WWII, then the Japanese took them over, then when Japan was defeated the French wanted their colony back. The Vietnamese after more than 5 centuries of occupation by a parade of foreign powers wanted self-determination.

Still completely different circumstance than Iraq, they were in a state of war, and invading them and helping the South may possibly spread Democracy during the cold war. Iraq was stable, peaceful, and properous. No doubt they had little personal freedom, but they had security. :roll: Now that they do have Democracy, and Saddam was removed, they have lost that. :doh

 

[SixStringHero]

Anyone who claims Bush is the worst at this point is merely speculating, and I might add that such a claim is quite pre-emptive considering his term isn't even over with.

 

[The Real McCoy]

In Vietnam we were defending our allies in an attempt to stop them from getting overruned by Communism, we were really fighting for Democracy, Iraq was peaceful and properous before our attack

Tell that to the Iraqis that Saddam didn't like.

and now the entire country is in turmoil

It hasn't even been 3 years. Give it time.

hundreds of thousands have died

Whoa, got a source for that absurd claim? Unless you're talking about the innocents Hussein had murdered...

and the economy is in ruins

The Baghdad Stock Exchange is doing pretty well actually. In fact, most economic barometers are back to or above pre-war levels.

not to mention we've turned it into a theocracy.

Hardly... Again, source?

 

[Synch]

Tell that to the Iraqis that Saddam didn't like.

The general iraqi people was properous and there was peace.

It hasn't even been 3 years. Give it time.

I thought we liberated Iraq, not ruined it. We've made it worse, how is that good or successful? 2/3 of the iraqi people want us out.

Whoa, got a source for that absurd claim? Unless you're talking about the innocents Hussein had murdered...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3962969.stm

The # of innocent Saddam murdered does not compare to how many Iraqis have died under the hands of us.

The Baghdad Stock Exchange is doing pretty well actually. In fact, most economic barometers are back to or above pre-war levels.

Stocks mean nothing, they are easily manipulated, insurgency bombing has driven up the oil prices. And source?

Hardly... Again, source?

go read the Iraqi Constitution.

 

[easyt65]

My Goodness

Wow, Dragonslayer - after reading the 1st few posts, I had to check the title of this thread again. I thought for sure I had stumbled into the DNC Crack-Smoking Forum!

I find it funny that the 1st 2 presidents that you, and several others that followed, mentioned as the worst President's in History were Bush Senior and Bush Jr. Even though I was impressed that Carter, a Democrat, was actually named in the top 3 (I would expect Reagan's name to be thrown in with such GOP-Bashing going on), I found it down-right hillarious that Slick Willey was not at the head of the list...or even ON the list for that matter!

During his 1st campaign, he told the American people that he had never smoked pot, that he had never protested the Viet Nam War from the Soviet Union, and other Whoppers. After being caught on these lies, definite signs of things to come, he made up even more ridiculous lies to cover up his 1st ones...like the famous "I didn't INHALE" defense about his smoking pot! :lamo

The public just ate him up, though, and let all that cr@p slide. Once in office, he showed that his campaign gaffs were just a warm-up as he began treating the Office/position of the President and the nation he was there to serve as his own personal whore!

There were so many hyphenated '-gate' scandals during his 2 administrations that if he would have copy-writed the phrase, he would have made billions! The amazing thing was that, despite scandal after scandal, so many people STILL put up with his BS and re-elected him....then feigned being shocked when the next big scandal, especially the Lewinski scandal, errupted!

Some of the highlights of that man's Presidency also include:

Al Qaeda bombed the Kobar towers, killing US troops, then promised more - Clinton did NOTHING!

Al Qaeda bombed the USS Cole, killing US Troops, then promised more - Clinton AGAIN did NOTHING!

Al Qaeda bombed 2 African Embassies, killing US personnel - Clinton AGAIN did NOTHING!

Able Danger warned Clinton about Osama and Al Qaeda - Clinton sent Sandy Berger last year to steal and shred classified documents which showed how Able danger had warned him and what he failed to do as President!

Clinton made it possible for his Arkansas buddy to sell the Chinese the missile technology that finally made it possible for them to reach the US with their missiles in exchange for millions in campaign contributions tracked directly back to the Chinese military!

Clinton not only wire tapped Americans without warrants, but he also ordered the illegal entry into private homes and businesses as well as search and seizure of those locations without warrants!

Clinton had FBI files on every GOP Senator and congressman as well as other opponents that he kept illegally in the White House....

He commited adultery in the White House, made the U.S. a laughing stock throughout the rest of the world ( I know because I was stationed overseas and had to endure and live through the jokes at our nation's expense), lied to America on TV ( I did not have sex with that woman!:rofl Dude, save it for your wife!), committed and was convicted of a felony for lying under oath to a federal grand jury in his attempt to deny an American the right to a fair trial, a right afforded to her under the constitution that he had sworn an oath to defending, in order to save his own butt, was Impeached (1 of only 3 in U.S. history, all Democrats, BTW), and He, his family, and staff vandalized Goverment property (White House and offices) and stole anything that wasn't nailed down on the way out, like some kind of white trash, AGAIN embarrasing the U.S. and the Office of the President.

Even almost 6 yeasrs AFTER he is out of office, we are still having to endure his continued scandals, as Sandy Burgalar, er Bereger, was caught stuffing classified documents down his pants, taking them home, and shredding them. The documents were about Able Danger, what Clinton knew, and what he failed to do as President because he ws too busy milking America and being milked BY Lewinski!

And he STILL doesn't rank up there in your top 3 worst Presidents ever?!

Truly Amazing! :applaud

BTW, the Title of the Thread should be 'Worst', not 'worse'.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by easyt65
Wow, Dragonslayer - after reading the 1st few posts, I had to check the title of this thread again. I thought for sure I had stumbled into the DNC Crack-Smoking Forum!

I find it funny that the 1st 2 presidents that you, and several others that followed, mentioned as the worst President's in History were Bush Senior and Bush Jr. Even though I was impressed that Carter, a Democrat, was actually named in the top 3 (I would expect Reagan's name to be thrown in with such GOP-Bashing going on), I found it down-right hillarious that Slick Willey was not at the head of the list...or even ON the list for that matter!

During his 1st campaign, he told the American people that he had never smoked pot, that he had never protested the Viet Nam War from the Soviet Union, and other Whoppers. After being caught on these lies, definite signs of things to come, he made up even more ridiculous lies to cover up his 1st ones...like the famous "I didn't INHALE" defense about his smoking pot!

The public just ate him up, though, and let all that cr@p slide. Once in office, he showed that his campaign gaffs were just a warm-up as he began treating the Office/position of the President and the nation he was there to serve as his own personal whore!

There were so many hyphenated '-gate' scandals during his 2 administrations that if he would have copy-writed the phrase, he would have made billions! The amazing thing was that, despite scandal after scandal, so many people STILL put up with his BS and re-elected him....then feigned being shocked when the next big scandal, especially the Lewinski scandal, errupted!

Some of the highlights of that man's Presidency also include:

Al Qaeda bombed the Kobar towers, killing US troops, then promised more - Clinton did NOTHING!

Al Qaeda bombed the USS Cole, killing US Troops, then promised more - Clinton AGAIN did NOTHING!

Al Qaeda bombed 2 African Embassies, killing US personnel - Clinton AGAIN did NOTHING!

Able Danger warned Clinton about Osama and Al Qaeda - Clinton sent Sandy Berger last year to steal and shred classified documents which showed how Able danger had warned him and what he failed to do as President!

Clinton made it possible for his Arkansas buddy to sell the Chinese the missile technology that finally made it possible for them to reach the US with their missiles in exchange for millions in campaign contributions tracked directly back to the Chinese military!

Clinton not only wire tapped Americans without warrants, but he also ordered the illegal entry into private homes and businesses as well as search and seizure of those locations without warrants!

Clinton had FBI files on every GOP Senator and congressman as well as other opponents that he kept illegally in the White House....

He commited adultery in the White House, made the U.S. a laughing stock throughout the rest of the world ( I know because I was stationed overseas and had to endure and live through the jokes at our nation's expense), lied to America on TV ( I did not have sex with that woman! Dude, save it for your wife!), committed and was convicted of a felony for lying under oath to a federal grand jury in his attempt to deny an American the right to a fair trial, a right afforded to her under the constitution that he had sworn an oath to defending, in order to save his own butt, was Impeached (1 of only 3 in U.S. history, all Democrats, BTW), and He, his family, and staff vandalized Goverment property (White House and offices) and stole anything that wasn't nailed down on the way out, like some kind of white trash, AGAIN embarrasing the U.S. and the Office of the President.

Even almost 6 yeasrs AFTER he is out of office, we are still having to endure his continued scandals, as Sandy Burgalar, er Bereger, was caught stuffing classified documents down his pants, taking them home, and shredding them. The documents were about Able Danger, what Clinton knew, and what he failed to do as President because he ws too busy milking America and being milked BY Lewinski!

And he STILL doesn't rank up there in your top 3 worst Presidents ever?!

Truly Amazing!

So your against the Patriot Act. Good for you!

 

[The Real McCoy]

The general iraqi people was properous and there was peace.

Compared to whom? Sub-Saharan indigenous tribes? Where do you get your information? Michael Moore?

I thought we liberated Iraq, not ruined it. We've made it worse, how is that good or successful? 2/3 of the iraqi people want us out.

We did liberate Iraq. "Ruined" is nothing more than hyperbole. And again, it hasn't even been 3 years. Have you no patience?

And I'll take the word of the military commanders on the ground there, including my brother who's training Iraqi security forces as we speak, over the opinion of a civilian population on when the appropriate time to withdrawl should be.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3962969.stm

The # of innocent Saddam murdered does not compare to how many Iraqis have died under the hands of us.

You're right, Saddam had way more slaughtered.

I'm having trouble accessing multiple sites at the moment, my IE is acting up but I'm willing to bet your little BBC link spews that fabricated 100,000 civillian deaths number. If so, that number was an average aderived from an estimate of between 8,000 and 194,000 (100,000 being roughly in the middle.) The more credible sources put the civillian death toll at around 30,000.

Regardless, even if the number is 100,000, this is still less than the number of Iraqi people that Hussein had murdered.

A quick google of "Saddam Hussein genocide" shall yield the numbers that elude you.

Stocks mean nothing, they are easily manipulated, insurgency bombing has driven up the oil prices. And source?

Funny, oil production is above pre-war levels (~2.4 million bbl/day at present vs. 2.02 million bbl/day in 2002)

Again, I can't provide a link at the moment but ask the almighty google and ye shall receive.

go read the Iraqi Constitution.

The one that allows women to vote? Yea, real big theocracy.

 

[Harshaw]

IGeorge W. Bush is the first President to start a totally unprovoked war

Actually, that would be William J. Clinton. He attacked Yugoslavia -- ignoring the UN mind you -- over an entirely internal Yugoslav affair.

 

[hipsterdufus]

Anyone who claims Bush is the worst at this point is merely speculating, and I might add that such a claim is quite pre-emptive considering his term isn't even over with.

If Bush's term ended today, I think he would go down in history as the worst president ever. How's that?

 

[LeftyHenry]

Actually, that would be William J. Clinton. He attacked Yugoslavia -- ignoring the UN mind you -- over an entirely internal Yugoslav affair.

Uh.. maybe but I don't recall him giing 2000+ soldiers and 100,000 civilians in the process

 

[Harshaw]

Uh.. maybe but I don't recall him giing 2000+ soldiers and 100,000 civilians in the process

Irrelevant to whether or not he was the first President to start an unprovoked war.

(I see you accepted the "100,000 civilians" number wholesale. We believe what we want to believe . . . I suppose you also believe that Ernesto Guevara was some kind of champion of freedom and human rights?)

 

[-Demosthenes-]

Perfect list. I would replace Harding for Hoover because Hoover's trickle down policy plunged us deeper into the great depression. If FDR hadn't been elected, Hoover could've easily destroyed our country. Thank God! FDR came in and made a socialist state which reinstilled trust in our banks and god the jobless back on our feet.

Yes, yes we're all familiar with the leftist view of history. Please refrain from posting partisan history, it is entirely too annoying.

Still completely different circumstance than Iraq, they were in a state of war, and invading them and helping the South may possibly spread Democracy during the cold war. Iraq was stable, peaceful, and properous [sic]. No doubt they had little personal freedom, but they had security. Now that they do have Democracy, and Saddam was removed, they have lost that.

Ah, priorities. Through history man has tried to define what is more important, security or freedom. Is it a life that you are protected but oppressed? Where speaking against the government is death, but if you if you stay quiet you are fed, physically safe, and overall taken care of.

What I can't see is if "security" is so much more important then why don't we install Bush as an ultimate ruler of the US? Sure we might have less freedom, but there would be more stability, surely we would all be fed. Or does you rationale only work for Muslims?

not to mention we've turned it into a theocracy.

Hardly... Again, source?

Partisan garbage neither has nor needs sources.

The general iraqi people was properous [sic] and there was peace.

See?

I thought we liberated Iraq, not ruined it. We've made it worse, how is that good or successful? 2/3 of the iraqi [sic] people want us out.

Again, see?

The # of innocent Saddam murdered does not compare to how many Iraqis have died under the hands of us.

Hey some Saddam security:

Saddam's internal security regime achieved notoriety for its extreme ruthlessness. In 1982, an assassination attempt was mounted against Saddam in the town of Dujail 40 km (25 miles) north of Baghdad; Saddam's security forces attacked the town, killing and executing up to 137 of its inhabitants, including a number of children. Around 1,500 townspeople were sent to prison and tortured. The entire town was also punished by having 1,000 square kilometres (250,000 acres) of farmland destroyed; replanting was only permitted 10 years later. The events in Dujail became the subject of criminal charges following Saddam's overthrow in 2003.

Hey some more security:

During Saddam's regime, some 3-4 million people fled the country to escape the regime's brutality. An estimated 1 million people were massacred by the regime. To date, 260 mass graves have been found in Iraq with more than 400,000 bodies buried in them. Videotapes showing the brutality of the regime are difficult to watch and should not be seen by children. The Foundation for the Defense of Democracies makes four videos available on their website.

As many as 50,000 killed in an invasion versus at least 400,000 maybe as many as a million.

Bush may not be a good president, he may be a horrible president, but is it worth trying to justify Saddam's acts to try to discredit him? How much could Bush have done wrong if the only way to tarnish his reputation is to put Saddam on a pedestal, the man who tortured and killed nearly a million people? At times we have had to make the chose between two evils, some chose the lessor of those two evils, but you chose the greater.

If Bush's term ended today, I think he would go down in history as the worst president ever. How's that?

Having a day's retrospect I'd be hard-pressed not you call you historically illiterate.

 

[Landslide84]

Hey everybody, I just joined this forum

As for the worst president in our history...I think that Martin Van Buren needs to be looked at seriously as a bad president. He was even nicknamed "Martin Van Ruin" due to the horrible economic times that he was faced with, not to mention his party (DEMOCRATIC) losing elections during his term. He should be seriously considered for the Worst President in our history. Although, I would not really like to call any president HORRIBLE....they are elected and do take an oath. Without Presidents, lord only knows where our country might be.