Who Finds the Swetnick Claims credible

[TurtleDude]

How do you know he was falsely accused.Were you there?

you actually make a decent point. we cannot know given the paucity of evidence Ford has mustered to support her claims. Some accusations may well be 100% accurate but our society -and rightfully so-do not act upon them because they are bereft of supporting evidence. In this case-and I realize using the term "fault" upsets so many people who want Ford to be seen as credible-the fault is solely due to Ford. She never timely reported this (lets not get into this area its not relevant to determining whether her claim is believable) and thus there was no ability for an investigation to take place and preserve evidence, interview witnesses when the events were fresh in their minds etc.

with no place no date and no person named who can support her claims, we cannot deem her claims sufficiently supported to act on them. Plus, her own actions undercut the veracity of her claims

 

[lurchadams]

Are you familiar at all with "Federation of Hold My Beer, I Got This"?

Not the best, but a close contender for best is the breakdown of how come humans - being completely, utterly, insane - were actually the best species to take on the Borg. The Borg had assimilated great tacticians - they were ready for incredible tactical thinkers. The Borg had assimilated great engineers - they were ready for incredible technology. The Borg had assimilated species after species - they were ready for numbers.

...What they were not ready for was for the enemy captain to lure them into Film Noir, put on a really cool hat, and then shoot them full of hard light. Nowhere, anywhere, had they run into a species where that was the go-to solution for being taken over. :mrgreen:

Wow, is this a story you're writing? I don't recall any ST episode that went like that. Is this a reference to Janeway? She's the one who most took on the Borg in any Star Trek genre.

 

[lurchadams]

Q gave Data the gift of laughter - but not emotions (would not curse him with becoming human). Data even studied the concept of humor, but was unable to achieve his goal - watch more Star Trek!!

OMG, please tell me you weren't researching that. Is that where you've been all this time? You don't have to answer.

 

[DiAnna]

If there was a scale from 1 to 10, Swetnick is somewhere around a 3-4 at best.

Although there is at least one other allegation that is even less credible, that one about Kavanaugh and a friend of his raping someone in a car on the way home from a party (anonymous letter).

I'd put Dr. Blasey's allegation around a 7 or 8 at least, on the same scale.


Edit: I'm basically judging this on the amount of information about each allegation we have.

Swetnick is thus higher credibility than that anonymous letter that provided nothing which could be confirmed because not even the town it took place in is given, let alone the time, place, other involved persons, or anything like that.

To me all anonymous letters are worthless.

Sure, women can contact their representatives, law enforcement, etc., and request anonymity... but bottom line, that request will be filed under "ignored" unless that woman is willing to take the same kind of heat that the man they are accusing will take.

I believe survivors; I am a survivor, just like most women who have spent a few decades in the world as we know it. I don't talk about it much; few women do. Sexual harassment and assault is not something most of us are proud of; just the opposite. We have shame, embarrassment and guilt, whether it's logical or not; we still feel it.

But if you want your story to stop a flawed individual from advancing in a career where he will be in a position of power for which you believe he is unsuitable, either be willing to go all in and put yourself at risk, or keep your mouth shut and remain safely shuttered in your cocoon of silence. Both options are your right to choose, and yours alone.

However, anonymous letters? Worthless. Completely, totally, utterly worthless.

 

[Sykes]

To me all anonymous letters are worthless.

Sure, women can contact their representatives, law enforcement, etc., and request anonymity... but bottom line, that request will be filed under "ignored" unless that woman is willing to take the same kind of heat that the man they are accusing will take.

I believe survivors; I am a survivor, just like most women who have spent a few decades in the world as we know it. I don't talk about it much; few women do. Sexual harassment and assault is not something most of us are proud of; just the opposite. We have shame, embarrassment and guilt, whether it's logical or not; we still feel it.

But if you want your story to stop a flawed individual from advancing in a career where he will be in a position of power for which you believe he is unsuitable, either be willing to go all in and put yourself at risk, or keep your mouth shut and remain safely shuttered in your cocoon of silence. Both options are your right to choose, and yours alone.

However, anonymous letters? Worthless. Completely, totally, utterly worthless.

No paradigm shifts with the knowledge that if she gives up her anonymity, she will be treated to death threats?

 

[DiAnna]

No paradigm shifts with the knowledge that if she gives up her anonymity, she will be treated to death threats?

No, I'm afraid not. These are serious allegations made on a national scale; that's why I imagine the lion's share of these experiences never see the light of day, and why Dr. Ford's testimony was so credible to me. She knew what she would face, yet she faced it.

I say to all women, stand up for what you believe is right... for yourself, for your family, for your civic duty... there is no shame in simply keeping the past in the past to protect your family; do not yield to outside pressure to tell your story if you know it will destroy your life and the life of your family.

But if you do stand up, for whatever reason you choose, then we as a society should treat you with dignity and respect, knowing the price that you have paid to do so. That is not happening with Dr. Ford; and it breaks my heart.

 

[TurtleDude]

No paradigm shifts with the knowledge that if she gives up her anonymity, she will be treated to death threats?

she should have reported this to law enforcement-not politicians

 

[cpwill]

Wow, is this a story you're writing? I don't recall any ST episode that went like that. Is this a reference to Janeway? She's the one who most took on the Borg in any Star Trek genre.

Nah. That's from First Contact.

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[cpwill]

No, I'm afraid not. These are serious allegations made on a national scale; that's why I imagine the lion's share of these experiences never see the light of day, and why Dr. Ford's testimony was so credible to me. She knew what she would face, yet she faced it.

I say to all women, stand up for what you believe is right... for yourself, for your family, for your civic duty... there is no shame in simply keeping the past in the past to protect your family; do not yield to outside pressure to tell your story if you know it will destroy your life and the life of your family.

But if you do stand up, for whatever reason you choose, then we as a society should treat you with dignity and respect, knowing the price that you have paid to do so. That is not happening with Dr. Ford; and it breaks my heart.

See, this kind of "Believe The Accuser In Order To Stand Up For All Women" logic makes emotional sense, but actually makes it harder to honestly assess data.

Believe The Evidence.

 

[Kreton]

This is the woman who said she attended 9-10 parties where she saw girls being drugged and then gang raped by boys. She claims she attended some of these High School Parties as a college student and finally, she too was drugged and then had several High school boys have vaginal sex with her. She never claimed Kavanaugh did this to HER nor can she name anyone else but him, but she claims she saw him standing in line to have sex with one or more of the other girls. She has extensive issues in her background including having a restraining order taken out against her by a former boyfriend

I take every claim of sexual assault seriously so that would include this one. Glad to hear the FBI will check into it as well as the others. In my opinion her claim raises a lot more questions than some of the others but that doesn't make it untrue and it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Also there is absolutely no relevance to her having a restraining order taken out by a boyfriend. Just because a woman makes questionable decisions in life doesn't mean that she wasn't assaulted. It is ignorant to try to discredit a claim of a sexual crime because a woman hasn't lived a perfect life.

 

[Phys251]

Actually, I"m asking you if you still believe a woman who claimed, as an adult, to have attended years worth of booze and sex parties for minors, and who has since (apparently she was interviewed on television tonight) changed her story in major, material ways. I'm giving you a chance to adjust your position due to this new information.

Actually, I'm asking you if you still believe a man who claimed, as an adult, that he first learned of Ramirez's allegations after the story was published on Sept. 23, that he never went to such parties as his creepy calendars describe, that he drunk in moderation yet drunk so hard the night of Ford's allegation he couldn't remember it, that the legal drinking age at the time was 18 and not 21, that boofing = farting, etc. etc. etc., he has changed his story in major, material ways. I'm giving you a chance to adjust your position due to this new information.

 

[cpwill]

Actually, I'm asking you if you still believe a man who claimed, as an adult, that he first learned of Ramirez's allegations after the story was published on Sept. 23, that he never went to such parties as his creepy calendars describe, that he drunk in moderation yet drunk so hard the night of Ford's allegation he couldn't remember it, that the legal drinking age at the time was 18 and not 21, that boofing = farting, etc. etc. etc., he has changed his story in major, material ways. I'm giving you a chance to adjust your position due to this new information.

Wow. You really, desperately, do not want to answer the question of whether or not you are reassessing your brelief in this woman.

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[apdst]

Should we have a new poll?

 

[AlbqOwl]

I don’t know. It seems over the top but I know for a fact there are people like that. Especially back then there were women who, while they didn’t approve of such behavior, just accepted it as the way the world was. There ARE rape victims who look the other way when other women are raped. There ARE rape victims who continue to travel in the same social circles as their rapist.

Women are human and humans vary greatly in their responses to traumatic events. I have seen way too many people behave in counterintuitive ways in my life to dismiss it out of hand. She made the claim under penalty of perjury so if it isn’t true the only person who should be nervous about it being investigated is her.

Would you also agree that women have been known to exaggerate or make things up or lie? That some have done so for fun and profit? Or political expediency? That some are used as pawns in the ugly game of politics of personal destruction? I don't know what Christine Ford believes or doesn't believe re what happened to her, but I think that going back to high school to accuse a person who has led an honorable, useful, and beneficial life for 36 years is going pretty darn low. I believe an honorable person would not do that. And since there has been absolutely nothing whatsoever to suggest otherwise, I have to believe she is being used by the Democrats, however much it damages or hurts her in the process, for no other reason than to hurt President Trump via his Supreme Court nominee.

 

[lurchadams]

Nah. That's from First Contact.

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Man I don't remember much about that one. Not one of my favs.

 

[TurtleDude]

I take every claim of sexual assault seriously so that would include this one. Glad to hear the FBI will check into it as well as the others. In my opinion her claim raises a lot more questions than some of the others but that doesn't make it untrue and it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Also there is absolutely no relevance to her having a restraining order taken out by a boyfriend. Just because a woman makes questionable decisions in life doesn't mean that she wasn't assaulted. It is ignorant to try to discredit a claim of a sexual crime because a woman hasn't lived a perfect life.

anyone who gives her often changing claims any degree of credibility is either so hateful of Kavanaugh that they have completely abdicated rational thinking or they are truly gullible

 

[Hawkeye10]

I say that those who know of sex crimes have a duty to report them in a timely matter, so that justice or the best approximation of justice that we can manage can be done. THose who refuse to do that can sit and spin so far as I am concerned, because they have betrayed the collective. When they use their allegations for the purposes of destroying people they dont like they earn my condemnation again.

 

[GreatNews2night]

Swetnick is not credible at all, and Avenatti is an opportunist. His adding her name to the mix just gave fuel to the people questioning the credibility of the other two, vastly more credible accusers.

Still, for me, I find myself today kind of changing my mind. I've posted multiple times defending Ford and Ramirez but now I don't know. If the FBI investigates properly (without too many constraints from the White House) and finds nothing, I'm willing to give Judge Kavanaugh the benefit of the doubt, and the standard of innocent until proven guilty. It doesn't necessarily mean that I think that Ford and Ramirez lied... but maybe they believe in what they said, but it didn't really happen like they recall. Memories of traumatic events that happened 35 years ago while the victims were in states of alcohol intoxication are a tricky thing. Maybe Ford was indeed sexually assaulted, but by someone who was not Kavanaugh. Maybe Ramirez was so intoxicated that she just can't know if her recollection is accurate.

I am concerned, regarding his partisan speech that this was the doing of the Clintons (and also his willingness to lie to the Senate Judiciary Committee under oath, like when he said his drinking was legal, while Maryland had already increased the drinking age to 21 when he was a high school senior). It's unbecoming of a SCOTUS justice, quite appalling, and introduces doubts regarding his ability to be impartial in cases brought to him. But I'll say that if the FBI finds nothing, I'm willing to acknowledge that the Dems have not proven their point that for reasons related to these accusations, he is unfit for the SCOTUS.

I'd say rabid partisans are unfit... but I understand that elections have consequences, and Trump has the right to nominate someone who isn't impartial. I think Trump has nominated Kavanaugh precisely because the good judge *is* partial. But he's the duly elected POTUS; if he wants a biased guy there who will do his bidding, it's his right to nominate, and if the Dems are in the minority, they can't really block it. I just wish the Republican senators had applied the same reasoning to the Garland nomination.

There was a time in America when a POTUS nominated a judge for the SCOTUS, and the Senate just focused on whether or not the person was qualified (as opposed to focusing on the person's ideology). If the qualifications were good, then the judge would be confirmed by a large bi-partisan majority, recognizing the right of the president to nominate someone he wanted, as long as the person held the necessary qualifications.

Unfortunately, that time of compromise, respect, and bi-partisanship is long gone, and it's the nation that is paying and will pay the price for this sad state of affairs.

 

[Kreton]

anyone who gives her often changing claims any degree of credibility is either so hateful of Kavanaugh that they have completely abdicated rational thinking or they are truly gullible

If you held Kavanaugh to the same standard you could say the same about him. He has lied under oath to the senate at least 3 times. You can argue the lies were not important but they were lies. And if unimportant why lie?

 

[TurtleDude]

If you held Kavanaugh to the same standard you could say the same about him. He has lied under oath to the senate at least 3 times. You can argue the lies were not important but they were lies. And if unimportant why lie?

yeah we keep hearing that from people like you

 

[Kreton]

yeah we keep hearing that from people like you

Is what I am saying false?

Yes or no question here.

Has Kavanaugh lied while under oath to the US Senate?

 

[Big Ed]

How do you know he was falsely accused.Were you there?

From the reports, seems like no one was there.

 

[TurtleDude]

Is what I am saying false?

Yes or no question here.

Has Kavanaugh lied while under oath to the US Senate?

not that I am aware of.

 

[Phys251]

Wow. You really, desperately, do not want to answer the question of whether or not you are reassessing your brelief in this woman.

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Cut the feigned outrage, okay? You don't want to believe any of Kavanaugh's accusers, yet you want me to believe you, as if you were actually the expert in the room. As if you actually knew more about their stories than they do. So I'm just holding you to the standard that you chose to set, at least until it dawns on you how flawed your standard is.

 

[TurtleDude]

Cut the feigned outrage, okay? You don't want to believe any of Kavanaugh's accusers, yet you want me to believe you, as if you were actually the expert in the room. As if you actually knew more about their stories than they do. So I'm just holding you to the standard that you chose to set, at least until it dawns on you how flawed your standard is.

you have answered that you believe Swetnick is credible. that's hilarious.