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Who do you think would be best for 2008?

Who would you support in 2008?

  • John McCain(AZ-R)

    Votes: 7 25.0%
  • Barbra Boxer(CA-D)

    Votes: 3 10.7%
  • other Dem

    Votes: 7 25.0%
  • other Rep

    Votes: 11 39.3%

  • Total voters
    28
H

HegemonLocke

John McCain
Barbra Boxer
John Edwards
Hillary Clinton
Whestly Clark

anybody have thoughts on my preliminary list? As a unfaithful/unaffiliated political party voter I'm having a tough time coming up with real GOP possibilities who I would actually vote for but I think McCain is the front runner in my head. But I think the Dems on my list are pretty good too but I fear that Hillary would face too much opposition in the Congress and Edwards would be meak, timide and unexperinced. I think anyone saying Obama should relaize the "kennedy" effect shouldn't be relied on for an election as important as a this one. Lets face is Kerry, no one really wanted in '04 he was just the most powerful/recognizable/"legitimate" Dem out there. The Dems could use some powerful party figures and I think that Barbra Boxer is one an excellent example of one. Whestly Clark - to the best of my knowledge hasn't ever been elected to anything - but is that always a bad thing?

Ok I;ve thrown enough thought out there. I strongly support all Dem's to look into Barba Boxer - her record(esp. Iraq she voted NO to give the power to the president to go to war) and the Rep's to look at John McCain as a hope for strong, honorable, powerful leader with integrity to lead them to recovery from the neo-con take over.
 

ShamMol

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However much I like Boxer (I was on her campaign volunteer staff) and respect her for her steadfast devotion to the principles of liberalism, I would not support her for President. She is far too liberal to effectively garner the support of that coveted 10% independents who don't make their minds up until the end. She can have all the diagrams and charts she wants, but she cannot be elected President.

My pick for the Democrats is a sleeper candidate, one basically nobody considers (kinda like Kerry was). Gov. Warner of Virginia-he is smart, he handles himself well in debate, he is a Democrat in a red state, he has popular support, and he did work on taxes which is a big no in Virginia. He was able to do many things in the Democratic platform, yet still be able to garner such high support from Republicans in his state. He has that...moral thing that the Democrats have been looking for and he is very connected to his faith. I think he has the most potential to be a President. But in the end, he is only as strong as his campaign.

When it comes to campaigning, the two breakout Democrats to consider are Sens. Biden and Clinton. They know how to get the money, having done it for years for themselves or their husband. While I hate to say it, the most realistic candidate for the Dems is...Hillary. There really is nobody else that the public knows save for Dean or Obama. Obama is too much of a political virgin and Dean would get skewered. However, another name to consider is John Edwards, who I actually just had lunch with and am currently using what was his campaign headquaters for California as a workspace (the lawfirm I am working at hosted his campaign and I am in that room...wow). I think that he will make a strong showing for himself, and get a decent second in the primaries, enabling him to get his second nomination for being vice president.

Long analysis...and we will see if anyof it is correct.
 

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John McCain would be a good choice and so would Joe Lieberman (whose absent from your list) Also don't count out Richardson yet, he might be interested in running.

Personally, If McCain and Lieberman left their party's and started a party called the "Moderates" I would probably jump on board.
 

ShamMol

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Gov. Richardson doesn't have the political capital to run. He is viewed as weak by many of the top Democrats in the nation.

The problem with the idea of the moderate party is that both of the existing parties are trying to define themselves as the same thing. The American Public would see more of the same rhetoric, even if this rhetoric was backed up by action. I don't see such a party starting unless they have a young charasmatic guy with them...and there really aren't any because they have been snatched up by the two parties and have been semi-indoctinated...Obama to a lesser extent...

I personally respect McCain, if only for his ability to think for himself but still remain loyal to the party. That is what I think is necessary in a politician. That is also why I like Boxer, though instead of going to the center, she goes to the left on issues when her party goes to the center. It is this ability to think for oneself that is so sorely lacking in American government.
 

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ShamMol said:
Gov. Richardson doesn't have the political capital to run. He is viewed as weak by many of the top Democrats in the nation.
I am not a lib or a democrat, but I bet Richardson will come out of the woodwork. His biggest issue is that New Mexico didn't go blue last election. He has a clean Washington record and will use his Korean ambassador experience to show that they are a bigger threat than they actually are and we are doing nothing about them.

I would not doubt if it came down to a Richardson v Cornyn (Texas Senator) run.
 

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Senator George Allen R-Va
Former governor...
Son of former Redskins coach...
Born in Ca, raised in Va. He's usually held stedfast to true conservative principles, and has headed post 9-11 committees on terrorist threats. He's really a force to be reckoned with come election time. My support for him wavered when he brought an apology resolution for lynching legislation delay to the senate floor... but overall I think he's a real conservative, while still being "moderate" enough to pull the undecided vote.


*Side note: it'd be totally cool to have a completely Virginia based election between Warner and Allen.
 

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vauge said:
I am not a lib or a democrat, but I bet Richardson will come out of the woodwork. His biggest issue is that New Mexico didn't go blue last election. He has a clean Washington record and will use his Korean ambassador experience to show that they are a bigger threat than they actually are and we are doing nothing about them.

I would not doubt if it came down to a Richardson v Cornyn (Texas Senator) run.
That is why he doesn't have much support within the higher echolon (sp?) of the Democratic Party. It will look very weak especially in the face of the fact that Richardson have wavered on a few, what they consider to be key issues.

I say that there are really four actually viable candidates for the Democrats that are just liberal enough to appease the base, but moderate enough to draw in voters. They are John Edwards (plus he is a lawyer and the lawyers love him), Hillary Clinton, Gov. Warner, and Sen. Biden.
Stherngntlmn said:
Senator George Allen R-Va
Former governor...
Son of former Redskins coach...
Born in Ca, raised in Va. He's usually held stedfast to true conservative principles, and has headed post 9-11 committees on terrorist threats. He's really a force to be reckoned with come election time. My support for him wavered when he brought an apology resolution for lynching legislation delay to the senate floor... but overall I think he's a real conservative, while still being "moderate" enough to pull the undecided vote.


*Side note: it'd be totally cool to have a completely Virginia based election between Warner and Allen.
Allen is a nice guy who I would probably go drinking with, but I don't believe he would make a good candidate. I know his campaigning skills have been questioned and that lynching legislation will be a huge mark against him, especially with the minority population of the United Sates. I think one of the problems is that he comes off as too conservative, at least your first impression of him. With George Bush, you go the impression that he could be moderate on some things, but you don't get the same feeling with Allen.

On a side note, I think it would show that the country is in trouble if both the cadidates are from the same state, much less the same area. Too much importance on one thing can be bad.
 

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hey, if allen got elected... that'd be 2 presidents in a row who wore cowboy boots... what are the odds of that?
 

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ShamMol said:
My pick for the Democrats is a sleeper candidate, one basically nobody considers (kinda like Kerry was). Gov. Warner of Virginia-he is smart, he handles himself well in debate, he is a Democrat in a red state, he has popular support, and he did work on taxes which is a big no in Virginia. He was able to do many things in the Democratic platform, yet still be able to garner such high support from Republicans in his state. He has that...moral thing that the Democrats have been looking for and he is very connected to his faith. I think he has the most potential to be a President. But in the end, he is only as strong as his campaign.
btw... some more background.

He had support in his work with the taxes because of the nature of the situation. In Va, it's the law that the state has to have a balanced budget. We were showing signs of a deficit after a hurricane swepot through and damaged a lot. Just about everyone supported the tax hike in order to increase the state income and balance the annual budget. Warner lost a lot of his puplarity when he refused to repeal the tax hike after we ended up with a balanced budget without even adding in the new taxes. He decided that higher taxes were better regardless of whether or not the budget was in need of the income.
 

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SixStringHero said:
John McCain would be a good choice and so would Joe Lieberman (whose absent from your list) Also don't count out Richardson yet, he might be interested in running.

Personally, If McCain and Lieberman left their party's and started a party called the "Moderates" I would probably jump on board.
I know a bunch of people who would do the same, including myself. McCain would be the best option if we are going to try to reunite our extremely divided nation.
 

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rudy0908 said:
I know a bunch of people who would do the same, including myself. McCain would be the best option if we are going to try to reunite our extremely divided nation.
Not to mention that he's fiscally responsible too. It'd be rather foolish if he wanted to run and he was blocked again by the party.
 

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shuamort said:
Not to mention that he's fiscally responsible too. It'd be rather foolish if he wanted to run and he was blocked again by the party.

Plus he's served in the military and is generally a moderate. Does anyone know why he lost to Bush in '00?
 

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rudy0908 said:
Plus he's served in the military and is generally a moderate. Does anyone know why he lost to Bush in '00?
He lost the primaries in South Carolina for two reasons. Another vietnam vet started attacking McCain's war history and then a rumor campaing presumably started by GOP that told voters that McCain had an illegitimate black child. (The McCains adopted their daughter from Bangladesh.)
 

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Here's a bit more about the dirty campaigning that was going on:

Finally, there's the granddaddy of them all: Bush's gutter job on Sen. John McCain in the South Carolina primary of 2000. Bush lost to McCain in New Hampshire and wasn't going to allow it to happen again. So the Bush team resorted to what are called "push polls." They're designed to plant seeds of doubt about candidates. In South Carolina, callers asked those they were polling questions like: Would you be more or less likely to vote for McCain if you knew he'd fathered a black child out of wedlock? Some had him fathering the child with a prostitute. Others inquired whether voters knew that McCain's wife was a drug addict. And did they know he had abandoned his crippled first wife? It was nasty, nasty stuff, and it caused McCain to lose his composure in public, which didn't help his cause at all.

McCain's wife indeed became addicted to painkillers at one time, in much the same way that radio mouth Rush Limbaugh did. Moreover, McCain and his wife had adopted a little girl from an orphanage in Bangladesh, so the "black child" story seemed confirmed to some.
More
As for the Waterloo of South Carolina, most of the facts are well-known, and among this group of Republicans, what happened has taken on the air of an unsolved crime, a cold case, with Karl Rove being the prime suspect. Bush loyalists, maybe working for the campaign, maybe just representing its interests, claimed in parking-lot handouts and telephone "push polls" and whisper campaigns that McCain’s wife, Cindy, was a drug addict, that McCain might be mentally unstable from his captivity in Vietnam, and that the senator had fathered a black child with a prostitute. Callers push-polled members of a South Carolina right-to-life organization and other groups, asking if the black baby might influence their vote. Now here’s the twist, the part that drives McCain admirers insane to this very day: That last rumor took seed because the McCains had done an especially admirable thing. Years back they’d adopted a baby from a Mother Teresa orphanage in Bangladesh. Bridget, now eleven years old, waved along with the rest of the McCain brood from stages across the state, a dark-skinned child inadvertently providing a photo op for slander. The attacks were of a level and vitriol that even McCain, who was regularly beaten in captivity, could not ignore. He began to answer the slights, strayed off message about how he would lead the nation if he got the chance, and lost the war for South Carolina. Bush emerged from the showdown upright and victorious . . . and onward he marched.
 

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Yeah, it is horrible what was done to him, most of which was rumored to be started by Rove in attempt to defeat the only threat to the campaign.
 

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McCain lost because he has trouble deciding on an ideology.. unlike the democrats.. most republicans get aggitated at moderates because of their seemingly indecisiveness...
 

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^No. That is what is said now. Then it was more of a character (ridiculous I know) issue for the voters in South Carolina. That was the issue, not the issue of his record or his stances. He had a black illegitimate child, oh my!
 

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Stherngntlmn said:
McCain lost because he has trouble deciding on an ideology.. unlike the democrats.. most republicans get aggitated at moderates because of their seemingly indecisiveness...
What issues do you believe McCain was indecisive on? From what I've seen, he seems to toe the old party line, fiscal responsibility, sane defense, against abortion, amd pro-small government.
 

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HegemonLocke said:
John McCain
Barbra Boxer
John Edwards
Hillary Clinton
Whestly Clark

anybody have thoughts on my preliminary list? As a unfaithful/unaffiliated political party voter I'm having a tough time coming up with real GOP possibilities who I would actually vote for but I think McCain is the front runner in my head. But I think the Dems on my list are pretty good too but I fear that Hillary would face too much opposition in the Congress and Edwards would be meak, timide and unexperinced. I think anyone saying Obama should relaize the "kennedy" effect shouldn't be relied on for an election as important as a this one. Lets face is Kerry, no one really wanted in '04 he was just the most powerful/recognizable/"legitimate" Dem out there. The Dems could use some powerful party figures and I think that Barbra Boxer is one an excellent example of one. Whestly Clark - to the best of my knowledge hasn't ever been elected to anything - but is that always a bad thing?

Ok I;ve thrown enough thought out there. I strongly support all Dem's to look into Barba Boxer - her record(esp. Iraq she voted NO to give the power to the president to go to war) and the Rep's to look at John McCain as a hope for strong, honorable, powerful leader with integrity to lead them to recovery from the neo-con take over.
Welcome to Debate Politics.

I like McCain. One of the many reasons I don't think much of Bush and Co. is the slimy stuff they did to him in 2000. The SC "push poll" was about as unethical as you can get. Whenever I hear someone exclaim they like Bush for his morals or integrity I basically can't stop laughing.
 

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shuamort said:
What issues do you believe McCain was indecisive on? From what I've seen, he seems to toe the old party line, fiscal responsibility, sane defense, against abortion, amd pro-small government.
He's co-sponsored gun control bills with lieberman, wavered on several aspects of abortion several times, voted against tax cuts, advocates federalizing healthcare, voted in favor of affirmative action, voted to divert millions in defense spending to federal education. All of this... before 2001.. not even counting his odd flip-flops in the 2004 election.


I'm not trying to say that McCain is a liberal... but he's definately had trouble with consistancy in any view of conservative ideology.
 

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Stherngntlmn said:
He's co-sponsored gun control bills with lieberman, wavered on several aspects of abortion several times, voted against tax cuts, advocates federalizing healthcare, voted in favor of affirmative action, voted to divert millions in defense spending to federal education. All of this... before 2001.. not even counting his odd flip-flops in the 2004 election.


I'm not trying to say that McCain is a liberal... but he's definately had trouble with consistancy in any view of conservative ideology.
He isn't a strict conservative and anyone who follows politics knows that. He is a moderate conservative. Basically, he can think for himself and not follow strict idealogy.

He is a politician people can respect, unlike political idealouges like Lott and witch woman (dem head in house).
 

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Out of curiousity, I looked into your claims. He does seem to waiver on some things (as politicians do). See below:

Source

Stherngntlmn said:
He's co-sponsored gun control bills with lieberman,.
Ban cheap guns; require safety locks; for gun show checks. (Aug 1999)
Supports ban on certain assault weapons. (Aug 1999)
Voted against Brady Bill & assault weapon ban. (Aug 1999)
Guns are a problem, but so are violent web sites & videos. (Aug 1999)
Punish criminals who abuse 2nd Amendment rights. (May 1999)
Youth Violence Prevention Act restricts guns for kids. (May 1999)
Repeal existing gun restrictions; penalize criminal use. (Jul 1998)
Voted YES on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence. (Mar 2004)
Voted NO on background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
Voted YES on more penalties for gun & drug violations. (May 1999)
Voted YES on loosening license & background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
Voted YES on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks. (Jul 1998)



Stherngntlmn said:
wavered on several aspects of abortion several times,
Prosecute abortion doctors, not women who get them. (Jan 2000)
“Family Conference” if daughter wanted an abortion. (Jan 2000)
Abortion OK if raped; and no testing for rape. (Jan 2000)
Supports fetal tissue research; against over-intensity. (Jan 2000)
Overturn Roe v. Wade, but keep incest & rape exceptions. (Jan 2000)
Support adoption & foster care; work together on abortion. (Oct 1999)
Wants Roe vs. Wade made irrelevant, but would not repeal it. (Aug 1999)
Opposes partial-birth abortions & public financing. (Aug 1999)
Nominate justices based on experience, and values. (Jun 1999)
Restrict abortions; no partial-birth; no public funding. (Jul 1998)
Voted YES on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime. (Mar 2004)
Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions except for maternal life. (Mar 2003)
Voted YES on maintaining ban on Military Base Abortions. (Jun 2000)
Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions. (Oct 1999)
Voted YES on disallowing overseas military abortions. (May 1999)
Rated 0% by NARAL, indicating a pro-life voting record. (Dec 2003)
Expand embryonic stem cell research. (Jun 2004)

Stherngntlmn said:
voted against tax cuts,
Use veto power to reduce government spending. (Jan 2000)
Distribute surplus: 23% tax cuts; 62% Social Security. (Jan 2000)
$9B of pork in current budget bills; cut subsidies. (Oct 1999)
For Balanced Budget Amend., & off-budget Social Security. (Jul 1999)
List of budgetary spending priorities. (Jul 1998)
Supports Balanced Budget Amendment. (Jul 1998)
Apply surplus to Social Security, Medicare, tax cuts & debt. (Jul 1998)
Voted NO on prioritizing national debt reduction below tax cuts. (Apr 2000)
Voted YES on 1998 GOP budget. (May 1997)
Voted YES on Balanced-budget constitutional amendment. (Mar 1997)
Maintain & enforce existing spending caps in the future. (Sep 1998)

Stherngntlmn said:
advocates federalizing healthcare,
Higher taxes on cigarettes. (Jan 2000)
Matching funds for seniors citizens’ prescription drugs. (Dec 1999)
Expand health insurance to 11 million uninsured children. (Dec 1999)
Keep health care promises to aging veterans. (Nov 1999)
Address powerlessness when faced with health care crises. (Jul 1999)
“Patient rights” means value human life over dollars. (Jul 1999)
Expand medical savings; community health; & tax deductions. (Jul 1999)
Patient Rights: access; MDs over HMOs; grievance process. (Jul 1999)
Allow paying extra for choice of doctors & care. (Jul 1999)
Full doctor-patient discussion even when it costs HMO. (Jul 1999)
Allow appealing HMO decisions externally & in court. (Jul 1999)
Supports patient rights; regulate nicotine as a drug. (Jul 1998)
More tax-deductible health costs; limits on malpractice. (Jul 1998)
Voted NO on $40 billion per year for limited Medicare prescription drug benefit. (Jun 2003)
Voted YES on allowing importation of Rx drugs from Canada. (Jul 2002)
Voted YES on allowing patients to sue HMOs & collect punitive damages. (Jun 2001)
Voted YES on funding GOP version of Medicare prescription drug benefit. (Apr 2001)
Voted NO on including prescription drugs under Medicare. (Jun 2000)
Voted YES on limiting self-employment health deduction. (Jul 1999)
Voted YES on increasing tobacco restrictions. (Jun 1998)
Voted YES on banning human cloning. (Feb 1998)
Voted NO on Medicare means-testing. (Jun 1997)
Voted NO on medical savings acounts. (Apr 1996)
Tax credits for those without employee health insurance. (May 2002)
Tax deduction for long-term care insurance. (May 2002)
Support telemedicine for underserved areas. (May 2002)
$350 billion for prescriptions for poor seniors. (May 2002)
Rated 25% by APHA, indicating a anti-public health voting record. (Dec 2003)


Stherngntlmn said:
voted in favor of affirmative action,
Affirmative action OK for specific programs, but no quotas. (Jul 1998)

Stherngntlmn said:
voted to divert millions in defense spending to federal education.
We must provide our children a strong, better country. (Aug 2004)
A lack of complacency shouldn't provoke a lack of confidence. (Aug 2004)
We don't have as much to fear as we had in the past. (Apr 2004)
Those who gave their lives deserve to be remembered. (Apr 2004)
“Rogue state rollback” avoids use of US troops. (Mar 2000)
Disagrees with Perot: No more POWs in Vietnam. (Feb 2000)
Accepts gays in military under current policy. (Jan 2000)
Military’s political leaders need military backgrounds. (Jan 2000)
Keep “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy - it works. (Jan 2000)
Women have proven themselves in combat-no restrictions. (Dec 1999)
Terminate C-130, B-2, and Seawolf; use funds to modernize. (Dec 1999)
Politicians keep unneeded bases open for political purposes. (Dec 1999)
Keep health care promises to aging veterans. (Nov 1999)
Bombing useless targets in Vietnam destroyed US morale. (Nov 1999)
Vietnam was a worthy cause despite losing. (Nov 1999)
$6.4B of military spending waste is a disgrace. (Oct 1999)
Pres. needs experience more than briefing books. (Sep 1999)
Raise military pay to avoid military draft. (Aug 1999)
Military personnel on food stamps is a national disgrace. (Aug 1999)
Discard ABM Treaty and develop a missile defense. (Apr 1999)
Use force, with US control, only for vital interests. (Apr 1999)
Europeans should spend more on defense, within NATO. (Apr 1999)
Voted NO on adopting the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. (Oct 1999)
Voted YES on allowing another round of military base closures. (May 1999)
Voted YES on cutting nuclear weapons below START levels. (May 1999)
Voted YES on deploying National Missile Defense ASAP. (Mar 1999)
Voted YES on military pay raise of 4.8%. (Feb 1999)
Voted YES on deploying missile defense as soon as possible. (Sep 1998)
Voted NO on prohibiting same-sex basic training. (Jun 1998)
Voted NO on favoring 36 vetoed military projects. (Oct 1997)
Voted YES on banning chemical weapons. (Apr 1997)
Voted YES on considering deploying NMD, and amending ABM Treaty. (Jun 1996)
Voted NO on 1996 Defense Appropriations. (Sep 1995)
Federalize aviation security. (Nov 2001)
Rated 0% by SANE, indicating a pro-military voting record. (Dec 2003)
Innovate intelligence-gathering for future hard targets. (Mar 2005)
Assessments of al Qaida in Afghanistan in 2001 were accurate. (Mar 2005)
CIA needs more focus on counterterrorism. (Mar 2005)
So-called Legal Issues are myths; not real CIA hindrances. (Mar 2005)
Intelligence community shares information poorly. (Mar 2005)
CIA should work more with scientists to understand WMDs. (Mar 2005)
 

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You have to remember that in the mid-90s, everyone, including Di*k Cheney was voting against appropriations bills. This was the thing to do now that the cold war was over.

I found it hilarious that Kerry was attacked for it when Cheney had done the exact same thing and was on the ticket as well. Both, however at the time of the election, were steadily pro-war/munitions.
 

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I voted for who I thought was gonna win and that is hialry clinton. There is no doubt in my mind she will be the Democrates leader and probably will win the election
 

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CanadianGuy said:
I voted for who I thought was gonna win and that is hialry clinton. There is no doubt in my mind she will be the Democrates leader and probably will win the election
nope too many democrats disdain her very existance and she has absolutely 0 possibility of carrying any state in the south
 
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