Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native Americans"

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native Americans"

BTW the star was the guy on the mono wheel board.

 

[Doug1943]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native Americans"

I think this discussion is the closest to a balanced judgement we're going to get.

I would add this: I don't like calling teenagers "kids". They're halfway to being adults, and as far as being able to dish out violence, they're already there. It's typical of Radical Leftists to call teenage muggers 'youth' or even 'children' ... they do it to obscure the reality. We should not do the same. I know "kids" is sort of ambiguous, but I think we should be rigorous here.

So ... who "did wrong". Again "doing wrong" is a bit vague, although not a bad phrase in this situation, since no real crimes were committed. If these young men had shouted "Go back to Africa" or "They should have finished the job at Wounded Knee!", that would have been real "wrong".

But at worst, they didn't behave quite as responsible adults should behave ... only as I would expect teenage boys in the USA today to behave.

A responsible adult -- you and me -- would have just smiled pityingly at the "Black Hebrews" and the professional Indian .... knowing that these men are personal failures in their own lives and in their own eyes , and are not proud of their own 'tribes'.

Hopefully, their teachers would have explained to them, via lessons in history and politics, why these men are in the position they are in: yes, bad personal choices in their lives, no doubt ... the professional Indian has shown that, by his dismal service record -- but at least he tried, as a young man, to get onto a good career path -- and no doubt similar stories could be told about the "Black Hebrews".

But personal choices take place in a context -- and every white person should know the historical context in which non-whites in the US find themselves.

This does NOT mean going along with the Radical Left's "white privilege" bs, or glamorizing primitive peoples or backwardness. But it does mean acknowledging reality.

The real story here is not the sad craziness of the professional Indian or the "Black Hebrews", or the possible slight rudeness of these young men, but of the Radical Left's burning desire to whip up an internet lynch mob -- and, if possible, a real one -- against decent people.

 

[Nap]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native Americans"

Kids can hardly be expected to act like adults. Adults, on the other hand, have no excuse for acting childishly or childishly excusing the childish behavior of the offending adults.

I don't disagree which is why I was particularly troubled with the actions of both Mr. Phillips and that of the media. I was merely pointing out that the kids did not behave perfectly or completely innocent in this altercation as some have been saying. There is fault to be had among all parties, the degree of which is debatable and like you I find the actions of the children to be the least egregious because they were kids in an incredibly awkward situation of adults deliberately trying to provoke them. I view the actions of Sandmann (the child slandered by the MSM) rather commendable given the circumstances, you could argue there are better ways he could have handled it but to remain calm and simply stand there smiling while someone is beating a drum literally inches from your face is possibly the second best option to simply walking away. Someone less in control of their emotions in that situation likely would have done something to escalate the situation even further.

 

[Nap]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native American"

I voted for all. I note the degree of guilt varied.


The "black israelites" are ****s. The proper reaction is walking away from them/ignoring them. They were probably the worst of the bunch.

The natives were unwise to walk up to, then back and forth in front of, the kids.

The kids were wrong for open mockery replete with racist tomahawk chops. Pointing, laughing, mocking, surrounding.

The chaperones were insane for telling the kids to do the school "fight" song, which apparently contains a similar motion (not that that excuses a bunch of white kids doing it at a native, regardless of whatever the school song says to do....seriously....you cannot argue that tomahawk chops at natives while mocking their chant, etc., has no racial intent....not honestly).

The media was wrong to jump the gun with just the first video, thereby only attacking the kids, who were in fact in the wrong but not the only ones.

We were wrong, because we demand the kind of 24/7 coverage that leads to the media jumping the gun (or snap). They wouldn't be falling over ourselves to get the first report out if it did not mean dollars. It only means dollars because WE traffic to the site that reports first, and then some of "WE" are dumb enough to click on ads that appear, then buy products because we're so easily distracted that a little ad about deoderant can distract us from an article we decided to read. And, commenting after the first video. (I don't remember what I said, but I think it was pretty tame...something about "the kid" having a punchable face. What? He does, even if people shouldn't be punched for having faces.)

DP conservatives are largely in the wrong, too, for yet again making this into a good v. evil narrative where all the good guys are on the right, and all the bad guys on the left. Any DP liberal who failed to note others were in the wrong after the other videos surfaced, they too are in the wrong.

I'm sure I forgot some group or other.






/rant on

The last thing is the worst about this: the need to make everything into a good v. evil narrative. This isn't ****king Tolkien or Star Wars. It's reality. We do have the misfortune of regularly seeing things that are unquestionably evil, but that doesn't justify in any way boiling everything else down to it.

Neither does the fact that in the twitter age, most people have the attention span of a severely concussed goldfish: if you don't have the attention span or time to educate yourself, sit the **** down and shut the **** up while other people who did bother are talking.

/rant off

Pretty much agree with everything you said. However there is one small correction. I don't believe the chaperones told them to do the chant, the kids asked them if it was ok in order to do it to drown out the obscenities be shouted at them. Not saying that makes it any better, only that the wording in your post makes it seem like it was the chaperones idea.

 

[Nap]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native American"

There's a critical option missing on the poll: The boys' chaperones. Had they done their jobs and kept the boys away from the BHI protesters, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

We shouldn't be having this conversation to begin with. I don't see how this was newsworthy much less national headlines. The media jumped on the fact that it was Trump supporting kids and wanted to paint them in the worst light possible. Had journalists actually done their jobs they would have realized this was much ado about nothing.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native American"

WOW......WOW...... get some professional help, Lefty. definitely looking Lefty, all hysterical and emotional and everything. Yeah, I think we're at the level of far left now. Maybe we're into SJW territory....... here's your safety pin....

LOL personal attacks and more lies wont support your claims. They just further exposes your failed posts. Please support your false claims in post 39 or simply post with honesty and integrity and admit your mistake thanks

 

[marke]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native American"

Their behavior was not good. They were mocking native Americans, that is ****ing wrong.

Those stinking kids with MAGA hats, right?

 

[Phys251]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native American"

We shouldn't be having this conversation to begin with. I don't see how this was newsworthy much less national headlines. The media jumped on the fact that it was Trump supporting kids and wanted to paint them in the worst light possible. Had journalists actually done their jobs they would have realized this was much ado about nothing.

That doesn't matter. The MSM's initial failure to include the lead-up to the boys' frenzied state does not justify their chaperones' letting go that far.

 

[Phys251]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native American"

Those stinking kids with MAGA hats, right?

Interesting. The alt-right piled onto the MSM's initial reporting of the Covington Catholic boys (one of the rare times that their complaints have actually had any sort of validity), and then you use a political cartoon from those initial images to try to justify the boys and their chaperones' behavior.

And holy ****, the neutral faces on the two boys behind Sandmann are absolutely not what any video version shows. More like LARP'ing Lord of the Flies.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native American"

Those stinking kids with MAGA hats, right?

View attachment 67249139

I already established like everyone else that the media and much of the left jumped the gun.

But, still the kids behavior was not anything to be proud of. Not saying that I am surprised by their behavior though, given that it is a Catholic school. Whoever was in charge of those kids probably still do not even recognize that the kids were behaving badly. Yes they were trolled, but that still is no excuse for them to mock a native Americans.

All in all it was a bad situation that the people in charge of those kids could have easily defused by moving their kids away from verbally abusive assholes. Instead like idiots they stayed there most likely because of the verbally abusive assholes, because they themselves were triggered by trolls.

 

[celticwar17]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native American"

What the Indian guy did wrong was lie and by trying to intentionally instigate the media to inflict bad publicity on the children.

I don't care about him walking up to the group with the drum... that's fine, it's whatever.

The black Israelite's were wrong and out of line, yelling racist chants and obscenities to children.

If they just did a peaceful protest, cheering whatever policy they desire.... that's 100% okay.... even if they were near the kids.



The kids did not shout this, that's fake news, but in the hypothetical case they did.... "Build a Wall" is not a racist chant.... who cares if a protesting group shouts that? If that's the government policy they are passionate about.... that's fine...
Now if they start shouting racial slurs and phrases, that's not okay.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native American"

I don't know. I've only seen one video and in it, I can't see anything wrong, just the teen smirking at the man playing the drum. I've heard there are more videos out there, but I can't make a judgement either way without seeing more.

 

[Virgil Jones]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native American"

I don't think the Native American guy did anything wrong. I'm sure the Black Israelites were being massive jerks, and there are plenty of videos where the MAGA kids do crappy things.

Surely you know better by now. I haven't read the entire thread yet, perhaps you apologized later in the thread.

 

[Virgil Jones]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native Americans"

There is video of the children mocking the Native Americans, to say they did nothing wrong is a little biased.

They kind of mocked an American Indian who accosted them. Said American Indian is a liar who says he served in Vietnam. He also falsely claimed that the kids chanted "build the wall". As for the term "Native Americans", I should be offended that I was born here and fit the definition, yet I am excluded because of my race.

 

[Virgil Jones]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native Americans"

I don't know why you called the kids "Maga hat Catholic school teens." for from my POV, the damn hat has and had neither more nor less to do with anything than did the "Man in the Moon."

Now that Hat Crimes are conflated with Hate Crimes, the socialists have cemented their ability to defame people, even kids, for no reason at all. It smacks of racism.

 

[Virgil Jones]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native American"

Mueller will get to the bottom of this.Somebody will be indicted.

Smirking might be the most serious crime Mueller has uncovered to date.

 

[Waddy]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native American"

This poll sucks.

 

[mrdeltoid]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native American"

I don't think the Native American guy did anything wrong. I'm sure the Black Israelites were being massive jerks, and there are plenty of videos where the MAGA kids do crappy things.

Do you really believe that? Are you saying that there's nothing wrong with walking up to somebody and start banging a drum loudly an inch from their face?

 

[MrPeanut]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native American"

Do you really believe that? Are you saying that there's nothing wrong with walking up to somebody and start banging a drum loudly an inch from their face?

Phillips gave an account that I found to be the most believable. He said the Black Israelites were yelling a bunch of nasty things at the teens, the teens started to finally answer back, and Phillips went in between the groups to try to prevent the situation from escalating. He was probably hoping the kids would just walk off and nothing would happen, but he obviously misread them. If a Native American started drumming in my face the last thing I would think to do is the tomahawk chop or mockingly chant at him. The fact that the kid's PR firm came out with their version of what happened makes me trust the kid less to be honest.

 

[Taylor]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native American"

Phillips gave an account that I found to be the most believable. He said the Black Israelites were yelling a bunch of nasty things at the teens, the teens started to finally answer back, and Phillips went in between the groups to try to prevent the situation from escalating. He was probably hoping the kids would just walk off and nothing would happen, but he obviously misread them. If a Native American started drumming in my face the last thing I would think to do is the tomahawk chop or mockingly chant at him. The fact that the kid's PR firm came out with their version of what happened makes me trust the kid less to be honest.

That was the third different story he came up with, so no... not at all credible.

 

[MrPeanut]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native American"

That was the third different story he came up with, so no... not at all credible.

Can you beat the day after the incident? https://www.apnews.com/58d9e567819346d185893e200ef440ea

 

[Sampson Simpson]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native American"

Black Israelites, and the MAGA hate wearing racist douches.

I believe the native american started playing music to defuse the situation

And right wingers, stop acting like the kids did nothing wrong, they were wearing their racist MAGA ****, and whether you like it or not, wearing MAGA is sign you support the racist POS president. You want to be proud of it, deal with minorities and other people thinking you are an asshole for flaunting what has become a symbol for white supremecists.

 

[mrdeltoid]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native American"

Phillips gave an account that I found to be the most believable. He said the Black Israelites were yelling a bunch of nasty things at the teens, the teens started to finally answer back, and Phillips went in between the groups to try to prevent the situation from escalating. He was probably hoping the kids would just walk off and nothing would happen, but he obviously misread them. If a Native American started drumming in my face the last thing I would think to do is the tomahawk chop or mockingly chant at him. The fact that the kid's PR firm came out with their version of what happened makes me trust the kid less to be honest.

You sound like a pretty reasonable person, and you make a lot of sense. I guess everybody has differing perspective, when we look at the same video, we can draw a different inference depending on our background and beliefs. One of the hardest things to do, is to view an emotionally charged video without our natural biases coloring our opinion. I went from, "This spoiled brat needs that smirk knocked of his face"(when I saw CNN's first video and accompanying narrative) to "Holy crap was I bamboozled!" After I saw the whole video, I felt like I had been suckered. We can agree the Black Israelites were clearly in the wrong. Then it comes to the Sandmann kid and Phillips. I googled them both, to get a little background on past behavior.

On the kid there was nothing, except of course this incident. On Phillips there was a voluminous amount of criminal charges, lies about everything from his military service, to different accounts of this confrontation and other times he's incited crowds from college kids at a party, to this mob he took to a church and interrupted the church service. I don't find the boys family getting him a PR firm as a sign he's not being honest, considering the way CNN distorted the story, and all the death threats he is receiving. It's probably a smart move. Anyway, google Phillips' past and see if it doesn't change your opinion. And again, I'm not saying you're right or wrong, this is JMHO, and it's no more valid than yours. Full disclosure, I'm conservative with libertarian leanings. Thanks for the civil discussion.eace

 

[mrdeltoid]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native American"

Can you beat the day after the incident? https://www.apnews.com/58d9e567819346d185893e200ef440ea

This story was released before the other video footage had circulated. This is what happens when news outlets care more about being first than accurate.

This here is what it's REALLY about.:Haaland, who is also Catholic, told AP she was particularly saddened to see the boys mocking an elder, who is revered in Native American culture. She placed some of the blame on President Donald Trump, who has used Indian names like Pocahontas as an insult.
“It is sad that we have a president who uses Native American women’s names as racial slurs, and that’s an example that these kids are clearly following considering the fact that they had their ‘Make America Great Again’ hats on,” Haaland said. “He’s really brought out the worst in people.”

 

[MrPeanut]

Re: Who did wrong? "Maga hat Catholic school teens", "Black Israelites" and or Native American"

You sound like a pretty reasonable person, and you make a lot of sense. I guess everybody has differing perspective, when we look at the same video, we can draw a different inference depending on our background and beliefs. One of the hardest things to do, is to view an emotionally charged video without our natural biases coloring our opinion. I went from, "This spoiled brat needs that smirk knocked of his face"(when I saw CNN's first video and accompanying narrative) to "Holy crap was I bamboozled!" After I saw the whole video, I felt like I had been suckered. We can agree the Black Israelites were clearly in the wrong. Then it comes to the Sandmann kid and Phillips. I googled them both, to get a little background on past behavior.

On the kid there was nothing, except of course this incident. On Phillips there was a voluminous amount of criminal charges, lies about everything from his military service, to different accounts of this confrontation and other times he's incited crowds from college kids at a party, to this mob he took to a church and interrupted the church service. I don't find the boys family getting him a PR firm as a sign he's not being honest, considering the way CNN distorted the story, and all the death threats he is receiving. It's probably a smart move. Anyway, google Phillips' past and see if it doesn't change your opinion. And again, I'm not saying you're right or wrong, this is JMHO, and it's no more valid than yours. Full disclosure, I'm conservative with libertarian leanings. Thanks for the civil discussion.eace

I appreciate you replying like you did. I'm not sure why there are so many disagreements about this incident, but I'm starting to think people are defining "wrong" in different ways. In this situation I define wrong as racist behavior which is why I included the Black Israelites in the wrongdoing. I felt like the tomahawk chops and the mocking chants that the teens did crossed a line. I understand groups of teens can do stupid things, but racism is learned behavior. I guess we could have a discussion about Phillips moving towards them with a drum or the effect the Black Israelites might have had on the whole situation, but anger or excitement is no excuse for racism. If Phillips has a sketchy history that still doesn't justify the racism to me.