White nationalism

[Good4Nothin]

The word "nationalism" might be at the center of the current divisiveness, since it means very different things to different groups.

To most Trump supporters, it probably means the opposite of globalism. Caring about America and its interests first.

To most Democrats, it probably means something like fascism, or white supremacy. That's why they think of Trump as a fascist/Nazi.

But which is the real meaning of the word "nationalism?"

The "left" has been influenced by Marxism, and Marx thought nations (and religions) were the cause of wars and should be abolished. The idea is that the whole world should, and could, get along. So that could be one reason Democrats, who have been very influenced by the "left" recently, don't like nationalism.

Another reason Democrats (in general, today) don't like nationalism is, of course, that they don't like anything that Trump and his supporters like.

But another big reason is that nationalism does sometimes shade into white nationalism, and white supremacy. Which, of course, Democrats (and most rational Republicans) despise.

Breitbart, Steve Bannon, Stephen Miller -- they all are advocates for European/American culture. They believe it is a superior culture, because it has been the most advanced in terms of technology and wealth.

Most of the famous inventors and explorers of our culture have been Europeans or Americans (not as much currently, but going back a ways). And of course Europeans are called the "white" race, because they are lighter than most others.

So because of their love of Western culture, and their desire to defend it against attacks and political correctness, they can be accused of being racists.

It should be possible for someone to say the great modern achievements in science, technology, the arts, etc., have been thanks to Western culture without their being an actual racist. I mean, it is a fact so pretending it isn't true would not be possible.

But is it because the white race is somehow superior? In my opinion no, it is not superior. But some people might look at the differences in achievement between Western countries and for example African countries and say it proves racial superiority.

First of all, remember that Western culture is only superior in certain things, and is probably much worse than other cultures in some other things. Also, we are all the same species and scientists don't necessarily think there are racial divisions.

There is, however, epigenetics, which is not yet well understood. But we know that cultural traits can be inherited. So, for example, if a culture values literacy maybe reading and writing skills will be passed down, resulting in higher average IQ scores for that culture.

It is possible that some ethnic groups (sometimes called "races") have advantages in math and verbal skills. But even if that is true, it is not carved in DNA. Epigenetics can be changed by what you do in your life, and then passed down to your kids.

American blacks probably came from non-literate African cultures, and as slaves they were not taught to read and write. So they might have some epigenetic disadvantage in our culture where math and verbal skills are important.

Notice that blacks, in general, have no disadvantage in music or athletics.

Epigenetic limitations can be overcome by learning and practice. We should never give up on something we want to do because we don't have "natural talent" for it. Talent is acquired by individuals, as well as inherited. If you didn't inherit a certain talent you just have to work harder and longer at it.

This is just an attempt to make sense of some of the current confusion and rage.

 

[bongsaway]

When I think nationalists, I think of nazi germany, warmongering japan and fascist italy. There is nothing wrong for having pride in your nation, there is plenty wrong in thinking others don't fit into your vision of nationalism and only your view is the correct view.

 

[Whythink]

My problem with your thesis is much of the achievement was done while enslaving or discriminating other racial and ethnic groups.

You can't celebrate the achievement without acknowledging the sin.

I am not just talking about white v black. Think of Irish Catholics or Asians.

There wasn't a group, including their own women, that the "original" White Male European settlers didn't mistreat/murder in the name of American greatness and achievement.

I understand what you are saying but can't ignore the horrific reality of the culture of the achievement you talk about.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[Good4Nothin]

When I think nationalists, I think of nazi germany, warmongering japan and fascist italy. There is nothing wrong for having pride in your nation, there is plenty wrong in thinking others don't fit into your vision of nationalism and only your view is the correct view.

But we should just understand the word "nationalism" without thinking about Nazis and fascists. Every nation is and has always been nationalistic. Because plain old common sense says you have to put your own country first. Just like you take care of your own family before you take care of other families.

Trump ran on the idea of not hating this country, since liberals now days are on an America-bashing craze.

 

[Good4Nothin]

My problem with your thesis is much of the achievement was done while enslaving or discriminating other racial and ethnic groups.

You can't celebrate the achievement without acknowledging the sin.

I am not just talking about white v black. Think of Irish Catholics or Asians.

There wasn't a group, including their own women, that the "original" White Male European settlers didn't mistreat/murder in the name of American greatness and achievement.

I understand what you are saying but can't ignore the horrific reality of the culture of the achievement you talk about.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

I am not ignoring any of that. It just is not the point I am making. I SAID that Western culture is inferior in many ways.

Also, please remember that every single culture has mistreated its minority members, and most have been racist. Think about the caste system in India, for example, which is still very much alive today.

 

[bongsaway]

But we should just understand the word "nationalism" without thinking about Nazis and fascists. Every nation is and has always been nationalistic. Because plain old common sense says you have to put your own country first. Just like you take care of your own family before you take care of other families.

Trump ran on the idea of not hating this country, since liberals now days are on an America-bashing craze.

America is on an anti republican type of governing craze. We want to see america live up to her ideals, the right wants a police state.

 

[Good4Nothin]

America is on an anti republican type of governing craze. We want to see america live up to her ideals, the right wants a police state.

Lately I don't hear Democrats saying anything respectful about this country. They don't feel they can love a country that practiced slavery. Never mind that it's also the country that ended slavery, and gave rights to women. Never mind that slavery was everywhere, including white slavery.

The history books have been re-written to push the progressive narrative. Which hates Western culture. And that's why we got Trump.

 

[Good4Nothin]

I also meant to say that we always hear that blacks compare negatively to whites on income, education, and crime. However, these are averages, which can be deceptive.

Maybe only a small subgroup of blacks are doing badly, and maybe most are doing well. The small subgroup could bring the average way down.

We are told that blacks are doing worse because of the systemic racism keeping them down. But maybe it's just that some of them got trapped in poverty and drug addiction.

Just a thought.

 

[watsup]

The word "nationalism" might be at the center of the current divisiveness, since it means very different things to different groups.

To most Trump supporters, it probably means the opposite of globalism. Caring about America and its interests first.

To most Democrats, it probably means something like fascism, or white supremacy. That's why they think of Trump as a fascist/Nazi.

But which is the real meaning of the word "nationalism?"

The "left" has been influenced by Marxism, and Marx thought nations (and religions) were the cause of wars and should be abolished. The idea is that the whole world should, and could, get along. So that could be one reason Democrats, who have been very influenced by the "left" recently, don't like nationalism.

Another reason Democrats (in general, today) don't like nationalism is, of course, that they don't like anything that Trump and his supporters like.

But another big reason is that nationalism does sometimes shade into white nationalism, and white supremacy. Which, of course, Democrats (and most rational Republicans) despise.

Breitbart, Steve Bannon, Stephen Miller -- they all are advocates for European/American culture. They believe it is a superior culture, because it has been the most advanced in terms of technology and wealth.

Most of the famous inventors and explorers of our culture have been Europeans or Americans (not as much currently, but going back a ways). And of course Europeans are called the "white" race, because they are lighter than most others.

So because of their love of Western culture, and their desire to defend it against attacks and political correctness, they can be accused of being racists.

It should be possible for someone to say the great modern achievements in science, technology, the arts, etc., have been thanks to Western culture without their being an actual racist. I mean, it is a fact so pretending it isn't true would not be possible.

But is it because the white race is somehow superior? In my opinion no, it is not superior. But some people might look at the differences in achievement between Western countries and for example African countries and say it proves racial superiority.

First of all, remember that Western culture is only superior in certain things, and is probably much worse than other cultures in some other things. Also, we are all the same species and scientists don't necessarily think there are racial divisions.

There is, however, epigenetics, which is not yet well understood. But we know that cultural traits can be inherited. So, for example, if a culture values literacy maybe reading and writing skills will be passed down, resulting in higher average IQ scores for that culture.
.u
It is possible that some ethnic groups (sometimes called "races") have advantages in math and verbal skills. But even if that is true, it is not carved in DNA. Epigenetics can be changed by what you do in your life, and then passed down to your kids.

American blacks probably came from non-literate African cultures, and as slaves they were not taught to read and write. So they might have some epigenetic disadvantage in our culture where math and verbal skills are important.

Notice that blacks, in general, have no disadvantage in music or athletics.

Epigenetic limitations can be overcome by learning and practice. We should never give up on something we want to do because we don't have "natural talent" for it. Talent is acquired by individuals, as well as inherited. If you didn't inherit a certain talent you just have to work harder and longer at it.

This is just an attempt to make sense of some of the current confusion and rage.

This is just a typical right-wing screen against “leftists” thinly disguised as “thoughtfulness” when it’s actually nothing of the sort, plus a hidden racist agenda. Right-wingers spend a lot of time trying to soften the phrase “white nationalism”. Note how he subtly slanders “the left by tying them with Marxism. Another typical right-winger trick.
“They believe it is a superior culture”. Yes, that is the very definition of racism, but he defends them against that label too.
Lots of words with a hidden right-wing agenda. He also noted how “leftists” “don’t like anything that Trump and his supporters like” but neglected to make the same charge against his fellow right-wingers. BAH!

 

[Simpletruther]

My problem with your thesis is much of the achievement was done while enslaving or discriminating other racial and ethnic groups.

You can't celebrate the achievement without acknowledging the sin.

I am not just talking about white v black. Think of Irish Catholics or Asians.

There wasn't a group, including their own women, that the "original" White Male European settlers didn't mistreat/murder in the name of American greatness and achievement.

I understand what you are saying but can't ignore the horrific reality of the culture of the achievement you talk about.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Most every culture/ethnic group had all kinds of evil back in the day.

You can romanticize all you want, but Africans enslaved other blacks, native Americans ruthlessly killed one another for eons etc etc.

 

[watsup]

Lately I don't hear Democrats saying anything respectful about this country. They don't feel they can love a country that practiced slavery. Never mind that it's also the country that ended slavery, and gave rights to women. Never mind that slavery was everywhere, including white slavery.

The history books have been re-written to push the progressive narrative. Which hates Western culture. And that's why we got Trump.

More right-wing slander: “I don’t hear Democrats saying anything good about this country”.
Ummm....maybe you should quit watching FOX where they define Democrats in just that fashion.
And the rest is just more normal right-wing slander against Democrats. Hates Western culture. Also the typical right-wing attempt to diminish the scourge of black slavery in this country by bringing up other slavery. Two wrongs do not make a right, nor does one wrong in any way diminish what happened to the blacks slaves on the Old South,or the fact that a:self-described “nation” went to war in order to maintain and extend that slavery. That’s not “progressive” history, that’s REAL history whether you like it or. It.

 

[watsup]

Most every culture had all kinds of evil back in the day.

You can romanticize all you want, but Africans enslaved other blacks, native Americans ruthlessly killed one another for eons etc etc.

Just as I pointed out in my last post, bring up slavery and here once the right-wingers out of the dark corners to try to diminish it by comparing it to other events. Yes, that is what the right-wing racists ALWAYS do. Unerringly.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Most every culture/ethnic group had all kinds of evil back in the day.

You can romanticize all you want, but Africans enslaved other blacks, native Americans ruthlessly killed one another for eons etc etc.

And white enslaved whites -- serfs were slaves, because landowners owned them along with the land. This practice continued into the late 1800s in Russia, for example.

 

[watsup]

And white enslaved whites -- serfs were slaves, because landowners owned them along with the land. This practice continued into the late 1800s in Russia, for example.

Point proven again. Let’s talk about other slavery so that we don’t have to focus on the scourge of slavery that occurred in this country. I suspect more right-winger will scurry out of the dark corners to join in. It always happens. Always.
The racism of the right in the spotlight again.

 

[Simpletruther]

Just as I pointed out in my last post, bring up slavery and here once the right-wingers out of the dark corners to try to diminish it by comparing it to other events. Yes, that is what the right-wing racists ALWAYS do. Unerringly.

Nonsense post, I diminished nothing.

 

[truthatallcost]

My problem with your thesis is much of the achievement was done while enslaving or discriminating other racial and ethnic groups.

You can't celebrate the achievement without acknowledging the sin.

I am not just talking about white v black. Think of Irish Catholics or Asians.

There wasn't a group, including their own women, that the "original" White Male European settlers didn't mistreat/murder in the name of American greatness and achievement.

I understand what you are saying but can't ignore the horrific reality of the culture of the achievement you talk about.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

None of that is unique to the US or countries with a European/Caucasian majority. What is unique is that the US and Europe abandoned those practices, while the rest of the world hasn't. See the slave trade in Libya, or the ethnic murders in south Africa for reference. Or China's mistreatment of the Uighar population. None of what you mentioned is unique to white male European settlers.

 

[watsup]

None of that is unique to the US or countries with a European/Caucasian majority. What is unique is that the US and Europe abandoned those practices, while the rest of the world hasn't. See the slave trade in Libya, or the ethnic murders in south Africa for reference. Or China's mistreatment of the Uighar population. None of what you mentioned is unique to white male European settlers.

Point proven again. Diminish the scourge of slavery in the US by comparing it to other instances.
I have yet to actually come across a right-winger who can simply say “black slavery that was practiced in the Old South was absolutely terrible and a stain on the nation” and leave it at that. Why not?

 

[Good4Nothin]

Point proven again. Diminish the scourge of slavery in the US by comparing it to other instances.
I have yet to actually come across a right-winger who can simply say “black slavery that was practiced in the Old South was absolutely terrible and a stain on the nation” and leave it at that. Why not?

Because it's better to have some perspective. Slavery was practiced almost everywhere, but one of the first societies to end it was the US.

You like to think in rigid little boxes. Anyone who doesn't completely see things your way is a "right winger." Slavery in the US was horrible horrible we will never live it down. Forgetting that it was also practiced in Africa, and that the American slaves were bought from African slave owners.

 

[truthatallcost]

Point proven again. Diminish the scourge of slavery in the US by comparing it to other instances.
I have yet to actually come across a right-winger who can simply say “black slavery that was practiced in the Old South was absolutely terrible and a stain on the nation” and leave it at that. Why not?

Many have said that, and that's never enough to satisfy people who are beating the proverbial dead horse of American slavery, while not giving two figs about modern slavery. Obama's policies in Africa resulted in the revitalization of black slavery at the hands of Arab Muslims. Liberals are less interested in the fact than they are with constantly harping on about American slavery, which ended 155 years ago. You guys are like civil war reenactment drama clubs, fixated on damning the present and future because you're stuck somewhere in the 1860s.

 

[watsup]

Because it's better to have some perspective. Slavery was practiced almost everywhere, but one of the first societies to end it was the US.

You like to think in rigid little boxes. Anyone who doesn't completely see things your way is a "right winger." Slavery in the US was horrible horrible we will never live it down. Forgetting that it was also practiced in Africa, and that the American slaves were bought from African slave owners.

You continue to prove my point. As a right-winger, you are simply unable to say that slavery in the US was horrible without then adding a BUT!
Blacks are not stupid. They know what you Republicans think. That’s why they vote for Democrats.

 

[watsup]

Many have said that, and that's never enough to satisfy people who are beating the proverbial dead horse of American slavery, while not giving two figs about modern slavery. Obama's policies in Africa resulted in the revitalization of black slavery at the hands of Arab Muslims. Liberals are less interested in the fact than they are with constantly harping on about American slavery, which ended 155 years ago. You guys are like civil war reenactment drama clubs, fixated on damning the present and future because you're stuck somewhere in the 1860s.

Let’s see a slander against Obama followed by a slander (stuck in the 1860s) against liberals.
In actuality, we just get tired of the latent racism of you Republican right-wingers. If you don’t believe that is true, all you have to do it to look at the thread list earth single day to see how many right-wingers have started NEGATIVE threads about blacks. It’s constant.

 

[Whythink]

None of that is unique to the US or countries with a European/Caucasian majority. What is unique is that the US and Europe abandoned those practices, while the rest of the world hasn't. See the slave trade in Libya, or the ethnic murders in south Africa for reference. Or China's mistreatment of the Uighar population. None of what you mentioned is unique to white male European settlers.

True.

However, the OP states, "Breitbart, Steve Bannon, Stephen Miller -- they all are advocates for European/American culture. They believe it is a superior culture, because it has been the most advanced in terms of technology and wealth.

Most of the famous inventors and explorers of our culture have been Europeans or Americans (not as much currently, but going back a ways). And of course Europeans are called the "white" race, because they are lighter than most others.

So because of their love of Western culture, and their desire to defend it against attacks and political correctness, they can be accused of being racists."

So focusing on the topic makes the conversation not so simplistic ss, they did it to.

As i stated earlier, when specifically celebrating a culture for its accomplishments, you can't ignore the sins.

The problem i have is when the celebration becomes blind to the realities of history. Heck, the OP basically says, if you can't blindly celebrate the US accomplishments, you are just being "politically correct".

I find that argument lazy and disingenuous.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[watsup]

True.

However, the OP states, "Breitbart, Steve Bannon, Stephen Miller -- they all are advocates for European/American culture. They believe it is a superior culture, because it has been the most advanced in terms of technology and wealth.

Most of the famous inventors and explorers of our culture have been Europeans or Americans (not as much currently, but going back a ways). And of course Europeans are called the "white" race, because they are lighter than most others.

So because of their love of Western culture, and their desire to defend it against attacks and political correctness, they can be accused of being racists."

So focusing on the topic makes the conversation not so simplistic ss, they did it to.

As i stated earlier, when specifically celebrating a culture for its accomplishments, you can't ignore the sins.

The problem i have is when the celebration becomes blind to the realities of history. Heck, the OP basically says, if you can't blindly celebrate the US accomplishments, you are just being "politically correct".

I find that argument lazy and disingenuous.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Excellent.

 

[Citizen]

The word "nationalism" might be at the center of the current divisiveness, since it means very different things to different groups.

To most Trump supporters, it probably means the opposite of globalism. Caring about America and its interests first.

To most Democrats, it probably means something like fascism, or white supremacy. That's why they think of Trump as a fascist/Nazi.

But which is the real meaning of the word "nationalism?"

The "left" has been influenced by Marxism, and Marx thought nations (and religions) were the cause of wars and should be

Breitbart, Steve Bannon, Stephen Miller -- they all are advocates for European/American culture. They believe it is a superior culture, because it has been the most advanced in terms of technology and wealth.

Most of the famous inventors and explorers of our culture have been Europeans or Americans (not as much currently, but going back a ways). And of course Europeans are called the "white" race, because they are lighter than most others.

So because of their love of Western culture, and their desire to defend it against attacks and political correctness, they can be accused of being racists.

It should be possible for someone to say the great modern achievements in science, technology, the arts, etc., have been thanks to Western culture without their being an actual racist. I mean, it is a fact so pretending it isn't true would not be possible.

But is it because the white race is somehow superior? In my opinion no, it is not superior. But some people might look at the differences in achievement between Western countries and for example African countries and say it proves racial superiority.

First of all, remember that Western culture is only superior in certain things, and is probably much worse than other cultures in some other things. Also, we are all the same species and scientists don't necessarily think there are racial divisions.

There is, however, epigenetics, which is not yet well understood. But we know that cultural traits can be inherited. So, for example, if a culture values literacy maybe reading and writing skills will be passed down, resulting in higher average IQ scores for that culture.

It is possible that some ethnic groups (sometimes called "races") have advantages in math and verbal skills. But even if that is true, it is not carved in DNA. Epigenetics can be changed by what you do in your life, and then passed down to your kids.

American blacks probably came from non-literate African cultures, and as slaves they were not taught to read and write. So they might have some epigenetic disadvantage in our culture where math and verbal skills are important.

Notice that blacks, in general, have no disadvantage in music or athletics.

Epigenetic limitations can be overcome by learning and practice. We should never give up on something we want to do because we don't have "natural talent" for it. Talent is acquired by individuals, as well as inherited. If you didn't inherit a certain talent you just have to work harder and longer at it.

This is just an attempt to make sense of some of the current confusion and rage.

The confusion and rage comes from slavery as indicated in the 1619 project. If we want to find distinctions in cultures, we just have to look at world history. Europe s were invaders and conquerors. Other cultures like Asian and African cultures respected other cultures and were content with their own environments. Asians invented gun power. Africans invented medicine.

Slavery instilled a feeling of superiority over black people which has never gone away. This feeling of superiority spilled over to Asians and people of other races and religions. Nationalism give uneducated white Americans a feeling of superiority over other countries. But if you have not traveled abroad, then you will not realize than technologically and educationally, we are inferior to many nations. Many other nations in this world have a superior education system, transportation system and a better healthcare system than we have. Yes we were once the greatest nation on earth, but not so much now.

Many white people in this country have lost their good paying factory jobs, now they find themselves in the same situation the poor inner city blacks are in. Now they are angry. Poverty fuels anger. So who does the white jobless man blame. They blame the “other”. Blacks, hispanics, Jews, and Muslims.

 

[truthatallcost]

True.

However, the OP states, "Breitbart, Steve Bannon, Stephen Miller -- they all are advocates for European/American culture. They believe it is a superior culture, because it has been the most advanced in terms of technology and wealth.

Most of the famous inventors and explorers of our culture have been Europeans or Americans (not as much currently, but going back a ways). And of course Europeans are called the "white" race, because they are lighter than most others.

So because of their love of Western culture, and their desire to defend it against attacks and political correctness, they can be accused of being racists."

So focusing on the topic makes the conversation not so simplistic ss, they did it to.

As i stated earlier, when specifically celebrating a culture for its accomplishments, you can't ignore the sins.

The problem i have is when the celebration becomes blind to the realities of history. Heck, the OP basically says, if you can't blindly celebrate the US accomplishments, you are just being "politically correct".

I find that argument lazy and disingenuous.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Breitbart and Miller are Jews, and I think they recognize that their people are better protected by a white European society than they would be in a minority-majority one. I don't see a problem with that. Bannon isn't much of a white nationalist either..i think the problem here is that we're conflating white conservatives with white nationalists, when the two are actually bitter enemies. White nationalists believe that the Trump presidency is a total failure, and he's been co-opted by his donors to abandon everything he stood for in his campaign of 2015-2016.

You can certainly find fault in America's history, but those who do choose to hyper focus on America's shortcomings do so without context, without acknowledging that while America's failures aren't unique, our prosperity and opportunity certainly are. For example, you can be enslaved or
killed in northern Africa for the color of your skin, but you cannot rise above the socioeconomic position that you were born into. That is, unless you migrate away from northern Africa and settle in Europe or the United States.

People who complain about how bad or unfair the US is, usually end up sounding uneducated or inexperienced. In order to say that the US is unfair, you must provide an example of a society that isn't unfair. The left wing simply never does that. They're solely focused on berating Americans and trashing our history, and that is their only viable way of attaining power; by spreading discontent.