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White House: We will send more troops in Iraq

CurrentAffairs said:
Not in matters confronting the Commander-in-Chief. He alone makes the call.
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He does make the call, but he also does deserve criticism, in my opinion, for his blatant disregard of what the majority of the American people (including Congress) want.
 
dclxvinoise said:
Yes, it is my opinion. I always assumed that debate involves arguing your opinions and viewpoints with others. Aren't your views based on your opinions as well?
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When offering an opinion, I like to say it is such up front, rather than try and pass it off as a fact. Let's take the topic, for instance. You say that Bush did not act as a servant of the public when he announced the troop surge. I recognized that as opinion and asked you to support it. You were wise to admit that it is an opinion and nothing more. When we look closer at the duties of Commander-in-Chief, we learn that he makes the call on our behalf - even for those who may disagree.

The King comment. Again, you worded your opinion as if it were fact, which of course it isn't.

You are correct in one sense, though. There are appropriate forums that call for commentary and do not have to be backed up. Breaking News isn't one of them.
 
dclxvinoise said:
He does make the call, but he also does deserve criticism, in my opinion, for his blatant disregard of what the majority of the American people (including Congress) want.
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Sure, criticize all you like. You have every right. Criticism is different than saying "he must take my viewpoint into consideration." But don't be offended when someone recognizes it as criticism when you thought you were passing it off as fact.
 
CurrentAffairs said:
When offering an opinion, I like to say it is such up front, rather than try and pass it off as a fact. Let's take the topic, for instance. You say that Bush did not act as a servant of the public when he announced the troop surge. I recognized that as opinion and asked you to support it. You were wise to admit that it is an opinion and nothing more. When we look closer at the duties of Commander-in-Chief, we learn that he makes the call on our behalf - even for those who may disagree.

The King comment. Again, you worded your opinion as if it were fact, which of course it isn't.

You are correct in one sense, though. There are appropriate forums that call for commentary and do not have to be backed up. Breaking News isn't one of them.
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The differences between fact and opinion are blatantly obvious enough that they don't require a disclaimer beforehand.
 
CurrentAffairs said:
Sure, criticize all you like. You have every right. Criticism is different than saying "he must take my viewpoint into consideration." But don't be offended when someone recognizes it as criticism when you thought you were passing it off as fact.
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Not once during our exchange was I offended. Again, I think that the differences between fact and opinion are blatantly obvious enough that they don't require a disclaimer beforehand. In fact, very little on these forums are fact. Sure, they may include various facts, but they are coming from a certain point of view and are therefore skewed. One could glean from your posts that you are coming from a conservative point of view. If everything in these forums were required to be fact and nothing more there would be no reason for debate or political viewpoint.
 
dclxvinoise said:
The differences between fact and opinion are blatantly obvious enough that they don't require a disclaimer beforehand.
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Really? Even this:

"His (Bush) Generals were opposed to this (a surge), so he had them replaced."

That lie has been floating around for a couple of weeks now. Many people actually think it's true. But even as you, yourself said, it isn't.
 
CurrentAffairs said:
Really? Even this:

"His (Bush) Generals were opposed to this (a surge), so he had them replaced."

That lie has been floating around for a couple of weeks now. Many people actually think it's true. But even as you, yourself said, it isn't.
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That is open to debate. The published reason for the replacement was that he wanted a fresh perspective on the war and wanted to start with a clean slate. Again, I'm extremely cynical and skeptical at this point with anything that this Administration comes up with.
 
dclxvinoise said:
That is open to debate.
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Not really. Because when I asked you to support it, you couldn't. Rather, you quickly admitted that it was only your "cynical and skeptical opinion" and could not be proven. End of debate.
 
CurrentAffairs said:
Not really. Because when I asked you to support it, you couldn't. Rather, you quickly admitted that it was only your "cynical and skeptical opinion" and could not be proven. End of debate.
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Of course it can't be proven. Only the Bush Administration knows the real reason behind why he had the Generals replaced. You also stated that my opinion on the reason was a lie, when you can't disprove it with anything other than "because they said it wasn't".
 
dclxvinoise said:
Of course it can't be proven. Only the Bush Administration knows the real reason behind why he had the Generals replaced. You also stated that my opinion on the reason was a lie, when you can't disprove it with anything other than "because they said it wasn't".
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Sorry, but unless you are able to prove your assertion...

"His (Bush) Generals were opposed to this (a surge), so he had them replaced."

...then it's a lie.
 
CurrentAffairs said:
Sorry, but unless you are able to prove your assertion, then it's a lie.
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No, it's an opinion. Can you prove that it isn't true aside from using the reason published by the White House?
 
dclxvinoise said:
No, it's an opinion. Can you prove that it isn't true aside from using the reason published by the White House?
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You're missing the point. The White House didn't publish a reason. All we have is your assertion - which, until you prove it, turns out to be false. Asking for proof that something didn't happen is inane. It can't be done. Junior High Debate 101.
 
Current:

Your reasoning on this post and so many others is so circular that it has you spinning and spinning....

So the administration lies about the reason the generals are replaced and because they lied and didn't tell the truth....you have to accept the lie as truth....because that's what they said.....and because what they said is what they said....then you have to believe that is the truth....because after all.....the truth is only what they said even if it is a lie.


.......link please.
 
CurrentAffairs said:
and you know this how?
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Its called using your brain and deduction from the surrounding facts.....vs. blindly accepting every talking point from the administration. You should really try it sometime. Logic is an incredibly powerful thing if you actually apply it sometime.

Let me give you a good example...current. You know how you love to post "link please....?" Try applying the same critical thinking to the administration when your heros say something like this:

"Bin Laden doesn't think he can beat us. He believes he can force us to quit," Cheney said, citing US military setbacks in Lebanon and Somalia that led to US withdrawals from those countries.

"They're convinced that the United States will, in fact, pack it in and go home if they just kill enough of us," he said.
 
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disneydude said:
Its called using your brain and deduction from the surrounding facts.....vs. blindly accepting every talking point from the administration.
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That's just it, Einstein. The administration didn't say why they were replaced. There is no talking point. You have, like always, come up with a reason for their replacement that suits your extremist and hateful view. Sorry, but my "brain and deduction" tells me something much more logical.
 
OK...if your brain and logic speak so loudly....answer the second part of the post....why do you simply accept the adminstration's talking points.....when you are so big on links?????
 
disneydude said:
OK...if your brain and logic speak so loudly....answer the second part of the post....why do you simply accept the adminstration's talking points.....when you are so big on links?????
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What talking point are you suggesting I have accepted? What are you talking about?
 
CurrentAffairs said:
What talking point are you suggesting I have accepted? What are you talking about?
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ahhhhh...just about anything that this administration says. You, more than anybody on these boards comes to the defense of GWB and his administration when anyone so much as hints of criticism towards them.
So.....when they say outrageous things like Cheney said in my post.....why do you simply accept them as truth?
Or come out and call them on it.
 
disneydude said:
ahhhhh...just about anything that this administration says.
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so you're upset that I accept talking points (whatever that means), but you're unable to cite an example of one? :roll:

Get back to me when you're more prepared.
 
CurrentAffairs said:
so you're upset that I accept talking points (whatever that means), but you're unable to cite an example of one? :roll:

Get back to me when you're more prepared.
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I see you are running again from the issue.
Do you accept Cheney's talking points? Or are you prepared to call him on it and require that he provide a "link" for his assertions?

Come on CA.....put it on the line......Do you believe what Cheney is saying or do you think it is propoganda....and what do you base it on.
 
CurrentAffairs said:
So by your interpretation of things, he should change directions every time the polls say so? Who do you think he is, John Kerry?
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The democratic election results of the House of Representatives and the Senate are hardly "polls".
 
disneydude said:
I see you are running again from the issue.
Do you accept Cheney's talking points? Or are you prepared to call him on it and require that he provide a "link" for his assertions?

Come on CA.....put it on the line......Do you believe what Cheney is saying or do you think it is propoganda....and what do you base it on.
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I wish you made just a little bit of sense. What has Cheney said that has you in such a lather? Maybe if I knew that much, we could have a conversation.
 
All you have to do Current is follow the thread to know. It was posted previously.
The point is.....you accept everything that Cheney and Bush say without any critical thought.....but when anyone voices a thought on this board you are notorious for your token slogan "Link Please".

So the question is....when Cheney says something like this....are you prepared to come out and say that there is no link to any credible evidence to support what he is saying.....or do you not require it of anyone other than the posters on this board?....especially if they happen to be your VP.


disneydude said:
"Bin Laden doesn't think he can beat us. He believes he can force us to quit," Cheney said, citing US military setbacks in Lebanon and Somalia that led to US withdrawals from those countries.

"They're convinced that the United States will, in fact, pack it in and go home if they just kill enough of us," he said.
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disneydude said:
All you have to do Current is follow the thread to know. It was posted previously.
The point is.....you accept everything that Cheney and Bush say without any critical thought.....but when anyone voices a thought on this board you are notorious for your token slogan "Link Please".

So the question is....when Cheney says something like this....are you prepared to come out and say that there is no link to any credible evidence to support what he is saying.....or do you not require it of anyone other than the posters on this board?....especially if they happen to be your VP.
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I'm sorry, disney. I'm really trying to follow your line of questioning, but I haven't got a clue as to what you're getting at.

Are you saying that someone used the quote you posted without providing a link? If that happened, I missed it. Sorry.

Are you saying that Cheney said this? What is it concerning? From what I can tell, the person who said this believes bin laden is in favor of our pulling out and surrendering to the war on terror? Are you upset that whoever expressed this opinion didn't provide evidence to support it?

More importantly, why is it crucial that I have an opinion on this quote and whoever said it?

Sorry, man, but I'm not understanding.

By the way, why do you say I accept everything Bush and Cheney say? How do you know that to be true ? Because it isn't.
 
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