White House: Gaza flotilla activists may be breaking U.S. law

[toomuchtime_]

Re: Greece blocks departure of all Gaza-bound ships

there is no personal attacks from me. i'm simply stating the facts. it's impossible to have a multitude of threads about the same thing and repeat yourself over and over without become frustrated.

you talk about staying on topic to the 6TH thread you have made in the last week regarding the flotilla. your OP in the thread simply said The life of an anti Israeli militant on a fake humanitarian aid mission ain't easy.

a reasonable person would consider your first post to be nothing other than baiting.

i refer to discuss the Israel/Palestine issue with people who are here for the right reasons. not just to bicker.

have a nice day.

If you are unable to distinguish the different topics of the different threads about the flotilla, I can see that limitation would frustrate you, but each of them discusses a different aspect of the flotilla. Perhaps they all seem the same to you because they all reflect negatively on the flotilla, albeit in different ways.

I'm not sure why you would feel "baited" by the OP. Clearly the purpose of the aid is to fraudulently misrepresent the true purpose of the flotilla, which is to break the Israeli military blockade, and since the flotilla has this military purpose, clearly the organizers and passengers can fairly be called militants.

 

[Shayah]

Re: Greece blocks departure of all Gaza-bound ships

There’s going to be quite a few very surprised (and embarrassed) posters here when the official UN Report on the Mavi Mamara flotilla is released shortly. This is one of the reasons why Greece has changed her tune regarding the current flotilla, why nations are withdrawing support, and why Egypt is doing everything possible to ensure that all Gaza flotilla ships dock in an Egyptian port for inspection and off-loading.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Re: Greece blocks departure of all Gaza-bound ships

It's not that hard to understand. Breaking the blockade makes it easier for the Gaza terrorists to import weapons

Ohh the old terrorist card.. This blockade took place after Hamas took control of the Gaza strip from Fatah... Why was there no blockade under Fatah? Plus there is no proof that Hamas or Fatah were importing weapons into the Gaza strip by sea..

which constitutes giving aid to terrorist organizations

Any proof of this?
I think your just making this **** up..

which is a violation of international law and the laws of most western countries.

These aid organizations are not donating aid to terrorist organizations.

The aid is just an attempt to fraudulently misrepresent the purpose of the flotilla, which is to break the blockade. Since they are sailing with a military objective, to break a military blockade, they are militants, and to the extent they see aiding the Gaza terrorists in obtaining weapons as a purpose of the flotilla, they are terrorists.

:doh
Your whole post is just one giant face palm.

 

[gunner]

Re: Greece blocks departure of all Gaza-bound ships

There’s going to be quite a few very surprised (and embarrassed) posters here when the official UN Report on the Mavi Mamara flotilla is released shortly. This is one of the reasons why Greece has changed her tune regarding the current flotilla, why nations are withdrawing support, and why Egypt is doing everything possible to ensure that all Gaza flotilla ships dock in an Egyptian port for inspection and off-loading.

Have you something to share?

Paul

 

[Demon of Light]

Re: Greece blocks departure of all Gaza-bound ships

There’s going to be quite a few very surprised (and embarrassed) posters here when the official UN Report on the Mavi Mamara flotilla is released shortly. This is one of the reasons why Greece has changed her tune regarding the current flotilla, why nations are withdrawing support, and why Egypt is doing everything possible to ensure that all Gaza flotilla ships dock in an Egyptian port for inspection and off-loading.

The moment I saw that Alvaro Uribe was the vice-chairman on that report I understood what you mean. I am sure like any good American puppet he will protect imperial interests, like protecting Israel from all serious criticism for its misdeeds that are unreservedly backed by the United States even when Israel takes the lives of America's own citizens.

Can there really be any doubt that Israel's actions in Gaza operate under the full protection of the United States when we threaten our own citizens with aiding terrorism just for engaging in a protest against those actions?

As far as why the nations of the world are changing their tune it is likely because the full weight of the American empire is coming down on them in order to protect its proxy. Of course, it is not like Greece and Egypt are really all that independent of American power in the first place.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Greece arrests Gaza-bound boat captain

Greek authorities have arrested the captain of a boat that was to be part of a Gaza-bound flotilla trying to deliver humanitarian aid to the Palestinian territory, officials said Saturday.

The 60-year-old captain, whose name was not released by authorities, was being held at Piraeus police headquarters and will remain there until a court hearing Tuesday.

Greece's coast guard said the captain of the "Audacity of Hope" faces charges of trying to leave port without permission and of endangering the lives of the boat's passengers. The latter charge is a felony.

Greece arrests Gaza-bound boat captain - Israel News, Ynetnews

The Gazans must be saying, "With friends like these, who needs enemies?" The people running this flotilla seem incompetent enough to go into Palestinian Arab politics.

 

[digsbe]

Re: Greece blocks departure of all Gaza-bound ships

Moderator's Warning:

Serenity and toomuchtime_, please stop discussing each other. This needs to end now.

 

[William Rea]

Re: Greece arrests Gaza-bound boat captain

The Gazans must be saying, "With friends like these, who needs enemies?" The people running this flotilla seem incompetent enough to go into Palestinian Arab politics.

This is the second such thread on the topic of the flotilla that has been started with a link to a story and then some kind of cryptic remark. I don't understand what point you are making regarding the competency of the flotilla organisers or what the relevance of this story is to that accusation?

 

[William Rea]

Re: Greece blocks departure of all Gaza-bound ships

There’s going to be quite a few very surprised (and embarrassed) posters here when the official UN Report on the Mavi Mamara flotilla is released shortly. This is one of the reasons why Greece has changed her tune regarding the current flotilla, why nations are withdrawing support, and why Egypt is doing everything possible to ensure that all Gaza flotilla ships dock in an Egyptian port for inspection and off-loading.

I think Greece is withdrawing support because it is in dire economic straits and is probably already striking a deal somewhere that involves debt relief for "International Cooperation".

This is of course only speculation in the same way that you have done with your attempt to link this with the upcoming UN Mavi Mamara report but I think that my link may be stronger.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Re: Greece arrests Gaza-bound boat captain

This is the second such thread on the topic of the flotilla that has been started with a link to a story and then some kind of cryptic remark. I don't understand what point you are making regarding the competency of the flotilla organisers or what the relevance of this story is to that accusation?

The point is that the organizers and passengers badly misjudged the climate for this kind of escapade. They expected the flotilla to rally support for breaking the blockade and instead it has rallied support for the blockade. Even Turkey, the principal sponsor of last year's flotilla, has withdrawn its support for this one and nearly every country that has expressed an opinion about it, has opposed the flotilla and discouraged its citizens from participating. Trying to outrun the Greek Coast Guard kind of highlights the level of incompetence that has characterized this stunt.

 

[William Rea]

Re: Greece arrests Gaza-bound boat captain

The point is that the organizers and passengers badly misjudged the climate for this kind of escapade. They expected the flotilla to rally support for breaking the blockade and instead it has rallied support for the blockade. Even Turkey, the principal sponsor of last year's flotilla, has withdrawn its support for this one and nearly every country that has expressed an opinion about it, has opposed the flotilla and discouraged its citizens from participating. Trying to outrun the Greek Coast Guard kind of highlights the level of incompetence that has characterized this stunt.

As I pointed out, your original point is so cryptic that I certainly had no idea what you were trying to say however, I appreciate the clarification.

So how does the arrest of the Captain of that boat, a point you reiterated with the comment to "Trying to outrun the Greek Coast Guard kind of highlights the level of incompetence that has characterized this stunt", extrapolate to demonstrating the incompetency in the organisation of the flotilla? You can try to use it as a rhetorical metaphor by all means but beyond that it has no actual meaning.

I suggest that the ability of the organisers of this flotilla to outwit National Governmental organisations does not reflect on their competence or the popular support from ordinary people for this action. It tends to reflect more on the ability of the USA to influence World Politics.

If this flotilla is being organised in the background by clever terrorists such as Hamas how come it is so incompetent? Doesn't this undermine the case for how effective and organised the terrorists are?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Re: Greece arrests Gaza-bound boat captain

As I pointed out, your original point is so cryptic that I certainly had no idea what you were trying to say however, I appreciate the clarification.

So how does the arrest of the Captain of that boat, a point you reiterated with the comment to "Trying to outrun the Greek Coast Guard kind of highlights the level of incompetence that has characterized this stunt", extrapolate to demonstrating the incompetency in the organisation of the flotilla? You can try to use it as a rhetorical metaphor by all means but beyond that it has no actual meaning.

I suggest that the ability of the organisers of this flotilla to outwit National Governmental organisations does not reflect on their competence or the popular support from ordinary people for this action. It tends to reflect more on the ability of the USA to influence World Politics.

If this flotilla is being organised in the background by clever terrorists such as Hamas how come it is so incompetent? Doesn't this undermine the case for how effective and organised the terrorists are?

I never considered the Palestinian Arab terrorists to be clever, just ruthless and brutal. If fact, if you think about it, just about every time the Palestinian Arab terrorists take the initiative, it turns out badly for the Palestinian Arab people. So while I don't claim to know if this flotilla was organized by terrorists or terrorist sympathizers, if it was, it should be no surprise that it is turning out so badly.

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Greece arrests Gaza-bound boat captain

So how does the arrest of the Captain of that boat, a point you reiterated with the comment to "Trying to outrun the Greek Coast Guard kind of highlights the level of incompetence that has characterized this stunt", extrapolate to demonstrating the incompetency in the organisation of the flotilla? You can try to use it as a rhetorical metaphor by all means but beyond that it has no actual meaning.

The flotilla looks stupid and it is making the blockade stronger. One can continue to support it, but that support has officially been relegated to a small fringe. The flotilla is a major fail.

 

[Serenity]

Re: Greece arrests Gaza-bound boat captain

So while I don't claim to know if this flotilla was organized by terrorists or terrorist sympathizers, if it was, it should be no surprise that it is turning out so badly.

but it's not is it?

unless you are saying Israeli Security officials are lying. which obviously they are not because if they did have information that terrorists or anyone affiliated with a terror group is planning to take part in the flotilla you would have already made a thread about it.

 

[ido_]

Re: Greece blocks departure of all Gaza-bound ships

Have you something to share?

Paul

The media in Israel suggested that the recent warm up in the Turkey-Israeli relations is due to the fact that the flotila commite is going to be very critical of Turkey's involvment in the whole afair, the Turks reached Israel and asked for its involvment in toning down the critisizem against Turkey in return for trying to recover our international relations, it is also suggested that due to the report forming up the Turks withdrew from the current flotila.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Re: Greece blocks departure of all Gaza-bound ships

The media in Israel suggested that the recent warm up in the Turkey-Israeli relations is due to the fact that the flotila commite is going to be very critical of Turkey's involvment in the whole afair, the Turks reached Israel and asked for its involvment in toning down the critisizem against Turkey in return for trying to recover our international relations, it is also suggested that due to the report forming up the Turks withdrew from the current flotila.

And according to a Turkish paper,

A draft of the report, due to be released within two weeks, was given to Israel and Turkey about six weeks ago. The UN committee, according to the Haaretz report, determined that Israel's naval blockade of Gaza is in line with international law, and therefore Israeli actions to stop the flotilla were also legal.

Report: Turkey seeks Israeli approval to soften UN flotilla criticism

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Greece arrests Gaza-bound boat captain

The flotilla is not a fail because it lacked terrorists or weapons, it is a fail because the world now overwhelmingly supports the blockade. The flotilla being clean is irrelevent, all that matters is that it has been rejected almost universally - making the blockade stronger than ever.

.....

I must make this joke:

the captain of the "Audacity of Hope" faces charges of trying to leave port without permission and of endangering the lives of the boat's passengers

Obama haters.

 

[X Factor]

Re: Greece arrests Gaza-bound boat captain

but it's not is it?

unless you are saying Israeli Security officials are lying. which obviously they are not because if they did have information that terrorists or anyone affiliated with a terror group is planning to take part in the flotilla you would have already made a thread about it.

Why are you responding to Toomuchtime as if he said there were terrorists involved in this weak ass flotilla? He clearly said he's making no such claim.

 

[William Rea]

Re: Greece arrests Gaza-bound boat captain

I never considered the Palestinian Arab terrorists to be clever, just ruthless and brutal. If fact, if you think about it, just about every time the Palestinian Arab terrorists take the initiative, it turns out badly for the Palestinian Arab people. So while I don't claim to know if this flotilla was organized by terrorists or terrorist sympathizers, if it was, it should be no surprise that it is turning out so badly.

Being ruthless and brutal is not a clever tactic to achieve a political objective?

Arguably, keeping the Palestinian people in a state of heightened fear is a clever tactic to achieving the political objective.

 

[Serenity]

Re: Greece arrests Gaza-bound boat captain

Why are you responding to Toomuchtime as if he said there were terrorists involved in this weak ass flotilla? He clearly said he's making no such claim.

he also said "if it was." there has already been a link posted in one of the many other Flotilla threads where Israeli Security forces have already said that they have no information that suggest terrorists or anyone affiliated with a terror group is planning to take part in the flotilla.

 

[X Factor]

Re: Greece arrests Gaza-bound boat captain

he also said "if it was." there has already been a link posted in one of the many other Flotilla threads where Israeli Security forces have already said that they have no information that suggest terrorists or anyone affiliated with a terror group is planning to take part in the flotilla.

Failing to have information is not the same thing as having information that, for sure, no terrorist organizations are involved.

 

[gunner]

Re: Greece blocks departure of all Gaza-bound ships

The media in Israel suggested that the recent warm up in the Turkey-Israeli relations is due to the fact that the flotila commite is going to be very critical of Turkey's involvment in the whole afair, the Turks reached Israel and asked for its involvment in toning down the critisizem against Turkey in return for trying to recover our international relations, it is also suggested that due to the report forming up the Turks withdrew from the current flotila.

Interesting, have you a link?

[Edited to add. I didn't see the above post prior to my post]

Initially Turkey looked to be either agreeing with the purpose, and actions of the Flotilla, or possibly playing an overtly appeasing game to its Muslim citizens.

Paul

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Greece arrests Gaza-bound boat captain

Being ruthless and brutal is not a clever tactic to achieve a political objective?

Arguably, keeping the Palestinian people in a state of heightened fear is a clever tactic to achieving the political objective.

If clever means 'huge fail', then yes. Being ruthless and brutal, and terrorism, are huge fails. They do not achieve political goals, as Hamas demonstrates.

 

[gunner]

Re: Greece arrests Gaza-bound boat captain

If clever means 'huge fail', then yes. Being ruthless and brutal, and terrorism, are huge fails. They do not achieve political goals, as Hamas demonstrates.

The FLN were extremely successful in embarking on a brutal and ruthless campaign in response to the colonial powers of France. The 'Political' outcome was the undermining of French opinion on the mainland, and the rejection of French rule. I would not consider the tactics of the FLN as a failure in anyway shape or form.

Paul

 

[Tashah]

Re: Greece arrests Gaza-bound boat captain

Moderator's Warning:

Notice: All 6 ME forum threads pertaining to the Greek flotilla have been merged into this single thread.