White America Flees (1 Viewer)

[ngdawg]

article
The New Jersey population's white majority has been declining for years, but the pace of decline has accelerated, new U.S. Census figures suggest.

Only Massachusetts and North Dakota have lost white residents at a faster rate this decade, according estimates released today, and the change has both economic and social significance, experts said.
"Jobs are moving, and they're taking middle-class whites with them," said William Frey, a demographer with the Brookings Institution in Washington, D.C. "Jobs and population go hand in hand."

New Jersey's minority population grew nearly 400,000 between 2000 and 2005, the Census' 2005 race and Hispanic-origin population estimates show, while the white population fell more than 94,000.


Quite frankly, I've thought long and often about leaving NJ. It's impossible to maintain a decent lifestyle because the state is so expensive to live in. People are moving and the homes they leave behind are quickly turned into multple rental units; 4 houses on just our street were torn down or revamped into apartment dwellings just in the past two years and speculators actually have offered to buy others.
I've never considered myself prejudiced. But it gets harder and harder each year to reconcile this with an ever-changing environment where the homes around you echo with caribbean music, german music, hispanic music and voices, where the delis are all lebanese or mexican, even the pizza parlor and the bagel shop are lebanese owned and run. The ESL classes are filled up, the parks are taken up with soccer games where no english is heard, the store where I work has more middle-eastern inspired home decor than anything else and I have to ask customers to repeat themselves because I can't understand them. It's not so much prejudice, perhaps, as a feeling of being a minority in the area you grew up in. Even an british woman I'd befriended, who was married to a lebanese man, had complained about the 'lack of white faces in school' and they moved away.
Of course, the situation is not limited to NJ alone. In Charlotte, NC., the hispanic population has increased over 1,000% in the last 10 years-many are thought to be illegals. There, as in NJ, they choose a representative of the family to buy a home with the combined pool of money, then after closing, move everyone in-sometimes as many as 12 to a house. NJ's Asian-Indian population has grown astoundingly just in the last 10 years; a chart included with the print version shows the Asian population in NJ grew 27.4%, with Hunterdon County's growth being at 60% (these figures are from 2000-2005).
At the same time the white population in that county grew 4.3%, a trend that is opposite of my own county, which declined 7%. My own county lost a total of 32,787 white residents and gained 72,141 nonwhite.
Will this turn me into a card-carrying, KKK-admiring bigot? No. But it does make me uncomfortable to go anywhere and not understand what's being said. And our economy, for a lot of reasons, including the fact that employers know they can hire day workers for a lot less than skilled established labor, is faltering-the businesses here, including where my husband works, are losing important contracts as major companies move out or outsource to Asia and Central America, which makes it very difficult for us to live here.
Are the trends the same in other parts of the country? Are jobs being lost to day workers and outsourcing?

 

[jfuh]

article
The New Jersey population's white majority has been declining for years, but the pace of decline has accelerated, new U.S. Census figures suggest.

Only Massachusetts and North Dakota have lost white residents at a faster rate this decade, according estimates released today, and the change has both economic and social significance, experts said.
"Jobs are moving, and they're taking middle-class whites with them," said William Frey, a demographer with the Brookings Institution in Washington, D.C. "Jobs and population go hand in hand."

New Jersey's minority population grew nearly 400,000 between 2000 and 2005, the Census' 2005 race and Hispanic-origin population estimates show, while the white population fell more than 94,000.


Quite frankly, I've thought long and often about leaving NJ. It's impossible to maintain a decent lifestyle because the state is so expensive to live in. People are moving and the homes they leave behind are quickly turned into multple rental units; 4 houses on just our street were torn down or revamped into apartment dwellings just in the past two years and speculators actually have offered to buy others.
I've never considered myself prejudiced. But it gets harder and harder each year to reconcile this with an ever-changing environment where the homes around you echo with caribbean music, german music, hispanic music and voices, where the delis are all lebanese or mexican, even the pizza parlor and the bagel shop are lebanese owned and run. The ESL classes are filled up, the parks are taken up with soccer games where no english is heard, the store where I work has more middle-eastern inspired home decor than anything else and I have to ask customers to repeat themselves because I can't understand them. It's not so much prejudice, perhaps, as a feeling of being a minority in the area you grew up in. Even an british woman I'd befriended, who was married to a lebanese man, had complained about the 'lack of white faces in school' and they moved away.
Of course, the situation is not limited to NJ alone. In Charlotte, NC., the hispanic population has increased over 1,000% in the last 10 years-many are thought to be illegals. There, as in NJ, they choose a representative of the family to buy a home with the combined pool of money, then after closing, move everyone in-sometimes as many as 12 to a house. NJ's Asian-Indian population has grown astoundingly just in the last 10 years; a chart included with the print version shows the Asian population in NJ grew 27.4%, with Hunterdon County's growth being at 60% (these figures are from 2000-2005).
At the same time the white population in that county grew 4.3%, a trend that is opposite of my own county, which declined 7%. My own county lost a total of 32,787 white residents and gained 72,141 nonwhite.
Will this turn me into a card-carrying, KKK-admiring bigot? No. But it does make me uncomfortable to go anywhere and not understand what's being said. And our economy, for a lot of reasons, including the fact that employers know they can hire day workers for a lot less than skilled established labor, is faltering-the businesses here, including where my husband works, are losing important contracts as major companies move out or outsource to Asia and Central America, which makes it very difficult for us to live here.
Are the trends the same in other parts of the country? Are jobs being lost to day workers and outsourcing?

I don't see if these instances qualify as "day workers" or "outsourcing" as 1. Dayworkers would not have the fields taken up, and out sourcing would not create foreign language speaking neighborhoods.
This is simply the sound of multiculturism. It's change, and it may make it seem a bit uneasy from some ppl not used to it. However this is also what makes the US the strongest nation in the world. A plethora of ideas from a variety of cultures. Times change, information is speeding up, the day when speaking only English to get ahead in the business world is nearing a close.
So get out, and learn a new language or culture, find new expereinces. Stay ahead of the game.
I seriously doubt you'd ever be a KKK member nor neo-Nazi.

 

[Caine]

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-8/115467089081360.xml&coll=1 In Charlotte, NC., the hispanic population has increased over 1,000% in the last 10 years-many are thought to be illegals. There, as in NJ, they choose a representative of the family to buy a home with the combined pool of money, then after closing, move everyone in-sometimes as many as 12 to a house.

This is SO true.
Charlotte is the 8th largest Hispanic Immigrant City (illegal immigrant, however ya want to say it). The problem here is that there is not an immigration court to handle any of the cases, very few ICE agents, and it is the policy of the CMPD not to concern ourselves with Immigration laws, since there is basically not a damned thing we can do about it anyways.

Sue Myrick, our congresswoman, after years of knowing the problem has finally decided this year (an election year, imagine that) that she is going to try to get an immigration court built in Charlotte. So there is no telling how long that will take, but maybe the problem will go away with that.

Personally, I don't give a rats *** that illegals are working and living here, as long as they don't bring a large amount of criminal activity, in which the CMPD crime statistics have shown that Latino gang membership is largely LEGAL immigrants. The only reason why so many illegals are moving to this area, I believe, is because our area is growing so quickly, thus the need for more construction projects, which we all know mexicans can do (im not being racist! just watch Carlos Mencia!).

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

article
The New Jersey population's white majority has been declining for years, but the pace of decline has accelerated, new U.S. Census figures suggest.

Only Massachusetts and North Dakota have lost white residents at a faster rate this decade, according estimates released today, and the change has both economic and social significance, experts said.
"Jobs are moving, and they're taking middle-class whites with them," said William Frey, a demographer with the Brookings Institution in Washington, D.C. "Jobs and population go hand in hand."

New Jersey's minority population grew nearly 400,000 between 2000 and 2005, the Census' 2005 race and Hispanic-origin population estimates show, while the white population fell more than 94,000.


Quite frankly, I've thought long and often about leaving NJ. It's impossible to maintain a decent lifestyle because the state is so expensive to live in. People are moving and the homes they leave behind are quickly turned into multple rental units; 4 houses on just our street were torn down or revamped into apartment dwellings just in the past two years and speculators actually have offered to buy others.
I've never considered myself prejudiced. But it gets harder and harder each year to reconcile this with an ever-changing environment where the homes around you echo with caribbean music, german music, hispanic music and voices, where the delis are all lebanese or mexican, even the pizza parlor and the bagel shop are lebanese owned and run. The ESL classes are filled up, the parks are taken up with soccer games where no english is heard, the store where I work has more middle-eastern inspired home decor than anything else and I have to ask customers to repeat themselves because I can't understand them. It's not so much prejudice, perhaps, as a feeling of being a minority in the area you grew up in. Even an british woman I'd befriended, who was married to a lebanese man, had complained about the 'lack of white faces in school' and they moved away.
Of course, the situation is not limited to NJ alone. In Charlotte, NC., the hispanic population has increased over 1,000% in the last 10 years-many are thought to be illegals. There, as in NJ, they choose a representative of the family to buy a home with the combined pool of money, then after closing, move everyone in-sometimes as many as 12 to a house. NJ's Asian-Indian population has grown astoundingly just in the last 10 years; a chart included with the print version shows the Asian population in NJ grew 27.4%, with Hunterdon County's growth being at 60% (these figures are from 2000-2005).
At the same time the white population in that county grew 4.3%, a trend that is opposite of my own county, which declined 7%. My own county lost a total of 32,787 white residents and gained 72,141 nonwhite.
Will this turn me into a card-carrying, KKK-admiring bigot? No. But it does make me uncomfortable to go anywhere and not understand what's being said. And our economy, for a lot of reasons, including the fact that employers know they can hire day workers for a lot less than skilled established labor, is faltering-the businesses here, including where my husband works, are losing important contracts as major companies move out or outsource to Asia and Central America, which makes it very difficult for us to live here.
Are the trends the same in other parts of the country? Are jobs being lost to day workers and outsourcing?

I, too, live in NJ. I love living here, even with the problems; extremely high property taxes, extremely high auto insurance, population density (and traffic jams), and alot of govenment corruption (can anyone say 'McGrievey'). Perhaps it's just in the area that I live, but immigrants have assimilated well. It is rare that I will go somewhere and have difficulty understanding someone communicating to me. I don't doubt what you're saying ngdawg. Infact, I heard (don't remember where) that NJ will be the first state where whites will be a minority (expected around 2012). The whole immigration thing doesn't bother me much (I'm a multiculteralist) as long as it isn't illegal immigration and as long as immigrants try to assimilate; learning English is a good first step.

Just my :twocents:. :smile:

 

[Patrickt]

People do things and then regret the consequences and look for scapegoats. It isn't the immigrants that are responsible for businesses leaving our older cities, taxes that are ridiculous, and school systems that are disfunctional.

 

[jfuh]

I also heard that in NJ you can't fill up your own gas tank? Is this true? Hell I'd leave too.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I also heard that in NJ you can't fill up your own gas tank? Is this true? Hell I'd leave too.

That is true...and one of the reasons I love NJ. I think Oregon does that, too.

 

[jfuh]

That is true...and one of the reasons I love NJ. I think Oregon does that, too.

??? Why though??? What possible rational argument could be said for not being allowed to fill your own tank?

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

??? Why though??? What possible rational argument could be said for not being allowed to fill your own tank?

I don't want to fill my own gas (if I did, I'd work at a gas station) and, having traveled to other states, finding a station that has 'full serve' is sometimes difficult. I guess if full serve was always an option, I wouldn't care if NJ allowed self service.

 

[Patrickt]

Apparently, the State of New Jersey doesn't think their residents are competent to pump gas.

 

[ngdawg]

I prefer pumping my own gas. Swipe the card, gas up, get out.
In NJ, it's pull up, wait for the attendant, repeat your request because he can't speak english (hehehe:mrgreen: ), wait for him to finish the other car, come to yours, put the hose in, leave for 10 minutes, come back....ugh. And if the station doesn't have pumps that you can swipe a card, it's another 5 minute wait while he does it the old fashioned way and you have to sign off on it.
One time after driving cross country and feeling the freedom of pumping my own gas, I had to stop at a station on the NJ turnpike....5th car waiting in line. Lady in front of me hands over her credit card. Attendant goes to his booth, runs the card, it's no good...go BACK to the lady, get another card, wait some more.....
NJ has tried and tried to bring self-serve to the state, but the station owners are a pretty good group. The ironic part is that, just in the last two weeks there have been reports in the newspaper about attendants skimming cash and double charging to get the cash-that'd probably be reduced a lot with self-serve. THere was also one guy arrested for assault...he was reaching into the windows of female drivers and copping feels.

 

[Rogue]

I don't see if these instances qualify as "day workers" or "outsourcing" as 1. Dayworkers would not have the fields taken up, and out sourcing would not create foreign language speaking neighborhoods.
This is simply the sound of multiculturism. It's change, and it may make it seem a bit uneasy from some ppl not used to it. However this is also what makes the US the strongest nation in the world. A plethora of ideas from a variety of cultures. Times change, information is speeding up, the day when speaking only English to get ahead in the business world is nearing a close.
So get out, and learn a new language or culture, find new expereinces. Stay ahead of the game.
I seriously doubt you'd ever be a KKK member nor neo-Nazi.

You are dead wrong. Multiculturalism will not make the US stronger but will inevitably result in balkanization, mainly because the American majority doesn't want multiculturalism and certainly didn't vote for it.

Theodore Roosevelt said it pretty well:

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

 

[CoffeeSaint]

You are dead wrong. Multiculturalism will not make the US stronger but will inevitably result in balkanization, mainly because the American majority doesn't want multiculturalism and certainly didn't vote for it.

Actually, the American people do want multiculturalism, and are voting for it, albeit slowly. Whether or not the majority feels intimidated by immigration or not, America is not a dictatorship of the majority -- at least, it isn't intended to be. I find it hard to believe that anything can be predicted with assurance, or that anything can rationally be called inevitable, but I'd like to hear your arguments as to how multiculturalism in the US will lead to balkanization -- isn't that the idea that individual, insular cultures will dominate certain areas and go to war with each other?

Theodore Roosevelt said it pretty well:

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

This is about politics, not culture; he refers to the red flag, by which I assume he means the Communist flag. One can be an American, and still value one's original culture; America is a land of hyphens, and so it should remain. Knowing that I'm of Western European descent doesn't inhibit me in any way in being loyal to America; why would you assume that immigrants feel any differently?

By the way, in reference to earlier discussions on the thread, I believe California reached the white-minority point a few years ago, though the statistic only means that Caucasians make up less than 50% of the total population; they are still the largest single ethnic group, and that may be what the NJ 2012 prediction was about. And Oregon does indeed force full-service on people at gas stations; I think the rationale is mostly to do with the number of jobs available for gas monkeys (Oregon has a vicious unemployment rate overall; something on the order of 8-12%, depending on locale), and safety issues such as idiots driving off with the pump handle still in the tank. As a non-idiot myself, I would greatly prefer the option of pumping my own gas, but so be it.

 

[Rogue]

Actually, the American people do want multiculturalism, and are voting for it, albeit slowly. Whether or not the majority feels intimidated by immigration or not, America is not a dictatorship of the majority -- at least, it isn't intended to be. I find it hard to believe that anything can be predicted with assurance, or that anything can rationally be called inevitable, but I'd like to hear your arguments as to how multiculturalism in the US will lead to balkanization -- isn't that the idea that individual, insular cultures will dominate certain areas and go to war with each other?

The American people are not voting for multiculturalism. They are just not voting against it. Is that what you mean? If the American public really knew what the polititians of both parties were doing to America they would give them the boot.

What would you call the Maywood situation. Seemed like balkanization to me.
Things will get a lot worse before they get better.

This is about politics, not culture; he refers to the red flag, by which I assume he means the Communist flag. One can be an American, and still value one's original culture; America is a land of hyphens, and so it should remain. Knowing that I'm of Western European descent doesn't inhibit me in any way in being loyal to America; why would you assume that immigrants feel any differently?

Are you talking about legal immigrants or illegal aliens? It's hard to tell sometimes with a pro illegal.

Further comments on Roosevelt:

"Americanization" was a favorite theme of Roosevelt's during his later years, when he railed repeatedly against "hyphenated Americans" and the prospect of a nation "brought to ruins" by a "tangle of squabbling nationalities."

He advocated the compulsory learning of English by every naturalized citizen. "Every immigrant who comes here should be required within five years to learn English or to leave the country," he said in a statement to the Kansas City Star in 1918. "English should be the only language taught or used in the public schools."

He also insisted, on more than one occasion, that America has no room for what he called "fifty-fifty allegiance." In a speech made in 1917 he said, "It is our boast that we admit the immigrant to full fellowship and equality with the native-born. In return we demand that he shall share our undivided allegiance to the one flag which floats over all of us."

 

[CoffeeSaint]

The American people are not voting for multiculturalism. They are just not voting against it. Is that what you mean? If the American public really knew what the polititians of both parties were doing to America they would give them the boot.

We should probably get more specific about what we mean by "voting for multiculturalism" if we want to continue this end of the debate. I'd say that our politicians represent more racial and ethnic groups today than they did in the past, and popular culture from other nations is becoming more popular every day, as shown by the increasing prevalence and success of foreign films, of world music, and of different styles of cuisine. Did you mean something different?

What would you call the Maywood situation. Seemed like balkanization to me.
Things will get a lot worse before they get better.

I'd call it backlash against a particularly distasteful brand of anti-immigrant sentiment; the "Save Our State" campaign is nasty, and I am not at all surprised that people got nasty right back. Specifically, the rally was fine; when it turned violent, it was wrong. They should not have taken down the American flag and flown the Mexican flag, but only because it was government property, not because the sentiment was particularly bad.

If we accepted the presence and influence of Mexican culture, there wouldn't be an issue; in other words, if the US is going to balkanize, it won't be the fault of the immigrants. We've managed to get along for generations with pockets of immigrant culture that are almost totally separate from American culture; it is only the intolerance of Mexican-American culture in the border states that causes all of the problems.

Are you talking about legal immigrants or illegal aliens? It's hard to tell sometimes with a pro illegal.

There's a difference? People from another country, with another culture, move here. That's what I'm talking about. The distinction, if any, should be between people who adopt this nation as their own, and people who move here temporarily in order to earn money; I wouldn't term the latter group "immigrants." Is that what you are referring to as aliens?

Further comments on Roosevelt:

"Americanization" was a favorite theme of Roosevelt's during his later years, when he railed repeatedly against "hyphenated Americans" and the prospect of a nation "brought to ruins" by a "tangle of squabbling nationalities."

Then he was wrong, too. And the fact that he made these statements, what, 100 years ago? and the nation has not yet fallen apart should indicate just how wrong he was.

He advocated the compulsory learning of English by every naturalized citizen. "Every immigrant who comes here should be required within five years to learn English or to leave the country," he said in a statement to the Kansas City Star in 1918. "English should be the only language taught or used in the public schools."

The ideal of everyone learning English is fine, but the fact is that bilingual education is simply more effective. Our schools should focus on what works, not what is politically correct. A second fact is that it takes longer than 5 years to become fluent in English, though a working knowledge and the ability to communicate should come much sooner, and that should be compulsory, within reason. I don't think we should unilaterally deport people who, say, fail an English test, since that would mean deporting a very large number of native-born Americans.

He also insisted, on more than one occasion, that America has no room for what he called "fifty-fifty allegiance." In a speech made in 1917 he said, "It is our boast that we admit the immigrant to full fellowship and equality with the native-born. In return we demand that he shall share our undivided allegiance to the one flag which floats over all of us."

And again, one can have allegiance to this nation as a political entity, and still feel connected to one's culture. The flying of a Mexican flag by a Mexican-American citizen implies a love of the Mexican culture, not a preference for the nation of Mexico over the nation of the United States. Of course, since in this country we have the freedom of speech, there really isn't much to say about people flying whatever flag they want. When the nation starts collapsing, I'll accept Teddy's ideas as true. Until then, he just strikes me as a xenophobe, and I don't think our nation's policies should be determined by paranoia.

 

[jfuh]

You are dead wrong. Multiculturalism will not make the US stronger but will inevitably result in balkanization, mainly because the American majority doesn't want multiculturalism and certainly didn't vote for it.

SO you're claim is that the American majority doesn't want multiculturalism? If is does not then we have a big problem now. Why? Because what is the single ethnic culture in America today? Where are your ancestors from?
There is no single ethinic majority culture in the US. Even with a white majority, these whites still originate from all over Europe.
It is the very essence of multiculturalism with shared goals of a free country that have made America the strongest nation in the world.
Or perhaps you are denying your immigration roots?

Theodore Roosevelt said it pretty well:

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

FUnny because with your "white majority traditional town" argument that bolded line won't fly.
Roosevelts statement is to the allegiance to the nation, to the citizenship of the US. There is nothing there stating he's against multiethnicity. You're argument seems to have run up against a brick wall.

 

[jfuh]

The ideal of everyone learning English is fine, but the fact is that bilingual education is simply more effective. Our schools should focus on what works, not what is politically correct.

This I disagree with. Because then which other languages need the schools be "equipped" to handle? Japanese? Ukranian? Italian? If a class were made of hispanic, Japanese, Italian, French, then would the instructor/s be teaching in more then one language simultaneously? It's completely impractical and a total waste of money. Schooling must only be accomplished with the nations majority language. That being English. If the child can not hack it, too bad. You're in school to learn, and refusing that learning expereince is against the very premise of an education. Will it be difficult for the kid? Yes absolutely, but you will be doing the child a dis-service by not teaching h/er English.

 

[Loki]

I don't see if these instances qualify as "day workers" or "outsourcing" as 1. Dayworkers would not have the fields taken up, and out sourcing would not create foreign language speaking neighborhoods.
This is simply the sound of multiculturism. It's change, and it may make it seem a bit uneasy from some ppl not used to it. However this is also what makes the US the strongest nation in the world. A plethora of ideas from a variety of cultures. Times change, information is speeding up, the day when speaking only English to get ahead in the business world is nearing a close.
So get out, and learn a new language or culture, find new expereinces. Stay ahead of the game.
I seriously doubt you'd ever be a KKK member nor neo-Nazi.

I think of multi-culturism as an excuse for the wealthy of our country to get near slave labor without having to go through the excuse of even pretenting to assimilate. I'm aware that most of these illiterate immigrants come from failed cultures. They, frequently, are not fans of western culture. Assimilation is often not part of the game plan. I don't like your vision of the future of america.

 

[Loki]

This is SO true.

Personally, I don't give a rats *** that illegals are working and living here, as long as they don't bring a large amount of criminal activity, in which the CMPD crime statistics have shown that Latino gang membership is largely LEGAL immigrants. The only reason why so many illegals are moving to this area, I believe, is because our area is growing so quickly, thus the need for more construction projects, which we all know mexicans can do (im not being racist! just watch Carlos Mencia!).

Don't look now but not all of the folks coming across the border are nice people. Crime has come with them. If I'm not mistaken weren't most of the 9/11 hijackers illegal aliens as well? Of course, with the mexican immigrants expect to see gangs, and drugs, initially. The fun stuff comes later.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_1_the_illegal_alien.html

 

[Caine]

Don't look now but not all of the folks coming across the border are nice people. Crime has come with them. If I'm not mistaken weren't most of the 9/11 hijackers illegal aliens as well? Of course, with the mexican immigrants expect to see gangs, and drugs, initially. The fun stuff comes later.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_1_the_illegal_alien.html

If you didn't notice I was talking about locally, here in Charlotte.

I happen to be a police officer here, and most of the time that I have to deal with illegals, they work in the construction industry somewhere and get drunk at thier homes and mind thier own damned business.

Not to say that there are not any illegals that are criminals in the city, which I am certain you will come to that conclusion. But largely, in fact they are just working here to put thier families back home in a better place financially, some of them even have thier families with them.

 

[Loki]

If you didn't notice I was talking about locally, here in Charlotte.

I happen to be a police officer here, and most of the time that I have to deal with illegals, they work in the construction industry somewhere and get drunk at thier homes and mind thier own damned business.

Not to say that there are not any illegals that are criminals in the city, which I am certain you will come to that conclusion. But largely, in fact they are just working here to put thier families back home in a better place financially, some of them even have thier families with them.

Congratulations, charlotte is the only city in the country with an illegal immigrant population that does not contain criminals. :mrgreen:

http://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/immigrants_jail.html

 

[jfuh]

I think of multi-culturism as an excuse for the wealthy of our country to get near slave labor without having to go through the excuse of even pretenting to assimilate. I'm aware that most of these illiterate immigrants come from failed cultures. They, frequently, are not fans of western culture. Assimilation is often not part of the game plan. I don't like your vision of the future of america.

If you said you looked on illegal immigration as an excuse for the wealthy to get slave labor, I've no argument there. But you claimed that multi-culturalism does so. Perhaps you can elaborate on that?
Also you speak of illiteracy, illiteracy in any language or English?
You don't have to "like" my vision, but you'll need to accept reality.

 

[CoffeeSaint]

This I disagree with. Because then which other languages need the schools be "equipped" to handle? Japanese? Ukranian? Italian? If a class were made of hispanic, Japanese, Italian, French, then would the instructor/s be teaching in more then one language simultaneously? It's completely impractical and a total waste of money. Schooling must only be accomplished with the nations majority language. That being English. If the child can not hack it, too bad. You're in school to learn, and refusing that learning expereince is against the very premise of an education. Will it be difficult for the kid? Yes absolutely, but you will be doing the child a dis-service by not teaching h/er English.

Ideally? Yes, the school should be equipped to handle any and all languages, and if we had foreign language as a graduation requirement in public schools, we actually might be able to reach that ideal someday. But practically speaking, schools should try to be as multilingual as their student population calls for, and their budget allows.
Immersion English instruction is not the most effective way to learn English, and it is a terrible way to learn other academic subjects. The most effective way to learn English is to study academic English, while hearing and speaking social English, and learning other subjects in one's native language. If a child who speaks no English is put into an English-only classroom, the child will learn nothing of the actual subject matter, math or science or history. They will learn some English, but not as much, and they will fall behind in all other subjects.
Bilingual education should be the key -- subject matter instruction starting in the native language and then transitioning to English, while studying the English language itself -- not instruction solely in the native language. Sorry if I was unclear on that.

 

[Loki]

If you said you looked on illegal immigration as an excuse for the wealthy to get slave labor, I've no argument there. But you claimed that multi-culturalism does so. Perhaps you can elaborate on that?
Also you speak of illiteracy, illiteracy in any language or English?
You don't have to "like" my vision, but you'll need to accept reality.

My remarks refer to illegal immigration. Unfortunately, until we are able to control one we cannot reach a consensus on the latter. In regards to literacy, I probably should have used the term unskilled. We are in a unique position to take the best and brightest from all of the worlds cultures. Instead we take the least skilled, the least able to assimilate into our country. Not smart.

As to your reality. Why should I have to accept it. I have a vote, I have an opinion. For once, I'm not a minority opinion at that. At some point our political parties will have to come to terms with majority public opinion.

 

[Caine]

Congratulations, charlotte is the only city in the country with an illegal immigrant population that does not contain criminals. :mrgreen:

http://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/immigrants_jail.html

Do you not know how to read? Are you that dense???

Let me RE-QUOTE MYSELF!!

Not to say that there are not any illegals that are criminals in the city, which I am certain you will come to that conclusion.

When I said I was certain you could come to that conclusion, I was saying that Im sure you would ignore my statements and claim I believe there were no criminal illegals anyways....

Imagine that... not only did I state that I didn't believe that there were no criminal illegals in my city, but I predicted that you would make that ignorant assumption.

It seems I have you figured out to a T. (or a dee dee dee) :roll: