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Whiners!!!

gordontravels

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MSNBC reports this morning that 52% of people polled think President Bush is doing a poor job with Katrina. MSNBC has done all they can to make the effort look as bad as possible so considering 46% are cited as thinking he is doing a good job, I suppose if you get outside MSNBC's sphere of influence you might find higher numbers for the President.

I have seen those wondering why people aren't donating as they did after 9/11 and trying to blame President Bush for this also but I think it is the negativity of the media that stops many from donating. Many people are angered by the media's portrayal of our government being uncaring or inept. People are smart enough to know that the local and state governments were in charge both before and after the disaster and performed badly while not even following their own disaster plans.

If MSNBC or those of one political party or the other are so negative in their attitudes and reporting wouldn't that possibly affect many people who then turn on even the victims themselves? There are those here that say the poor couldn't afford to evacuate but there were buses to be used and the Mayor did nothing. The Governor didn't do her job. The Lieutenant Governor, Senator Landrieu's brother didn't do his job. Probably hundreds of officials didn't do their jobs OR, was it the sheer magnitude of this disaster that overwhelmed. FEMA was slow even though this was a disaster like none other except maybe Pearl Harbor. Of course, our nation came together after Pearl Harbor. We should be doing this now.

If the media had been as negative after 9/11 as they are being now then the donations for 9/11 wouldn't have been what they were. We are now hearing that not nearly as many people died in New Orleans although the media reported it could be as high as 100,000; a number pulled out of their hat. Nice big number to get a nice big audience for their bashing. Still I noticed their bashing was limited to certain targets as usual.

Republicans and Democrats at our level should realize that when any disaster strikes our nation we all should step up and help even if all you can afford is prayers. We need to be a nation, not party hacks. We have enough of those leading the Republicans and Democrats and living in the media.
:duel :cool:
 

Binary_Digit

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This ABC poll says 55% of Americans do not blame Bush for the response to Katrina. But 47% disapprove of his handling of the crisis. 67% believe the federal government was inadequately prepared, and 75% feel the same about the state/local governments.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/HurricaneKatrina/story?id=1094262&page=1

But I think it's a lost cause trying to lay blame just yet. There are rumors and conflicting facts that need to be sorted out, such as whether or not governer Blanco delayed her decision for 24 hours. And the polls will change based on what they determine actually happened.
 
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MiamiFlorida

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gordontravels said:
MSNBC reports this morning that 52% of people polled think President Bush is doing a poor job with Katrina. MSNBC has done all they can to make the effort look as bad as possible so considering 46% are cited as thinking he is doing a good job, I suppose if you get outside MSNBC's sphere of influence you might find higher numbers for the President.

I have seen those wondering why people aren't donating as they did after 9/11 and trying to blame President Bush for this also but I think it is the negativity of the media that stops many from donating. Many people are angered by the media's portrayal of our government being uncaring or inept. People are smart enough to know that the local and state governments were in charge both before and after the disaster and performed badly while not even following their own disaster plans.

If MSNBC or those of one political party or the other are so negative in their attitudes and reporting wouldn't that possibly affect many people who then turn on even the victims themselves? There are those here that say the poor couldn't afford to evacuate but there were buses to be used and the Mayor did nothing. The Governor didn't do her job. The Lieutenant Governor, Senator Landrieu's brother didn't do his job. Probably hundreds of officials didn't do their jobs OR, was it the sheer magnitude of this disaster that overwhelmed. FEMA was slow even though this was a disaster like none other except maybe Pearl Harbor. Of course, our nation came together after Pearl Harbor. We should be doing this now.

If the media had been as negative after 9/11 as they are being now then the donations for 9/11 wouldn't have been what they were. We are now hearing that not nearly as many people died in New Orleans although the media reported it could be as high as 100,000; a number pulled out of their hat. Nice big number to get a nice big audience for their bashing. Still I noticed their bashing was limited to certain targets as usual.

Republicans and Democrats at our level should realize that when any disaster strikes our nation we all should step up and help even if all you can afford is prayers. We need to be a nation, not party hacks. We have enough of those leading the Republicans and Democrats and living in the media.
:duel :cool:
The media brings nothing new to the table except the same old, biased opinions. All their polls were wrong during the presidential race...and manipulated, to be sure.
 

Simon W. Moon

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I think some folks give "The Media" too much credit re their effect. I also notice that often it seems that folks forget that media is plural. "The Media" are not some monlithic force- rather a multitude of competing entities. The implications of some vast conspiracy on the part of "The Media" seem to be myths cooked up by political ops to provide a semblance of substance to their hand-waving dismissals of inconvenient facts.

MiamiFlorida said:
The media brings nothing new to the table except the same old, biased opinions. All their polls were wrong during the presidential race...and manipulated, to be sure.
Yet, I notice that you cited exit polls as evidence that the elections in Venezuela were tainted.
 

gordontravels

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Simon W. Moon said:
I think some folks give "The Media" too much credit re their effect. I also notice that often it seems that folks forget that media is plural. "The Media" are not some monlithic force- rather a multitude of competing entities. The implications of some vast conspiracy on the part of "The Media" seem to be myths cooked up by political ops to provide a semblance of substance to their hand-waving dismissals of inconvenient facts.

Yet, I notice that you cited exit polls as evidence that the elections in Venezuela were tainted.
I'm surely not here to discuss personal comments from other threads or what might have happened in Venezuela.

Many in this forum won't watch FNC for example because they perceive a conservative bias so they watch outlets with liberal bias. There is no middle of the road media outlet to play between liberal or conservative. All outlets like to put up talking heads and let them talk over each other; conflict sells? Talking about the positive always comes well after the scandal if there is time between commercials. American Media = deplorable.

The point of this thread is how absolutely inadequate Republicans and Democrats are along with the media outlets that seem to support one or the other. Partisanship is the name of the game; the blame game for partisan opportunity and it is being played out by professionals.

The blame is more important than anything positive. Trumpet the numbers of possible dead but when the number appears to be lower, talk about something else because lower numbers of dead might take away from that wonderful bashing position. Deplorable.

Those there or here that want to blame the Big R Party or the Big D Party are a waste of reading. No one knew this disaster would be what it was even with models and warnings. The blame will fall on those who didn't do their jobs, not who didn't do them right or quickly enough. Some will be shown to have ignored their own rules and procedures and those should shoulder the blame and apologize. No one's going to jail here. It's just a matter of who did what or who didn't.

Those who did or didn't are all Republicans and Democrats and I think all you Republicans and Democrats know it. Want to blame the President? Don't forget the others.
:duel :cool:
 

MiamiFlorida

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Simon W. Moon said:
I think some folks give "The Media" too much credit re their effect. I also notice that often it seems that folks forget that media is plural. "The Media" are not some monlithic force- rather a multitude of competing entities. The implications of some vast conspiracy on the part of "The Media" seem to be myths cooked up by political ops to provide a semblance of substance to their hand-waving dismissals of inconvenient facts.


Yet, I notice that you cited exit polls as evidence that the elections in Venezuela were tainted.
Was there a better alternative?

Oh....sorry...I forgot: Jimmy Carter!
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by gordontravels:
We need to be a nation, not party hacks. We have enough of those leading the Republicans and Democrats and living in the media.
Now this I agree with.
 

scottyz

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gordontravels said:

We are now hearing that not nearly as many people died in New Orleans although the media reported it could be as high as 100,000; a number pulled out of their hat. Nice big number to get a nice big audience for their bashing. Still I noticed their bashing was limited to certain targets as usual.

Who reported it would be as high as 100,000? The highest figure i've heard is 50,000.
 

gordontravels

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scottyz said:
Who reported it would be as high as 100,000? The highest figure i've heard is 50,000.
Since most of my news viewing during the day is MSNBC I would imagine that is the source. I also heard figures higher than 100,000 for the entire gulf coast but the 100,000 or more figure for New Orleans stood out and I remembered it. Again, it may not have been MSNBC but with the time I give to that network, I am 98% sure that's where I heard it. I also heard a number of lower figures as you did.

My point: The media first sensationalizes and then moderates or inflates as the reality sets in. Simple proof is 200 people dying in an airline crash and then it finally is 115. I see this a lot because the news has to report what they hear first.

The tradgedy of our media are the seemingly small things. MSNBC, when it appeared that the Administration was slow to respond, put up their little corner screen graphic: Day 5 Hour 9. This was connected to their Administration bashing to no end. Lately they still have the graphic but their bashing is definitely down as information on local, state and federal information comes out. In the first days you heard hardly anything about the Mayor or New Orleans or the Governor of the state. Now you either hear of their mistakes or you know your media outlet isn't telling you the whole story and you are only half informed. The media likes you that way you know.

Partisanship is just that and really should be withheld for debating issues rather than the sick, dememted use of politics before all the bodies are found. When blame is assessed it will be Republicans and Democrats that will be found guilty. Of course, if you watch CBS you may never know.
:duel :cool:
 

26 X World Champs

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MiamiFlorida said:
The media brings nothing new to the table except the same old, biased opinions. All their polls were wrong during the presidential race...and manipulated, to be sure.
To be sure? Really? Please tell me how you know this to be a fact? The polls pre-election were RIGHT. The election ended up within the margin of error that the pollsters cited so please explain how they were wrong AND manipulated. Facts please, not conjecture!
 

26 X World Champs

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gordontravels said:
I have seen those wondering why people aren't donating as they did after 9/11 and trying to blame President Bush for this also but I think it is the negativity of the media that stops many from donating. Many people are angered by the media's portrayal of our government being uncaring or inept. People are smart enough to know that the local and state governments were in charge both before and after the disaster and performed badly while not even following their own disaster plans...

If the media had been as negative after 9/11 as they are being now then the donations for 9/11 wouldn't have been what they were.
In no way are the two events the same other than there being national tragedies.

On 9-11 we were attacked by our enemy. The response of the Federal and local government was decent and there weren't any "refugees" like on the Gulf Coast.

Furthermore, had FEMA et al bungled post 9-11 operations like they have in New Orleans I'm sure the outcry would have been equal. The Fed bungled this one good, as did local and state officials and countless people are dead because of it. The same cannot be said about 9-11. In the post 9-11 aftermath thousands of people did not die due to FEMA fuc& ups.

Plus, the depth of despair and need from Katrina is much more severe. Hundreds of thousands of people are affected who have lost their homes and their jobs. If NYC had to be abandonded the needs would have been greatly multiplied as is what happened in New Orleans.
 

MiamiFlorida

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26 X World Champs said:
To be sure? Really? Please tell me how you know this to be a fact? The polls pre-election were RIGHT. The election ended up within the margin of error that the pollsters cited so please explain how they were wrong AND manipulated. Facts please, not conjecture!
You better read what I write before you jump to conclusions.

I was talking about media polls....not Gallup, Harris, etc....



Let's look at the people who conduct media polls:


http://secure.mediaresearch.org/news/MediaBiasBasics.html

Do you believe the folks at CNN...or Fox....or the NY Times can come up with accurate polls....?
 

scottyz

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MiamiFlorida said:
You better read what I write before you jump to conclusions.

I was talking about media polls....not Gallup, Harris, etc....



Let's look at the people who conduct media polls:


http://secure.mediaresearch.org/news/MediaBiasBasics.html

Do you believe the folks at CNN...or Fox....or the NY Times can come up with accurate polls....?
Do you believe the folks at MRC can up with accurate facts?
 

F41

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Binary_Digit said:
This ABC poll says 55% of Americans do not blame Bush for the response to Katrina. But 47% disapprove of his handling of the crisis.
Ironic how this is similar to the outcome of the re-election of President Bush...
 

Batman

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Everyone is quick to report how the majority of those polled blame Bush but tend to under report this:
However, the public also faults state and local governments, as well as the federal government, for the response to Katrina and its aftermath.
LINK
 

F41

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Pacridge said:
Not sure I really understand your meaning here.
I believe the outcome of the election was about 52% to 48% Bush leads.
The polls here are within a margin of error by 3, Bush favors this poll about the same as well.

I hope I explained this right...
 

gordontravels

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26 X World Champs said:
To be sure? Really? Please tell me how you know this to be a fact? The polls pre-election were RIGHT. The election ended up within the margin of error that the pollsters cited so please explain how they were wrong AND manipulated. Facts please, not conjecture!
It's true that some or most polls had it close, margin of error but, I would apply his words to the pundits the news media used. You get the Republican and Democrat on screen and of course they aren't going to say how badly they are going to lose and face it, losing is bad no matter the margin. The media surely manipulates or tries to according to your outlet. From National Public Radio to Fox News Channel or the Cartoon Channel, minds are shaped and it is calculated. Not to recognize that is really missing something. :duel :cool:
 

Billo_Really

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Originally Posted by gordontravels:
It's true that some or most polls had it close, margin of error but, I would apply his words to the pundits the news media used. You get the Republican and Democrat on screen and of course they aren't going to say how badly they are going to lose and face it, losing is bad no matter the margin. The media surely manipulates or tries to according to your outlet. From National Public Radio to Fox News Channel or the Cartoon Channel, minds are shaped and it is calculated. Not to recognize that is really missing something.
I thought Fox News was the Cartoon Channel!
 

Busta

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Hay, Batman.....about your Sig.: "There's peace, dignity, and euphoria in starvation.". If that's true, then why are so many people mad for being locked up in a stadium with out food or water? Even though it was wrong, shouldn't they be euphorically happy or benign?

I'm assuming that you are not just being a sarcastic wise-ass, like myself.
 

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26 X World Champs said:
To be sure? Really? Please tell me how you know this to be a fact? The polls pre-election were RIGHT. The election ended up within the margin of error that the pollsters cited so please explain how they were wrong AND manipulated. Facts please, not conjecture!
Wrong again as usual........Prior to the 2004 elections President Bush's approval ratings in the left wing media polls were in the mid forties.......The Liberal media was so gleeful and they kept saying that no president had never been re elected with and approval rating of below 50%......Well so much for their phony polls because as we all know the President was re elected by over a 51% margin and by over 3,000,000 votes and he also picked up seats in both houses of congress something that was unheard of prior to 2004.........
 
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MiamiFlorida

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scottyz said:
Do you believe the folks at MRC can up with accurate facts?
I don't believe anyone with a political agenda can come up with accurate facts.

Not MRC, not Fox, not CNN. I haven't said anything different.

The media often is guilty of misleading people with distortions, exaggerations, subjectivity, inaccuracy and even fabrications, in order to boost ratings, increase viewers/readers.
 

gordontravels

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26 X World Champs said:
In no way are the two events the same other than there being national tragedies.

On 9-11 we were attacked by our enemy. The response of the Federal and local government was decent and there weren't any "refugees" like on the Gulf Coast.

Furthermore, had FEMA et al bungled post 9-11 operations like they have in New Orleans I'm sure the outcry would have been equal. The Fed bungled this one good, as did local and state officials and countless people are dead because of it. The same cannot be said about 9-11. In the post 9-11 aftermath thousands of people did not die due to FEMA fuc& ups.

Plus, the depth of despair and need from Katrina is much more severe. Hundreds of thousands of people are affected who have lost their homes and their jobs. If NYC had to be abandonded the needs would have been greatly multiplied as is what happened in New Orleans.
I have no problem agreeing that the two events weren't the same but then when people donate to a cause of disaster that is usually the same. There is much talk about how much it is costing our federal government, over 50 billion that I last heard but I wonder why the relief agencies aren't counted when it comes to the overall relief such as was the case after 9/11.

I have been hearing reports, reports I must at least say to you that have not come from the Fox News Channel, but rather from outlets such as the New York Times and MSNBC that are now saying FEMA indeed made moves as it would after a natural disaster. Some of that was held up because of weather conditions as well as road and communications prolblems. Was FEMA perfect? Not by a long shot but then this is the worst natural disaster this country has ever seen.

So yes, FEMA could have done better but once the dust settles it is going to settle on local, state and federal governments. The deaths from this story are not going to be close to what the Mayor of New Orleans said which was in the range of 10,000. This morning it is reported that the 24 people that had died in the Convention Center can't be found. There is yet to be any confirmation that the 10 people reported to have died in the Superdome actually did.

Please consider the fact that Louisiana and New Orleans spent 2 years and nearly 15 million dollars writing their Emergency Preparedness Plan. That plan didn't even address evacuation of residents that were too poor or for whatever reason didn't have their own transportation or were elderly or otherwise infirm. The plan did say city and school buses would be used but it was never addressed as to how.

The second thing that we have heard of is the looters and shootings while general lawlessness prevailed immediately during and after the storm. The Emergency Preparedness Plan didn't address law enforcement issues at all. Maybe the dead that were reported as murdered won't be there but still, how can you have an emergency plan without addressing the role of law enforcement? Law enforcement without a plan and not transporting those who needed it while public transportation was left to the flood?

The one thing you will find when the "dust" settles is that Democrats and Republicans; Mayor, Governor, local government, state representatives and those representatives from Louisiana at the national level along with the federal government will all shoulder blame. There will be lots of denial but lets not you and I participate in that. Lets be reasonable, skeptical and fair in our assessment unlike our media and politicians. Democrats and Republicans and the media. They're the ones to profit from what words are said, not you and me.
:duel :cool:
 

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Simon wrote; "I think some folks give "The Media" too much credit re their effect."

That is exactly what I would say if I were the media and I was tryign to defend my bias-I would attempt to minimize my own abilities.

Sort of like the FeminoFascists claiming people give them too much credit.
 
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