Which party do the poor support?

[Slartibartfast]

Do you have to whine about it every day like youre in a gulag or something? Oh wait they didnt whine in the gulags...

Its amazing what greed can do to a person

 

[TurtleDude]

You dont ****in stop, dude, its approaching psychological issue...

that's rich coming from someone who spends as much time as you do advocating that the government confiscate more wealth of people who are more industrious and productive than you are

 

[TurtleDude]

Its amazing what greed can do to a person

the greed I see on this forum are the liberals who demand that others be taxed more to pay for the irresponsible spending of a government that really doesn't benefit the rich much at all

I have yet to see one tax hike advocate admit they are willing to have their marginal tax rate at 40%

 

[Slartibartfast]

the greed I see on this forum are the liberals who demand that others be taxed more to pay for the irresponsible spending of a government that really doesn't benefit the rich much at all

I have yet to see one tax hike advocate admit they are willing to have their marginal tax rate at 40%

Nope. Greed is the self centered desire for more wealth above all else. It is impossible to be greedy for someone else's benefit.

Greed - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Lets not redefine words.

 

[TurtleDude]

Nope. Greed is the self centered desire for more wealth above all else. It is impossible to be greedy for someone else's benefit.

Greed - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Lets not redefine words.

that is complete BS--If I take your money and give it to someone else I may not directly benefit from the money but if the recipients vote me into office or adore me or go around saying great things about me and increase my power or standing in the community then I have benefited from taking money from someone and giving it to others.

and that my left wing friend is GREED and that is EXACTLY what the dem elites do. They curry the favor and votes of the "needy" by giving them the money of others

 

[TurtleDude]

another definition of greed is demanding that someone else solve problems for you. demanding that the rich alone suffer tax hikes to pare down the deficit is a form of greed as well. wanting to keep what you earn and only pay the same share as others is hardly greedy unless and until you can prove that the rich actually benefit thousands of times more from the services income taxes and death confiscation taxes fund. Real greed is demanding others pay so much so you can have the government services you want while not paying your fair share

 

[Deuce]

that's rich coming from someone who spends as much time as you do advocating that the government confiscate more wealth of people who are more industrious and productive than you are

A divorce lawyer makes more money than I do, but is he more productive and industrious than I am?

 

[MKULTRABOY]

the greed I see on this forum are the liberals who demand that others be taxed more to pay for the irresponsible spending of a government that really doesn't benefit the rich much at all

I have yet to see one tax hike advocate admit they are willing to have their marginal tax rate at 40%

Shhh shh shh... optimal tax revenues for a government are about 60+% of the nations income. Were getting there, you just relax

 

[Barbbtx]

The empirical evidence says you're wrong -- take the EU as an example. Social-democrat governments across Europe help the poor, and the percentage of people living in abject poverty, as well as the percentage of people unemployed, and the crime rates, are all significantly lower than in the US. Furthermore, the poorest poor man in, say, France, lives like a king compared to the poorest poor man in the US -- the conditions of the extremely poor in the US are some of the worst in the world.

Really? Not saying you are wrong, but where are these extremely poor in the US and why aren't we taking care of them? If we can pay people unemployment for 2 yrs, you'd think we could take of the extremely poor.

The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.) Understanding Poverty in America | The Heritage Foundation

 

[Barbbtx]

Urban poor tend to support Dems. Rural poor tend to support GOP. Rural poor don't seem to understand that the people they vote into office are there to promote the interests of huge, multinational corporations, instead of the well-being or integrity of the country.

Maybe rural people are raised with totally different values.
Maybe, just maybe they aren't the takers that those in urban areas are. Some people will do anything to keep from taking handouts. They believe in individual responsibilty.
Urban dwellers think they are entitled to other people's money.

Do I know this to be true? No, and it's likely not true.
Do you know it to be true that rural people are too stupid when it comes to who they should vote for? :roll:

 

[Barbbtx]

You're not 'writing in Swahili', I understand what you're saying. I was simply referring to your comment about loving freedom -- I wanted to debase your myth that socialism somehow impedes freedom, when it's clearly the opposite.

Now, on to your second point, about income redistribution. I think the flaw in logic you've made here is believing that your tax dollars are somehow used to benefit other people. It's not so -- you pay taxes for services the state gives to you. YOUR taxes go to maintaining YOUR roads -- you couldn't maintain them yourself, could you? YOUR taxes go to YOUR healthcare -- you're not a doctor, you can't operate on yourself, could you? YOUR taxes go to YOUR education (or your children's), and while I suppose you could educate them yourself, it'd certainly not be the wide range of educational subjects they could get from several payed teachers and professors over a wide variety of subjects.

So, you're not giving taxes to the government to go pull that heroin addict out of the gutter and give him a flat and a car and a lovely life. You're paying for your own stuff, just indirectly -- because you couldn't do it yourself.

Government has no business in health care or education in a free market society. Unfortunately, they are in both and we are stuck with it. However, we don't need to expand either.
Perhaps we can walk back what the dems have done the last two yrs, but that will probably be the best we can do.

 

[winston53660]

Government has no business in health care or education in a free market society.

I for one am glad that government at least makes an attempt to insure that the 7 different drugs I take twice a day are reasonably safe and effective for my condition. I am also glad they hold the manufacture of my defibrillator to certain standards. I am also thankful for the NIH and there support of research.

 

[Barbbtx]

Its amazing what greed can do to a person

Greed is taking something you didn't earn from someone who did. Oh, never mind, that's theft.
Turtle has said he gives to charities. A greedy person wouldn't do that.

 

[Slartibartfast]

that is complete BS--If I take your money and give it to someone else I may not directly benefit from the money but if the recipients vote me into office or adore me or go around saying great things about me and increase my power or standing in the community then I have benefited from taking money from someone and giving it to others.

and that my left wing friend is GREED and that is EXACTLY what the dem elites do. They curry the favor and votes of the "needy" by giving them the money of others

Still wrong. Your (incorrect) assumption is that people do it because it gives them power, not out of compassion. I contend that your hatred has gotten the better of you and you automatically are thinking the worst of people. That hatred comes from greed and look at what it has done to you.

Its sad and pathetic to watch you keep griping as if you were somehow oppressed.

 

[Le Marteau]

[/B]Really? Not saying you are wrong, but where are these extremely poor in the US and why aren't we taking care of them? If we can pay people unemployment for 2 yrs, you'd think we could take of the extremely poor.

The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.) Understanding Poverty in America | The Heritage Foundation

Oh, yes, in terms of living space, you are fully correct -- that's factual. I'd note, however, that 'living space' and 'personal bubbles' aren't as important to the European psyche as they are to their American countreparts. For example -- Russia has massive amounts of livable land -- more than anywhere else, in fact. And yet, there's the phenomenon of Russians instead buying posh apartments, instead of big country homes. Why? Because of the sense of community. Most Russians have enough money to buy what would be considered a decent to large sized house outside of the cities, but most instead spend their money on nicer, but smaller apartments.

Anyway, you're absolutely right in terms of the living space bit -- but the poor in the US, while their apartments or trailers or houses may be larger than the average poor man's home in Europe, are much more prone to other problems. For example, the poor in the US are (for reasons I certainly can't explain, but there might be studies that explain it) much more likely to be unemployed, and much more likely to be criminal. They're also much more likely to abuse drugs, and they get less average food per year than their poor European countreparts. The American poor are also more likely to die of diseases like the flu, diabetes, terminal illnesses (cancer, AIDS, etc.) and epidemic diseases (like cholera, anthrax, Mad Cow, ecoli, hepatitis). The poor in the US tend to live in isolated high-crime "ghettoes", whereas, with the exception of megatropolises like London and Paris, the European poor tend to be intersparsed among middle class families. The US poor tend to drop out of school at an earlier age than their European countreparts, and as well, the US poor are overall more likely to drop out.

As for where the extremely poor are, that's divided between the rural poor, like in Appalachia, and the urban poor, in inner cities like Los Angeles and Baltimore. Why aren't they being helped? I would probably point to the political gridlock in Washington as a cause.

 

[MKULTRABOY]

Also many of those cities have medieval layouts and considerations of the price of land etc. Living space has little to do with anything. People live great in tokyo but live in boxes stacked on top of eachother practically.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

The American poor are also more likely to die of diseases like the flu, diabetes, terminal illnesses (cancer, AIDS, etc.) and epidemic diseases (like cholera, anthrax, Mad Cow, ecoli, hepatitis). The poor in the US tend to live in isolated high-crime "ghettoes"

What????? :lamo


We didn't have a break out of any of this. E-coli spreads through food distro, not economic class. flu affects all classes. I don't know about cancer and aids, but the rest is pure bunk


Most of the poor in this country, are rural. /facepalm

 

[TurtleDude]

A divorce lawyer makes more money than I do, but is he more productive and industrious than I am?

if he pays more taxes than you do, for the purpose of this argument the answer is clearly yes

 

[TurtleDude]

Still wrong. Your (incorrect) assumption is that people do it because it gives them power, not out of compassion. I contend that your hatred has gotten the better of you and you automatically are thinking the worst of people. That hatred comes from greed and look at what it has done to you.

Its sad and pathetic to watch you keep griping as if you were somehow oppressed.

its sad you trying to justify me having more of what I have earned taken so your dem masters can buy the votes of the weakminded Lib-Bots.

you need to start paying your fair share and stop demanding others make up for you being a slacker

 

[Slartibartfast]

its sad you trying to justify me having more of what I have earned taken so your dem masters can buy the votes of the weakminded Lib-Bots.

Incorrect assumption, I have no interest in buying votes.

you need to start paying your fair share and stop demanding others make up for you being a slacker

Incorrect assumption. I pay much more in taxes than I get back.

So basically, since you cannot argue any valid points, you have to create strawmen. Seriously do you have a real argument or is it ..

 

[TurtleDude]

Incorrect assumption, I have no interest in buying votes.



Incorrect assumption. I pay much more in taxes than I get back.

So basically, since you cannot argue any valid points, you have to create strawmen.

nope-America crawls with those who want others to pay for what those liberals use.

this nation is full of those who have been brainswashed into thinking that America has a duty to fund their existence

and if you don't make at least 117K a year, chances are you are a net tax consumer

 

[MKULTRABOY]

....edit........

 

[Slartibartfast]

nope-America crawls with those who want others to pay for what those liberals use.

this nation is full of those who have been brainswashed into thinking that America has a duty to fund their existence

and if you don't make at least 117K a year, chances are you are a net tax consumer

Ahh, of course, they don't agree with you, so they must have been brainwashed! People couldn't have come to these conclusions on their own, noooo they need liberal masters! This gets more and more funny :lol:

Seriously, lets debate an actual point instead of creating stereotype after stereotype to avoid sense and reason.

We have been over this, over multiple threads. You have yet to provide proof that the only reason Democrat politicians help the poor is to build little empires. If you ever are able to provide proof, we can move this argument forward. Until than, I will continue to laugh at you.

 

[TurtleDude]

Ahh, of course, they don't agree with you, so they must have been brainwashed! People couldn't have come to these conclusions on their own, noooo they need liberal masters! This gets more and more funny :lol:

Seriously, lets debate an actual point instead of creating stereotype after stereotype to avoid sense and reason.

We have been over this, over multiple threads. You have yet to provide proof that the only reason Democrat politicians help the poor is to build little empires. If you ever are able to provide proof, we can move this argument forward. Until than, I will continue to laugh at you.

I don't cost you any money

I don't advocate making others pay my share

 

[MKULTRABOY]

Okay turtle... how much money do you make and how much is taxed.
Just tell us.
I may start sympathizing here.