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Which of these scandals is/are phony?

Vote for the ones you think are fake/phony scandals


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Josie

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The Obama administration has been saying that the so-called scandals are "phony".

Which of these do you think phony?

- IRS targeting conservatives
- Benghazi
- Fast and Furious
- NSA spying
- None of the above

Poll is coming....
 

Josie

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Come to this poll - not the other one! :)
 

Fisher

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Come to this poll - not the other one! :)
You can't tell me what to do. You're not my momma!!!! :monkey

I voted NSA spying. I strongly suspect that it is not nearly as invasive as people fear.
 

Josie

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Please vote here and not the other one! :)
 

Boo Radley

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The Obama administration has been saying that the so-called scandals are "phony".

Which of these do you think phony?

- IRS targeting conservatives
- Benghazi
- Fast and Furious
- NSA spying
- None of the above

Poll is coming....
I wouldn't use phony. Overhyped by conservatives? Most of them. They are concerns, but not the nightmare many conservatives see them as.
 

Gonzo Rodeo

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I wouldn't use phony. Overhyped by conservatives? Most of them. They are concerns, but not the nightmare many conservatives see them as.
What is the difference between a nightmare and a scandal? I somewhat agree with you, that the hype can be considered over-hype, yet I still have concerns (most especially concerning the NSA).
 

Boo Radley

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What is the difference between a nightmare and a scandal? I somewhat agree with you, that the hype can be considered over-hype, yet I still have concerns (most especially concerning the NSA).
I have concerns as well, and disagree with things like NSA. I just wish they were discussed without the hype. Sound like we may have some agreement here.
 

Gonzo Rodeo

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I have concerns as well, and disagree with things like NSA. I just wish they were discussed without the hype. Sound like we may have some agreement here.
I think my biggest problem with politics and political media in general is the slippery slope. The slippery slope is undeniably fallacious and poor debate.... except for when it isn't.
 

Boo Radley

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I think my biggest problem with politics and political media in general is the slippery slope. The slippery slope is undeniably fallacious and poor debate.... except for when it isn't.
There are ways to test a slippery slope. ;)
 

BmanMcfly

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The Obama administration has been saying that the so-called scandals are "phony".

Which of these do you think phony?

- IRS targeting conservatives
- Benghazi
- Fast and Furious
- NSA spying
- None of the above

Poll is coming....

I wouldn't use phony. Overhyped by conservatives? Most of them. They are concerns, but not the nightmare many conservatives see them as.
Not to target you, just you were the first to bring up this position...

But can you explain how;

-The IRS politically motivated targeting,
-Benghazi, and allowing people to be killed to cover for an arms shipment to Alquaida,
- fast and furious that gave guns to mexicans which wound up killing Americans to demonize te second ammendment, and
- NSA spying on everything you say electronically,

Are all overhyped??

About 15 or so years ago, the president was impeached for lying about a bj, so, how are not one of these even close to that extreme crime of recieving??

I'm not being facetious, I really want to understand here??

EDIT:: caveat; in your explanation, please refrain from the "they did it first so it's ok" type justifications. It was all just as wrong when bush did it, or Clinton, it's not ok because someone else got away with it...
 
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Boo Radley

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Not to target you, just you were the first to bring up this position...

But can you explain how;

-The IRS politically motivated targeting,
-Benghazi, and allowing people to be killed to cover for an arms shipment to Alquaida,
- fast and furious that gave guns to mexicans which wound up killing Americans to demonize te second ammendment, and
- NSA spying on everything you say electronically,

Are all overhyped??

About 15 or so years ago, the president was impeached for lying about a bj, so, how are not one of these even close to that extreme crime of recieving??

I'm not being facetious, I really want to understand here??

EDIT:: caveat; in your explanation, please refrain from the "they did it first so it's ok" type justifications. It was all just as wrong when bush did it, or Clinton, it's not ok because someone else got away with it...
Well, too your caveat, it does matter that some have been ongoing and largely ignored by conservatives until now. But, largely claims have been made not supported by evidence. The tendency had been to leap all the way to bat **** nutter instead of asking reasonable questions and talking about it based on factual information.
 

DiAnna

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I take issue with the word "phony". I prefer the term "exaggerated by political motivation." Those I have checked are, in my opinion, exaggerated by political motivation. :)
 

BmanMcfly

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Well, too your caveat, it does matter that some have been ongoing and largely ignored by conservatives until now. But, largely claims have been made not supported by evidence. The tendency had been to leap all the way to bat **** nutter instead of asking reasonable questions and talking about it based on factual information.
In a time where a whistleblower gets called a traitor, and finds himself in the bastion of freedom known as Russia for a safe haven...

With the track record of lying politicians, to the point of being cliche.

With the facts only really coming out after everyone has forgotten an moved on....

There comes a point where EVEN IF these are all given the best benefit of doubt; they each individually have crossed a line, and the culmination of all of them and people actually think this cage being built around them is in their best interest....

I understand the fast and furious during bush was called "operation gunrunner", that the IRS targets different groups differently.

http://nation.foxnews.com/benghazi/...al-qaeda-linked-group-defend-benghazi-mission

The Libyan militia group that the State Department hired to defend its embattled diplomatic mission in Benghazi had clear al-Qaida sympathies, and had prominently displayed the al-Qaida flag on a Facebook page for months before the deadly attack.

That organization, the February 17th Martyrs Brigade, was paid by the U.S. government to provide security at the U.S. diplomatic mission in Benghazi, Libya. But there is no indication the Martyrs Brigade fulfilled its commitment to defend the mission on Sept. 11, when it came under attack.
The "speculation" (as in testimony, but that's another issue), was that it was an arms deal "gone bad".

Ultimately, the point is that at this point more people should be more upset with what's going on then they seem to be displaying...

No joke here, it does not matter that these are ongoing programs, but the fact that Rather than maintaining the position when the last guy was doing it and tried to fight it, now these same people should maintain that fierce opposition to these PROGRAMS and forget the "parties", suddenly the country would be effectively united with the common purpose of ending the corruption before it destroys the country completely to a third world status.

Sorry for the rant, and take it personal, but don't since it's such a common argument, this could just as easily been to someone else.
 

Boo Radley

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In a time where a whistleblower gets called a traitor, and finds himself in the bastion of freedom known as Russia for a safe haven...

With the track record of lying politicians, to the point of being cliche.

With the facts only really coming out after everyone has forgotten an moved on....

There comes a point where EVEN IF these are all given the best benefit of doubt; they each individually have crossed a line, and the culmination of all of them and people actually think this cage being built around them is in their best interest....

I understand the fast and furious during bush was called "operation gunrunner", that the IRS targets different groups differently.

Newsmax: US Hired Al-Qaeda-Linked Group to Defend Benghazi Mission - Fox Nation



The "speculation" (as in testimony, but that's another issue), was that it was an arms deal "gone bad".

Ultimately, the point is that at this point more people should be more upset with what's going on then they seem to be displaying...

No joke here, it does not matter that these are ongoing programs, but the fact that Rather than maintaining the position when the last guy was doing it and tried to fight it, now these same people should maintain that fierce opposition to these PROGRAMS and forget the "parties", suddenly the country would be effectively united with the common purpose of ending the corruption before it destroys the country completely to a third world status.

Sorry for the rant, and take it personal, but don't since it's such a common argument, this could just as easily been to someone else.
We've had individual threads that dealt with each one, with the exaggerations spelled out. Not sure I want to tackle each one here.

I see two problems:

1) our leaders lie. And they lie so much it's largely accepted. So many of them lie, regardless of stripe, there's not even any replacement for these lying leaders.

2) each side so exaggerates the crimes of the other that we would not believe an honest, or relatively honet (there's a scale I think), if one bit us in the ass. Our climate, complete with 24 hour echo chambers of misinformation, so dominate the discourse that honest inquiriy is next to impossible. As we, meaning to damn many voters, feed on this vomit, we can't see any possible solutions to our problems.

So, concern is warranted for each of them. But not to the level the opposition often inflates them to.
 

BmanMcfly

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We've had individual threads that dealt with each one, with the exaggerations spelled out. Not sure I want to tackle each one here.

I see two problems:

1) our leaders lie. And they lie so much it's largely accepted. So many of them lie, regardless of stripe, there's not even any replacement for these lying leaders.

2) each side so exaggerates the crimes of the other that we would not believe an honest, or relatively honet (there's a scale I think), if one bit us in the ass. Our climate, complete with 24 hour echo chambers of misinformation, so dominate the discourse that honest inquiriy is next to impossible. As we, meaning to damn many voters, feed on this vomit, we can't see any possible solutions to our problems.

So, concern is warranted for each of them. But not to the level the opposition often inflates them to.
You forget that last years opposition is this years apologist.
 

Boo Radley

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You forget that last years opposition is this years apologist.
I don't forget that at all. I tried to state clearly "of all stripes." This isn't a republican thing or a conservative thing. It's our political environment today. And to a lesser degree, largely due to less mass communication, it's been part of our politics from very early on.
 

AngryOldGuy

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Of course they are all 'phony' I'm sure that's what most German's thought even as the American and British bombers reduced their cities to rubble.
 

cpwill

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You can't tell me what to do. You're not my momma!!!! :monkey

I voted NSA spying. I strongly suspect that it is not nearly as invasive as people fear.
It's not.


But I am rather surprised that folks think that the Benghazi cover-up isn't a scandal. We've seen multiple commanders who were part of the stand-up that night get relieved, reports of CIA agents being heavily leaned on and threatened, and a dead ambassador and other men on the ground. Phony scandals don't come home in body bags, nor do you need to fire people or apply pressure to keep them from being discussed.
 

Zyphlin

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I wouldn't use phony. Overhyped by conservatives? Most of them. They are concerns, but not the nightmare many conservatives see them as.
In a general sense I'd go with this.

None of them are Phony. Are are worthy of realistic scrutiny and are understandable that some people might find facts surrounding it troubling or questionable. Phony suggests everything surrounding the scandal is fraudulent and made up, and that's not the case.

Now are parts of the reporting on various ones potentially "phony" or is there potentially overhyping? Absolutely. This is generally the case with most "scandals" that hit, all that really changes is which side is the scandal accusations pointed towards and which side is doing the overhyping or potentially "phony" reporting.

Take for instance the big fluff and huff about what happened with Santorum's wife that came up during the primaries. That wasn't a "phony" controversy because it did happen and people could potentially forumlate questions or concerns based on it. However, a LOT of the things being talked about during it WERE phony, misleading, or greatly overhyped.
 

Boo Radley

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In a general sense I'd go with this.

None of them are Phony. Are are worthy of realistic scrutiny and are understandable that some people might find facts surrounding it troubling or questionable. Phony suggests everything surrounding the scandal is fraudulent and made up, and that's not the case.

Now are parts of the reporting on various ones potentially "phony" or is there potentially overhyping? Absolutely. This is generally the case with most "scandals" that hit, all that really changes is which side is the scandal accusations pointed towards and which side is doing the overhyping or potentially "phony" reporting.

Take for instance the big fluff and huff about what happened with Santorum's wife that came up during the primaries. That wasn't a "phony" controversy because it did happen and people could potentially forumlate questions or concerns based on it. However, a LOT of the things being talked about during it WERE phony, misleading, or greatly overhyped.
I agree.
 

AngryOldGuy

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I am rather surprised that folks think that the Benghazi cover-up isn't a scandal.
What I wonder about is just what will have to happen before the American people stand up and say:
alright now this is just getting downright silly, cut it the #*@! out!
 

BmanMcfly

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What I wonder about is just what will have to happen before the American people stand up and say:
alright now this is just getting downright silly, cut it the #*@! out!
They won't, America has become the land of the scared and home of the slave (to a nanny state).
 

AngryOldGuy

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You can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. - Ayn Rand.
Bman McFly you and I know this to be the case. The XBox generation will never get up off the couch and even if they did
it wouldn't make a bit of difference because they are all totally useless anyway. Also the ever dwindling number of middle-aged Conservatives
have too much to lose and won't admit that they are looking forward to either collecting or continuing to collect them social security checks
and all the other entitlement goodies that Santa has promised them so yeah I was just kiddin'
as you were
We don't need no water let the _ burn, burn baby burn!
 

Jango

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I voted 'none of the above'.

Benghazi: information keeps rolling out of this one. Four-hundred surface to air missiles were stolen, the C.I.A. was gunrunning (which means the Syrian 'red line' rhetoric was propaganda), survivors have been intimidated and Americans died without any type of rescue effort coming to their aid. More info will hopefully come out.

I.R.S. targeting: I'm not a partisan kind of person, so I wasn't mad at the fact that primarily conservatives were targeted, I was instead outraged that Americans were being unfairly harassed by a governmental agency because of their political beliefs.

N.S.A. spying on Americans: I have a major ****ing problem with this and anyone who says that it is a non-issue is a ****ing moron. I'm all for spying, you know, on our enemies (and so-called allies), but not every single American citizen that is using a phone and the Internet. It's unConstitutional. Yeah, yeah, "but the FISA court says," kind of like the last administration legalized torture and waterboarding. Simply put, you're a fool to support the government spying on you.

A.T.F. gunwalking: when I read the documents that were released, the whole operation just did not make *any* sense. Besides arming an enemy of the U.S. and our southern neighbor, this blown op lead to deaths of good people.
 
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