• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Which is Worse?

Exquisitor

Educator
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
6,437
Reaction score
894
Location
UP of Michigan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Which is worse?

Which is worse for the Republican Party Clinton or Trump?

Never mind who is worse for the Country.

Some of you may have already recognized my vendetta against Congressional Republicans for trying to ruin Obama at our cost just for their deluded political ambition, fear, weakness and racist programing.

So I want to know who is worse for (elected) Republicans so I can make my decision.

Please refrain from never Trump or never Clinton discussion; just the facts and clear understanding please.
 

joG

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
43,839
Reaction score
9,638
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
Which is worse?

Which is worse for the Republican Party Clinton or Trump?

Never mind who is worse for the Country.

Some of you may have already recognized my vendetta against Congressional Republicans for trying to ruin Obama at our cost just for their deluded political ambition, fear, weakness and racist programing.

So I want to know who is worse for (elected) Republicans so I can make my decision.

Please refrain from never Trump or never Clinton discussion; just the facts and clear understanding please.

Trump of course. Clinton sets the Democrats up for a Nixonesc debacle. Trump would prevent it. Cannot have that.
 

Jesse Booth

we live in a society
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
11,036
Reaction score
6,696
Location
https://www.debatepolitics.com
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
Trump would definitely hurt the Republicans in the short run, possibly even fracturing the party. Whatever comes after him will hopefully learn from the past, and be more... functional. Responsible. Opposed to pandering to fear and anger for quick, easy, and short-lived political gain. You pick your own descriptor.
 

TheGoverness

Little Miss Sunshine
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
35,043
Reaction score
37,630
Location
Houston Area, TX
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Trump would definitely hurt the Republicans in the short run, possibly even fracturing the party. Whatever comes after him will hopefully learn from the past, and be more... functional. Responsible. Opposed to pandering to fear and anger. You pick your own descriptor.
The GOP is already pretty broken.
 

Chomsky

Social Democrat
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
55,782
Reaction score
42,992
Location
Third Coast
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Which is worse?

Which is worse for the Republican Party Clinton or Trump?

Never mind who is worse for the Country.

Some of you may have already recognized my vendetta against Congressional Republicans for trying to ruin Obama at our cost just for their deluded political ambition, fear, weakness and racist programing.

So I want to know who is worse for (elected) Republicans so I can make my decision.

Please refrain from never Trump or never Clinton discussion; just the facts and clear understanding please.
I don't understand your question.

Clinton is 'bad' for the Republican Party?

How is that?
 

Exquisitor

Educator
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
6,437
Reaction score
894
Location
UP of Michigan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Clinton would put liberals on the Supreme Court and waste the delay of this SCOTUS appointment.

This would be good punishment.
 

Skeptic Bob

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
16,626
Reaction score
19,488
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
I think Trump would be worse for the Republican party. I say "think" because I haven't a clue what a President Trump will actually be like. Odds are he won't bear any resemblance to Candidate Trump. But if he is as bad as many of think he will be that will hurt the Republicans simply because Trump will be the leader of the party. And if Clinton is bad the Republicans can capitalize on that.
 

Fenton

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
29,771
Reaction score
12,231
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Which is worse?

Which is worse for the Republican Party Clinton or Trump?

Never mind who is worse for the Country.

Some of you may have already recognized my vendetta against Congressional Republicans for trying to ruin Obama at our cost just for their deluded political ambition, fear, weakness and racist programing.

So I want to know who is worse for (elected) Republicans so I can make my decision.

Please refrain from never Trump or never Clinton discussion; just the facts and clear understanding please.

Obama didn't need the GOP to ruin his legacy. He's quite capable of doing that all on his own.

But his influence and the influence of his disastrous policies and legislation doesn't stop at his legacy
He's been a godsend for the GOP over the last 8 years and especially in the last midterms

31 GOP Governorships, GOP takes the Senate back and adds seats in the House and best of all Texas is even REDDER.....:lamo

Liberalism, Progressivism, Leftism, Socialism, whatever you want to call has a self destruct mechanism built right into it

It doesn't actually do what it claims to do and eventually people wise up and vote to oppose it. Its staying power as a ideology is dependent on authoritarian initiatives that are met out through force, mandates and directives

For ex, take the lefts retarded and short sighted strategy for addressing so called wealth disparity

Tax the wealthy, tax corporations ( make them pay their fair share ) and forced redistribution.

The problem is the " eebil Rich " don't have to play along with their regressive and destructive initiatives to fix disparity and they DONT.

They move their Capital and save instead of spending it and or investing it in our economy where it can lead to job creation .

They and their wealth are mobile. When Frane's Socialist President Hollande raised taxes on the Rich to 75%, did it fix disparity ??

Nope. Foreign investment fell off the following year and Hollande had to cancel is solution to create " wealth equality ".
 

faithful_servant

DP Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2006
Messages
12,533
Reaction score
5,659
Location
Beautiful Central Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Which is worse?

Which is worse for the Republican Party Clinton or Trump?

Never mind who is worse for the Country.

Some of you may have already recognized my vendetta against Congressional Republicans for trying to ruin Obama at our cost just for their deluded political ambition, fear, weakness and racist programing.

So I want to know who is worse for (elected) Republicans so I can make my decision.

Please refrain from never Trump or never Clinton discussion; just the facts and clear understanding please.

The bolded line above puts you outside of the realm of "facts and clear understanding"...
 

Exquisitor

Educator
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
6,437
Reaction score
894
Location
UP of Michigan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Well, we can't give Trump the opportunity to please his party with Conservative SCOTUS appointments.

We don't want to reward the Republicans with a President even if in name only.

Even though they hurt America for their political ends we don't want to hurt ourselves too much punishing them so if elected we want Trump to be successful and have a second Term.

Just the presence of Hillary Clinton in the Oval Office should chagrin them plenty.

Thus I can remain consistent and keep pulling for Hillary.
 
Last edited:

Fenton

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
29,771
Reaction score
12,231
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Well, we can't give Trump the opportunity to please his party with Conservative SCOTUS appointments.

We don't want to reward the Republicans with a President even if in name only.

Even though they hurt America for their political ends we don't want to hurt ourselves too much punishing them and if elected we want Trump to be successful and have a second Term.

Just the presence of Hillary Clinton in the Oval Office should chagrin them plenty.

Thus I can remain consistent and keep pulling for Hillary.


:lamo :lamo :lamo

Oh the irony......

Obama administration's unemployment data is base propaganda
The Big Lie: 5.6% Unemployment
 

LowDown

Curmudgeon
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
14,185
Reaction score
8,767
Location
Houston
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Which is worse?

Which is worse for the Republican Party Clinton or Trump?

Never mind who is worse for the Country.

Some of you may have already recognized my vendetta against Congressional Republicans for trying to ruin Obama at our cost just for their deluded political ambition, fear, weakness and racist programing.

So I want to know who is worse for (elected) Republicans so I can make my decision.

Please refrain from never Trump or never Clinton discussion; just the facts and clear understanding please.

On could argue that Trump would be worse. Republicans will be blamed for anything he does. So when he crashes the economy with tariffs it will be the fault of the Republicans.

When Hillary abolishes the second amendment and free speech it will work to the advantage of Republicans. Of course, by the time the Republicans manage to regain power the country might already be dead or no longer a country worthy of the name "America".

With Hillary as President anything short of total disaster will be a win.

When she crashes the economy with excessive regulation and taxes she can be counted on to completely ignore the reality of what she's done and make no adjustments at all in her agenda. Reality doesn't enter in.

Of course, I'm not blind to the fact that most of what Hillary and Trump are promising they won't be able to do. No doubt things will turn out more or less OK regardless.

By the way, Republicans standing in the way of Obama's agenda has saved us a lot of trouble. Obstruction is a proper and legitimate function of the Congress, and Republicans would be derelict not to use that tool to stop an agenda that they regard as bad for the country. If that puts Obama in trouble then it's his fault for rigidly advancing a flawed agenda and refusing to compromise with the Congress.
 

Exquisitor

Educator
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
6,437
Reaction score
894
Location
UP of Michigan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
On could argue that Trump would be worse. Republicans will be blamed for anything he does. So when he crashes the economy with tariffs it will be the fault of the Republicans.

When Hillary abolishes the second amendment and free speech it will work to the advantage of Republicans. Of course, by the time the Republicans manage to regain power the country might already be dead or no longer a country worthy of the name "America".

With Hillary as President anything short of total disaster will be a win.

When she crashes the economy with excessive regulation and taxes she can be counted on to completely ignore the reality of what she's done and make no adjustments at all in her agenda. Reality doesn't enter in.

Of course, I'm not blind to the fact that most of what Hillary and Trump are promising they won't be able to do. No doubt things will turn out more or less OK regardless.

By the way, Republicans standing in the way of Obama's agenda has saved us a lot of trouble. Obstruction is a proper and legitimate function of the Congress, and Republicans would be derelict not to use that tool to stop an agenda that they regard as bad for the country. If that puts Obama in trouble then it's his fault for rigidly advancing a flawed agenda and refusing to compromise with the Congress.

I mostly agree with your post except that 2009-10 Republicans intentionally filibustered to keep the stimulus from anything but a flat recovery.
 

Excon

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
39,619
Reaction score
8,924
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
Well, we can't give Trump the opportunity to please his party with Conservative SCOTUS appointments.

We don't want to reward the Republicans with a President even if in name only.

Even though they hurt America for their political ends we don't want to hurt ourselves too much punishing them so if elected we want Trump to be successful and have a second Term.

Just the presence of Hillary Clinton in the Oval Office should chagrin them plenty.

Thus I can remain consistent and keep pulling for Hillary.
Who's "we" yooper? You got a pasty in your pocket?
 

Fenton

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
29,771
Reaction score
12,231
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I mostly agree with your post except that 2009-10 Republicans intentionally filibustered to keep the stimulus from anything but a flat recovery.

Lol !!

Yea austerity sux ! Only 8 Trillion in new debt over the last 8 years, should've been 20 Trillion
 

Exquisitor

Educator
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
6,437
Reaction score
894
Location
UP of Michigan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Lol !!

Yea austerity sux ! Only 8 Trillion in new debt over the last 8 years, should've been 20 Trillion

There should have been a short wave of spending but not too much just a little more than there was.
 

Fenton

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
29,771
Reaction score
12,231
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
There should have been a short wave of spending but not too much just a little more than there was.

:roll:

There WAS, it was called " Stimulus " and it didn't work as fiscal stimulus never does.

Stimulus routes private sector capital into public sector investments or into investments like Obama's green jobs initiative where that capital is wasted

Its a purely ideological solution pushed by people who are generally opposed to any solution that would incentivize more private sector Capital investment in our economy

People who have no clue how to effectively and safely grow market economies. Progressives.

Obama's green jobs initiative was a great example of the type of malinvestment thats paid for with " stimulus "

He was going to fund the construction of a manufacturing base that built products that no one wanted and that could have been manufactured in China for a fraction of the cost.

Private sector investors weren't the principle investors in that scam because no one in their right mind would have risked their wealth building a product that could be have OBVIOUSLY been built in China cheaper

They wouldn't have risked their capital investing in a product no one wanted

It was obvious to any investor that operated outside the fantasy world Obama and his ilk lived in but it wasn't obvious to Barrack Obama and why should it be ?

He had never run a business in his life but he was intrusted to invest billions of tax payer dollars.

What did the American tax payer recieve for their investment? A bunch of 5th amendment pleas from corrupt chroney capitalist

Stimulus has a LONG track record of failure.

The Japanese in the early 90's stuck to the Keynesian fiscal playbook by the letter and over the next 10 years spent 100 Trillion yen via 10 seperate stimulus packages and invested heavily on infrastructure.

Recently under Shizo Abe's fiscal and monetary initiatives ( Abenomics ) they entered into 4 more Fiscal stimulus initiatives.

Today Japan's NIKKEI is half of what it was in 1995 and their GDP is almost identical

Whats NOT identical is their debt which is 245 % of their GDP. The highest in the world.

I get Stimulus is the go to cure all from the left, its Bernie Sanders plan to fix our economy but its not a intelligent strategy to allow people who fundamentally oppose on principle free market solutions to affect economic policy in the American economy

They have no idea what they're doing and we, the American consumer, the Middle Class are the ones who suffer the consequences
 
Last edited:

Exquisitor

Educator
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
6,437
Reaction score
894
Location
UP of Michigan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Who's "we" yooper? You got a pasty in your pocket?

No, I'm just glad to see you.

I like the way "we" sounds sometimes so I use it.

"We" can refer to me, myself and I, could be self derogatory (mocking my insanity,) refer to the Divinity ("Let us make man in our image,") conform to Biblical cadence or refer to aspects of the divinity that manifest as multiple persons such as the Trinity or Panca Tattva (five avatars that appeared 500 years ago in India.)

There WAS, it was called " Stimulus " and it didn't work as fiscal stimulus never does.

Nonsense Fenton.

Balance and there is a time and place.

Without the amount of stimulus we had there would not have been a recovery.

With a little more stimulus recovery would have been profound and we could afford ACA (Obamacare.)

How is it virtually every liberal State's economy is doing better than every Conservative State's?
 

Fenton

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
29,771
Reaction score
12,231
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Nonsense Fenton.

Balance and there is a time and place.

Without the amount of stimulus we had there would not have been a recovery.

What recovery ???

Participation Rate Crashes To October 1977 Level: Americans Not In The Labor Force Soar By 579,000 To Record 94.6 Million | Zero Hedge

The Big Lie: 5.6% Unemployment

2009 ? 10,312,000 African-Americans not in the labor force.

2014 ? 11,923,000 African-Americans not in the labor force That by the way is a 15% increase in the number of Black Americans that have left the labor force.

46 million or one in seven Americans are on food stamps

In 2007, the average household income in America was $55,627, in 2014, that figure had fell to $53,880. Yup, Americans are earning less than what they did 7 years ago but hey, we're experiencing a "recovery "....:roll:

With a little more stimulus recovery would have been profound and we could afford ACA (Obamacare.)

:lamo

Yes ObamaCare. It was going to make Healthcare " affordable ". Affordable is in the title of the law and everything ! Tell me, if Healthcare was so un-affordable back in 2008 that we needed a new law to make it affordable, HOW is it more affordable now that cost, out of pocket expenses, premiums and deductibles have skyrocketed ???? It's not

What ObamaCare is is the single largest bait and switch scam ever to be pulled on the American consumer, pulled on ANY consumer. It was sold as a " Free market " solution by people who have no idea what a Free market is and it was sold on a pack of lies that will define Obama's pathetic legacy for the rest of his life. If a private Insurance company had done to tens of millions of American consumers what the Obama administration and the Democrat Party did they would be hauled into Federal court, sued by millions of consumers, sued by the DOJ and rightfully so. But lets say for some reason the Feds refused to do anything about it.

The consumer would still have recourse by CANCELLING their plans and going to a competitor

Libs like you would be using them as a example of why we need strict Govt regulations and why we need to Nationalize healthcare. But a private Insurance company didn't do it, the President and the Democrat party did which means the consumers have exactly ZERO recourse. That's the nice thing about private healthcare in a free market economy. ObamaCare is SO bad that the Democrats in the last Midterms had to pretend it didn't exist, and they STILL got their asses handed to them.

Continued.......
 

Fenton

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
29,771
Reaction score
12,231
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
How is it virtually every liberal State's economy is doing better than every Conservative State's?

:lamo :lamo :lamo

Texas !! ( Yay Texas !! ) It's my home State

Texas, the ‘great American job machine,’ is largely responsible for the +1.2M net US job increase since 2007
https://www.aei.org/publication/texas-great-american-job-machine-solely-responsible-1m-net-us-job-increase-since-2007/

Texas isn’t just leading the nation in job growth—it’s doing it more equitably, too
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/03/07/texas-isnt-just-leading-the-nation-in-job-growth-its-doing-it-more-equitably-too/

Why everybody is moving to Texas
Why everybody is moving to Texas - Sep. 29, 2014

Texas has a Mulit-Billion dollar budget surplus
Texas has $18 billion in new money to spend, but some is probably off-limits | Dallas Morning News


California :doh

Census Bureau: California still has highest U.S. poverty rate
Census Bureau: California still has highest U.S. poverty rate | The Sacramento Bee

California Has Highest Child Poverty Rate In Nation

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2015/feb/25/california-has-nations-highest-child-poverty-rate/

California lost 9,000 business HQs and expansions, mostly to Texas, 7-year study says
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/blog/morning_call/2015/11/california-lost-9-000-business-hqs-and-expansions.html

California tops the Nation with over 600 Billion in unfunded pension liabilities
http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2014-03-03/california-s-600-billion-sinkhole

California students score near bottom in math and reading
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/28/california-students-score-near-bottom-in-math-and-reading.html

L.A. tops nation in chronic homeless population
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-homeless-national-numbers-20151120-story.html

Report: California Worst in Nation on Homelessness
http://www.publicnewsservice.org/2015-11-27/housing-homelessness/report-california-worst-in-nation-on-homelessness/a49174-1

I can keep going if you like. Illinois happens to have the second highest levels of unfunded public sector liabilities and you dont want to go down the depressing rabbit hole that is Michigan and what's left of it's cities. Cities like Detroit and Flint that have been run into the ground by decades of Liberalism left unchecked.
 

Lovebug

Let go and let God
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2011
Messages
23,179
Reaction score
9,719
Location
south
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Other
Which is worse?

Which is worse for the Republican Party Clinton or Trump?

Never mind who is worse for the Country.

Some of you may have already recognized my vendetta against Congressional Republicans for trying to ruin Obama at our cost just for their deluded political ambition, fear, weakness and racist programing.

So I want to know who is worse for (elected) Republicans so I can make my decision.

Please refrain from never Trump or never Clinton discussion; just the facts and clear understanding please.

Not sure, but I am guessing that, after 4 years of Hillary, a Trump-like will be elected without even trying.
 

Exquisitor

Educator
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
6,437
Reaction score
894
Location
UP of Michigan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Not sure, but I am guessing that, after 4 years of Hillary, a Trump-like will be elected without even trying.

I'm thinking of going with Trump this time but I'm not sure it's the right move.
 

Lovebug

Let go and let God
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2011
Messages
23,179
Reaction score
9,719
Location
south
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Other
I'm thinking of going with Trump this time but I'm not sure it's the right move.

I will write in Mickey Mouse before I vote for either of the two.
 

Exquisitor

Educator
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
6,437
Reaction score
894
Location
UP of Michigan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I will write in Mickey Mouse before I vote for either of the two.

How does Gary Johnson feel to you?

Fox news was talking about third parties the other day.

If Fox were to broadcast that G. J. was polling ten percent in a three way match up he would run away with it.
 
Top Bottom