Which is the true communist paradise?

[Jredbaron96]

There’s no such thing as a revolutionary conservative movement. They are contradictory things

Actually I agree the terminology is poor and a better term would have been Reactionary Conservative movement; it doesn't change the fact that Hitler's Nazism was within the same general camp.

 

[Tigerace117]

Franco made Spain a happy and healthy society. Since his death globalist liberalism has eviscerated it.

Germany never made territorial demands on Britain or America. Nor did it make such demands on the French until after they had already gone to war against Germany.

Except it wasn’t happy, and certainly wasn’t healthy. It was a tyrannized society ruled by an iron fist from Madrid, which is why it came crashing down when he died.

Germany made territorial demands on just about all of its neighbors and launched brutal invasions of countries such as the Netherlands whose only “crime” was being in the way. The fact that Hitler hauled out the literal exact same box car Germany has capitulated in at the end of the last war to force the surrender of the French in is another sign that your fantasies about Hitler being “provoked” into land grabs are a bad joke.

 

[Tigerace117]

all of Hitlers ideology comes from liberal modernism. From central government control, to the ideology of German nationhood, to opposition to monarchy. millions of native Americans were not murdered. Millions were not murdered due to colonialism very tragically
is it a right wing authoritarian regime? I think Burma has a unique political history that doesn’t fit into those categories.

The Rohingya committed many atrocities against Buddhists, but the dumber thing is, their vulnerability comes from the end of British colonialism, the same thing you decried as mass murder of millions

Yes, they absolutely were. For example, in the Congo “Free State”. Trying to deny colonialism led to millions upon millions of deaths is dumb.

 

[NatMorton]

You seemed to be claiming I support Marxist ideas like the creation of a dictatorship of the proletariat. Was that not your intention?

No, that is not my intention. My intention was (and is) to assert that a dictatorship of the proletariat (Marx’s words, not yours) cannot be created without first creating an authoritarian state, and that is the trap from which those who do seek Communism never emerge.

In other words, it was a statement about Communism. Not everything said here is about you.

 

[Tigerace117]

Countries create contingencies for every scenario. At no point was Spain in any place to enter the war in any actual way.

Countries don’t spend hundreds millions of dollars—back when that was serious money on bribes for shits and giggles unless there’s a serious threat.

 

[Jredbaron96]

What is wrong with authoritarian regimes?

^imagine asking this unironically

 

[Jredbaron96]

Waging war against communist revolution is not murder

Murdering innocent people is, which authoritarian regimes have done in droves from all sides of the political spectrum.

 

[Birdzeye]

None of these are true communist countries

Indeed. The communist “ideal” has never truly existed in reality. If anything, communist regimes have tended to be dystopias, with a privileged few and many struggling for survival. Case in point, North Korea, led by an obese man, while the people go hungry.

 

[swing_voter]

The Nazis also supported an extensive welfare state (of course, for ‘ethnically pure’ Germans). It included free higher education, family and child support, pensions, health insurance and an array of publically supported entertainment and vacation options. All spheres of life, economy included, had to be subordinated to the ‘national interest’ (Gemeinnutz geht vor Eigennutz), and the fascist commitment to foster social equality and mobility. Radical meritocratic reforms are not usually thought of as signature Nazi measures, but, as Hitler once noted, the Third Reich has ‘opened the way for every qualified individual – whatever his origins – to reach the top if he is qualified, dynamic, industrious and resolute’.


Nazis in Germany had dozens of social programs for the people. But only for "aryan" people.

It was socialist.

The Nazis even nationalized businesses.

.

 

[Birdzeye]

Waging war against communist revolution is not murder

Well, the Argentines were ruled by a very brutal right wing military junta from 1976 to 1983. It was called the Dirty War, and boy, was it dirty. The junta’s goal was to eradicate leftist “subversion,” but in the process, people who were not leftists, but friends, relatives, and business associates were also rounded up, tortured, and murdered in extrajudicial killings. Due process of law went out the window. As many as 30,000 people vanished (“desaparecidos,” or “disappeared”), never to be seen again.

 

[Questerr]

No, that is not my intention. My intention was (and is) to assert that a dictatorship of the proletariat (Marx’s words, not yours) cannot be created without first creating an authoritarian state, and that is the trap from which those who do seek Communism never emerge.

In other words, it was a statement about Communism. Not everything said here is about you.

Then I apologize for my accusations and my hostile responses.

 

[Questerr]

Countries don’t spend hundreds millions of dollars—back when that was serious money on bribes for shits and giggles unless there’s a serious threat.

I'd have to see a source for this claim of hundreds of millions spent on bribes.

 

[TypicalRussian]

who would actually vote vietnam?

 

[Jredbaron96]

Nazis in Germany had dozens of social programs for the people. But only for "aryan" people.

It was socialist.

The Nazis even nationalized businesses.

The Nazis privatized as much as they nationalized

 

[Questerr]

The Nazis also supported an extensive welfare state (of course, for ‘ethnically pure’ Germans). It included free higher education, family and child support, pensions, health insurance and an array of publically supported entertainment and vacation options. All spheres of life, economy included, had to be subordinated to the ‘national interest’ (Gemeinnutz geht vor Eigennutz), and the fascist commitment to foster social equality and mobility. Radical meritocratic reforms are not usually thought of as signature Nazi measures, but, as Hitler once noted, the Third Reich has ‘opened the way for every qualified individual – whatever his origins – to reach the top if he is qualified, dynamic, industrious and resolute’.


Nazis in Germany had dozens of social programs for the people. But only for "aryan" people.

It was socialist.

The Nazis even nationalized businesses.

.

The Welfare State in Germany massively predated the Nazis. Almost all of it dates from the time of the Kaiser.

As for your claim that "all spheres of life, economy included" were controlled by the state under Nazism, you realize that economists had to invent the word "privatization" to describe the Nazi's actual real life policies, right?

 

[Questerr]

The Nazis privatized as much as they nationalized

I would argue they privatized FAR MORE than they nationalized, and most of their nationalizations occurred well into the war.

 

[Jredbaron96]

I would argue they privatized FAR MORE than they nationalized, and most of their nationalizations occurred well into the war.

I don't have the figures on hand, but its likely. The Nazis made a point of preserving the private industry of Germans.

 

[iguanaman]

Which holds closest to the communist ideal?

Cuba
Vietnam
China
North Korea

None of the above. The only real communist nation was the USSR and they are gone. Cuba tried it for a while but if failed there too. Same with China and Vietnam is the same. N. Korea is a military dictatorship and a pseudo monarchy.

 

[iguanaman]

I don't have the figures on hand, but its likely. The Nazis made a point of preserving the private industry of Germans.

And the first thing they did was round up all the Bolsheviks like the promised the titans of industry for their support. Many are still rich from the money they made under the 3rd Reich.

 

[iguanaman]

I mean I'm just going to say China, when I think "communism" I think China traditionally.
But I'm just going with word association, I am not greatly knowledgable about the inner workings of their governments.

China has more entrepreneurs than we do and the fastest growing middle class in the world. GM sells more cars there than in the US. They do have a dictatorship for their govt. but it is not really communist.

 

[BitterPill]

No, that is not my intention. My intention was (and is) to assert that a dictatorship of the proletariat (Marx’s words, not yours) cannot be created without first creating an authoritarian state, and that is the trap from which those who do seek Communism never emerge.

In other words, it was a statement about Communism. Not everything said here is about you.

Contrary to Marx's words, Russia emerged from communism and became a militant kleptocracy, a huge improvement by the way.

 

[soylentgreen]

Small pox blankets is a lie.

No, it is true enough. Along with the slaughter of women and children. Then we can add all the africans sold into slavery and murdered just to build your american empire. Boasting that the russians murdered their own is just you the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Except Hitler was a left winger and not a conservative

 

[Cardinal]

Every communist experiment has failed. Stick a fork in it.

 

[Questerr]

Except Hitler was a left winger and not a conservative

Even if that’s true (which it isn’t), why does that matter? He was an authoritarian. That’s the problem, and also the ideology you advocate.