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Which gun law works?

Name one gun law that has ever stopped a crime involving a gun from being committed. Name one offense that a gun law could prevent. Any offense you want to consider and any gun law you want to make. Let's hear 'em.

Stand Your Ground, and Castle Doctrine laws appear to work pretty well.
 
Stand Your Ground, and Castle Doctrine laws appear to work pretty well.
I agree but those are statutes. I'm referring to laws that are meant to criminalize something. You can't be convicted of a crime for running away instead of standing your ground. Know what I mean?
 
I agree but those are statutes. I'm referring to laws that are meant to criminalize something. You can't be convicted of a crime for running away instead of standing your ground. Know what I mean?

It was more of a statement on how gun bans don't work.
 
regulating use is OK with me as long as its sensible

for example-shooting pigeons on Times Square with a 12 bore should be banned

target shooting with a 50 BMG in a suburban environment-banned as well

I agree. And that's the point I have been trying to make.

What folks that don't know anything about guns think when someone states "gun laws don't work" is that means that there should be NO regulation.
And quite frankly, that hurts us in the gun debate

Its unfortunate thought that some of this board don't seem to get that. That's why we responsible gun owners constantly have to educate and
 
I agree. And that's the point I have been trying to make.

What folks that don't know anything about guns think when someone states "gun laws don't work" is that means that there should be NO regulation.
And quite frankly, that hurts us in the gun debate

Its unfortunate thought that some of this board don't seem to get that. That's why we responsible gun owners constantly have to educate and

Here is the problem. Gun laws do not reduce crime. A regulation against 50 BMG's in urban area's will not reduce crime. A regulation banning specific types of weapons do not affect crime. This is the same hole your type of "responsible gun owners" loose us more ground every day. Gun laws to fight crime DON"T WORK. Gun laws passed now days are for one reason... To get us closer to a complete ban. This is what they want and fight for. They don't want "common sense gun laws" if they did they would actually address the real causes of crime rather than a tool used by criminals.

I have no problem with some gun regulation like background checks for new purchases and zoning restrictions for certain ammo, it makes sense. What does not make sense is an assault weapons ban and tax increases to restrict our God given right to self defence etc.

So at this point it don't give a rats ass what idiots who know **** about guns and don't want to know anything about them think.
 
for example-shooting pigeons on Times Square with a 12 bore should be banned

I disagree with this. Once a week for three hours there should be a free for all on those flying rats. Just clear out the area of humans first.
 
I disagree with this. Once a week for three hours there should be a free for all on those flying rats. Just clear out the area of humans first.

I almost spit pop on my keyboard!
 
so what

a proper reading of Heller and Miller would find that real assault rifles are the single most 2A protected arms

There were lots of murders with pistols before Chicago banned them

even more afterwards

machine gun murders before the 1934 NFA basically went from being ones that had been legally bought to ones that were not

Actually no.. machine gun murders before NFA went from being more common to being virtually non existent.

Just the facts. .
 
That is what I thought. That is not proof of a reduction in crime. That is a reduction of a type of weapon used in crime. It did not affect crime at all. Just look at the massive bombings and shootings we still have?

Keep trying.

Actually its both.. And the "massive bombings and shootings" we now have are really not like what was going on in the 1920s and 1930's. Only we now freak out because its on a 24 hour news cycle.. and interrupts Snooki. It was a much more dangerous time then. In fact statistically, crime is much lower now.

Just pesky facts .
 
Actually no.. machine gun murders before NFA went from being more common to being virtually non existent.

Just the facts. .


you are wrong. there have never been many machine gun murders. and that means nothing. you seem to think that banning honest people from owning something is worth the price for allegedly preventing crime. its not
 
Actually its both.. And the "massive bombings and shootings" we now have are really not like what was going on in the 1920s and 1930's. Only we now freak out because its on a 24 hour news cycle.. and interrupts Snooki. It was a much more dangerous time then. In fact statistically, crime is much lower now.

Just pesky facts .

you mean as more and more guns are in circulation, gun crime and violence has gone down

go figure
 
I disagree with this. Once a week for three hours there should be a free for all on those flying rats. Just clear out the area of humans first.

believe it or not in Cincinnati, circa mid 50s, a bunch of the top shooters in town-my father included were asked to assemble on the upper observation level of the carew tower which was many many feet higher than any nearby building, to shoot pigeons.

lots of pigeons died but the event did not become a tradition
 
You keep coming back with this "Don't let a 6 year old buy a gun" tripe. No, 6 year old's can't by guns. They can't buy cars, cigarettes, alcohol or F'n airplanes either. A lot manufacturers are required to notify the public of recalls; Cars, Child car seats, drug companies, aircraft, boats, etc.

Yep.. you are absolutely right... and so saying that gun laws don't work or aren't necessary is just plain wrong.. and paints us in a bad light.

Please stop. True Patriots don't care if there are people that perceive that we are "making it easy for the anti gun crowd". The anti gun crowd sure as heck doesn't care what we think and every little inch you give them the more miles they try to take. I don't appease when it comes to my rights. I don't give inches, I take miles.[/

Please.. You are an anti gunners wet dream. The fact is that gun owners in this country are a minority.. not a majority. and if we do not recognize that fact that public relations plays a role in maintaining our freedoms.. then we are just plain stupid. There is a vast amount of folks in this country that know nothing about guns.. they are not for them or against them per se. but they do listen to both sides of the issue. Now.. if they are listening to gun owners preach how they are "REAL PATRIOTS" and how no gun laws work, and how no regulation of guns should ever be allowed....
And they compare to an Anti gunner saying there needs to be "reasonable gun control"... we look like the extremists.

You can say how that doesn't matter all you want.. but it does.. and quite frankly, I get tired have having to give thousands of dollars to lobby for my freedoms because some ideologues don't want to listen to reason and rather howl at the moon how they are real patriots.

It isn't appeasement.. its smart. Turtledude said it:
turtledude said:
regulating use is OK with me as long as its sensible

That's our message and then we get people to listen why particular laws.. such as background checks, etc are NOT SENSIBLE... cause THATS an easy sell. For example... the Sandy Hook Shooter shot his mother and stole her weapons... so Obama wants background checks? How would that work.

Reasonable people who don't know about guns.. do respond to that. Not to the no regulation, True PATRIOT crap you espouse.
 
Actually its both.. And the "massive bombings and shootings" we now have are really not like what was going on in the 1920s and 1930's. Only we now freak out because its on a 24 hour news cycle.. and interrupts Snooki. It was a much more dangerous time then. In fact statistically, crime is much lower now.

Just pesky facts .

No. The law you quoted had no effect on crime whatsoever. There is no correlation between gun laws and the reduction in crime we have experienced, none.

The only thing "pesky" about your facts is well... That you have none.
 
No. The law you quoted had no effect on crime whatsoever. There is no correlation between gun laws and the reduction in crime we have experienced, none.

The only thing "pesky" about your facts is well... That you have none.

I guess you can continue to say it as much as you want.. but it simply isn't true.

I showed you easy evidence of the crimes that were committed during the era before 1934 and after that their has been much less of that type of crime.

now.. that doesn't generalize that "all gun laws" work or that gun laws =less crime as a general rule (hardly).. but it does point out that certain regulations.. like the 1934 law did have an effect on the types of crime.

Can't get around it.. be mad all you want.. but its simply a fact.

Simply pointing out to you that if you ever get in a debate over this in a room full of people that are not already on your side.. you are going to lose. Blanket statements like you are making are often a debaters dream.
 
I guess you can continue to say it as much as you want.. but it simply isn't true.

I showed you easy evidence of the crimes that were committed during the era before 1934 and after that their has been much less of that type of crime.

now.. that doesn't generalize that "all gun laws" work or that gun laws =less crime as a general rule (hardly).. but it does point out that certain regulations.. like the 1934 law did have an effect on the types of crime.

Can't get around it.. be mad all you want.. but its simply a fact.

Simply pointing out to you that if you ever get in a debate over this in a room full of people that are not already on your side.. you are going to lose. Blanket statements like you are making are often a debaters dream.

do you support banning a certain class of gun if that would decrease crime with that gun?
 
I guess you can continue to say it as much as you want.. but it simply isn't true.

I showed you easy evidence of the crimes that were committed during the era before 1934 and after that their has been much less of that type of crime.

No you have not. You showed that crime involving that type of weapon continued until the end of prohibition. It did not affect crime, only the weapon used. Doh! Had nothing to do with gun laws.

now.. that doesn't generalize that "all gun laws" work or that gun laws =less crime as a general rule (hardly).. but it does point out that certain regulations.. like the 1934 law did have an effect on the types of crime.

Can't get around it.. be mad all you want.. but its simply a fact.

I am not mad. As soon as you post a relevant fact that flies in the face of there being no correlation between crime reduction and gun laws, you might have something. The problem is I know you can't.

Simply pointing out to you that if you ever get in a debate over this in a room full of people that are not already on your side.. you are going to lose. Blanket statements like you are making are often a debaters dream.

Fact: No correlation between crime and guns exist. Period.
Fact: The restricting of fully automatic weapons did not affect crime at all, the end of prohibition did.
Fact: You have provided no evidence at all to back up what you said, period.

Now as soon as you can get past the facts, you might again have something.

Some more nasty little facts for you...

States’ crime rates show scant linkage to gun laws - http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ates-show-scant-linkage-to-gun-laws/?page=all
Harvard Study: Gun Control Is Counterproductive - http://theacru.org/acru/harvard_study_gun_control_is_counterproductive/
Gun Control 2013: Guns and Crime is a False Correlation - http://www.policymic.com/articles/40325/gun-control-2013-guns-and-crime-is-a-false-correlation

Do I need to keep going?
 
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Yep.. you are absolutely right... and so saying that gun laws don't work or aren't necessary is just plain wrong.. and paints us in a bad light.



Please.. You are an anti gunners wet dream. The fact is that gun owners in this country are a minority.. not a majority. and if we do not recognize that fact that public relations plays a role in maintaining our freedoms.. then we are just plain stupid. There is a vast amount of folks in this country that know nothing about guns.. they are not for them or against them per se. but they do listen to both sides of the issue. Now.. if they are listening to gun owners preach how they are "REAL PATRIOTS" and how no gun laws work, and how no regulation of guns should ever be allowed....
And they compare to an Anti gunner saying there needs to be "reasonable gun control"... we look like the extremists.

You can say how that doesn't matter all you want.. but it does.. and quite frankly, I get tired have having to give thousands of dollars to lobby for my freedoms because some ideologues don't want to listen to reason and rather howl at the moon how they are real patriots.

It isn't appeasement.. its smart. Turtledude said it:

That's our message and then we get people to listen why particular laws.. such as background checks, etc are NOT SENSIBLE... cause THATS an easy sell. For example... the Sandy Hook Shooter shot his mother and stole her weapons... so Obama wants background checks? How would that work.

Reasonable people who don't know about guns.. do respond to that. Not to the no regulation, True PATRIOT crap you espouse.

I don't care what you think or rather or not anti-gunners like me or dream of me or whatever the f***. Your arguing a point in your own little room standing by yourself and basically saying a lot of pro gunners are morons that think kids should be able to buy guns. It's like saying that 6 year old's not being able to buy cars prevents auto accidents. NO S**T!!!! It's ridiculous to use the "Kids getting guns" in this thread because it's obvious (Well, maybe not to you) that I was referring to criminal laws and banning laws. You are insulting forum members stating that we are too moronic to realize a 6 year old shouldn't be able to buy a gun. I think you just started that inane line of dialog to troll/bait. You start acting like you are so enlightened and post crap that assumes we are all Neanderthal, low I.Q. idiots and I'm calling you out. I will state this another way because maybe your intelligence level is just way to elevated to understand my last reply; The anti-gun/anti-freedom socialists do not give two s**ts if we agree that 6 year old's shouldn't have guns. We can state that 24/7/365 and it wouldn't go 1 inch with them, they will still want bans, prove your not a criminal checks and all the other crap that they keep trying to implement. They don't care about recalls because they don't want us to have guns that we will need to get a notification about in the first place. They don't care about extra time for use of firearm laws because THEY WANT ALL GUNS BANNED!!!!!

O.P. "Name one gun law that has ever stopped a crime involving a gun from being committed. Name one offense that a gun law could prevent. Any offense you want to consider and any gun law you want to make. Let's hear 'em."

Notice the phrases "Stopped a crime" and "Offense prevented". Commonsense logic says I meant adult criminal actions. Commonsense logic doesn't assume I'm referring to 6 year old's robbing liquor stores or shooting their baby sister.

Gun owners are not the minority. pro- freedomers may be but not gun owners. you show me some stats showing that gun owners are the minority in this Country. In 2007 there where 94.3 guns per every 100 people in the U.S.A. This is more recent
 
do you support banning a certain class of gun if that would decrease crime with that gun?

First.. I am not for bans really anyway. Regulations and restrictions.. depends on what makes sense.

You want to own a say a 20mm cannon? I think its okay, but I am not against extra regulation to make sure it and the ammunition is stored safely and you have knowledge to operate it safely and don't say have ties to Al queda.

But generally, no. And the reason is that though bans to certain classes of guns can decrease crime with that gun. (and such can be seen in European countries). The very very small benefits of such simply do not outweigh the tremendous loss of freedom that these bans cause. And not only do they cause a loss of freedom but the cost in enforcement, regulation, so on and so forth is both tremendous and wasteful and quite frankly are much better spent doing things that have much greater improvements on safety.. such as access to mental health..
 
Manta said:
No you have not. You showed that crime involving that type of weapon continued until the end of prohibition. It did not affect crime, only the weapon used. Doh! Had nothing to do with gun laws
.

Nice try.. but no. If a law say bans toys that are choking hazards for small children. and after that law.. fewer children choke to death on those toys.... would you say that the toy ban wasn't effective because children still choke on quarters?

I dare say any reasonable person would not.



I am not mad. As soon as you post a relevant fact that flies in the face of there being no correlation between crime reduction and gun laws, you might have something. The problem is I know you can't.

Fact: No correlation between crime and guns exist. Period.
Not fact.. there are correlations between crime and guns... in fact.. areas with more lax laws are correlated with lower rates of crime. Fact.

Certainly there are correlations between people being murdered with a gun and a gun being present.


Fact: The restricting of fully automatic weapons did not affect crime at all, the end of prohibition did.

Nope.. because we still have prohibition on all sorts of drugs and the criminal element and organized crime that goes with it.

Fact: You have provided no evidence at all to back up what you said, period
. Again not true.

.

Some more nasty little facts for you...

States’ crime rates show scant linkage to gun laws - States' crime rates show scant linkage to gun laws - Washington Times
Harvard Study: Gun Control Is Counterproductive - Harvard Study: Gun Control Is Counterproductive | The American Civil Rights Union
Gun Control 2013: Guns and Crime is a False Correlation - Gun Control 2013: Guns and Crime is a False Correlation


Great facts.. know all about them. But here is a little fact for you... all those studies look at the overall effect of gun laws on general crime rates. There are gun laws that are sensible.. and there are a whole host of gun laws that are not sensible and having nothing to do with crime.

Just because there are a whole host of guns laws that have more to do with emotion than with common sense.. doesn't mean that there are gun laws that are sensible.

Are you really going to argue that a gun law restricting violent parolees from having a firearm hasn't prevented crime? Because I personally know a few parole officers that have sent guys back to jail for a weapons violation after finding weapons, rope, and crowbars ready to go at a felons place.

.
 
I don't care what you think or rather or not anti-gunners like me or dream of me or whatever the f***. Your arguing a point in your own little room standing by yourself and basically saying a lot of pro gunners are morons that think kids should be able to buy guns. It's like saying that 6 year old's not being able to buy cars prevents auto accidents. NO S**T!!!! It's ridiculous to use the "Kids getting guns" in this thread because it's obvious (Well, maybe not to you) that I was referring to criminal laws and banning laws. You are insulting forum members stating that we are too moronic to realize a 6 year old shouldn't be able to buy a gun. I think you just started that inane line of dialog to troll/bait. You start acting like you are so enlightened and post crap that assumes we are all Neanderthal, low I.Q. idiots and I'm calling you out. I will state this another way because maybe your intelligence level is just way to elevated to understand my last reply; The anti-gun/anti-freedom socialists do not give two s**ts if we agree that 6 year old's shouldn't have guns. We can state that 24/7/365 and it wouldn't go 1 inch with them, they will still want bans, prove your not a criminal checks and all the other crap that they keep trying to implement. They don't care about recalls because they don't want us to have guns that we will need to get a notification about in the first place. They don't care about extra time for use of firearm laws because THEY WANT ALL GUNS BANNED!!!!!

O.P. "Name one gun law that has ever stopped a crime involving a gun from being committed. Name one offense that a gun law could prevent. Any offense you want to consider and any gun law you want to make. Let's hear 'em."

Notice the phrases "Stopped a crime" and "Offense prevented". Commonsense logic says I meant adult criminal actions. Commonsense logic doesn't assume I'm referring to 6 year old's robbing liquor stores or shooting their baby sister.

Gun owners are not the minority. pro- freedomers may be but not gun owners. you show me some stats showing that gun owners are the minority in this Country. In 2007 there where 94.3 guns per every 100 people in the U.S.A. This is more recent
[/QUOTE]

The problem is.. I am not arguing a point standing in little room by myself. THATS WHAT YOU ARE DOING. The perfect example is this gun control forum. There are die hard gun advocates.. and yep.. there are die hard anti gunners too. but there are also a whole host of people in the middle... in fact, probably a majority that aren't sure which way to go on the issue.

Some of those very people have posted on this forum... and have been treated rather rudely by some of the very pro gun advocates. THATS where the insulting is going on. That simply is not good gun owner relations.. and when it comes to our rights... we need more people on our side than against it.

I am not insulting anyone regarding the 6 year old buying guns. I realize that we don't think six year olds should buy guns... THATS WHY WE DO SUPPORT SOME SENSIBLE GUNS LAWS. Get it?

Don't assume anything when it comes to people that don't know anything about guns. When they hear someone spout off.. NO GUN LAWS WORK.... what many if not most of them hear is... EXACTLY THAT... no restrictions on who may own.. felons, children, mentally ill.. etc\
No safety laws.. no restrictions on where you can carry etc.. It makes the gun owning community LOOK like extremists... and in the public world.. perception is reality.

Now on to anti gunners... sure.. some of them are die hards that will NEVER EVER listen to reason. but there are many.. maybe even a majority that are reasonable people that are simply unaware of the facts. I have run into those people and turned folks that were definitely anti gun... to at least tolerant of them and a few that are now gun owners themselves.

Gun owners are the minority:

A Gallup poll quoted by the Sourcebook of Criminal Justice Statistics asked U.S. residents the following question:


Do you have a gun in your home?

In 2010, 39% of respondents answered "yes." The figure has been fluctuating between 38% and 42% in polls taken since 2000, and has ranged between 36% and 51% since polling began in 1959.


Read more: Who Owns Guns in America? | Infoplease.com Who Owns Guns in America? | Infoplease.com

Per capita statistics like the one you show are not valid since gun owners may own multiple weapons
 
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It is possible to own a 20mm anti-tank rifle, but good luck finding one.

Anyway, assault weapons ban did nothing useful, Chicago and D.C. handgun bans did nothing useful, Australian gun ban increased crime rates as did its counterpart in the U.K....

So let's stop banning things and get to the root of the problem.
 
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