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Where Jacking-up the Minimum Wage Leads ...

This was inevitable In China where they pay their workers a fraction of what workers are paid here they also have labor substitution in their work places..

Robots/digital can work 24/7. no sick days, they are more productive, very little safety concerns, this goes faaaaaar beyond just pay...
 
NatMorton said:
... when the cost of labor begins to outpace the economic value that of labor, labor substitution can become economically viable:

boston.cbslocal.com

Dunkin' Opens First 'Digital-Only' Restaurant In Boston

A new kind of Dunkin' has just opened in Boston.
boston.cbslocal.com boston.cbslocal.com
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We should eliminate a minimum wage so businesses can pay the pennies an hour to be competitive with automation....

Did you even think before you made this really stupid argument?
 
Redress said:
We should eliminate a minimum wage so businesses can pay the pennies an hour to be competitive with automation....
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No, we should eliminate minimum wage laws because they make it illegal to hire people for what they're worth, thus making both employers and employees worse off. Raising the minimum wage doesn't change what people are worth in the labor market anymore than a minimum sale price for houses changes what your house is worth in the housing market.
 
NatMorton said:
... when the cost of labor begins to outpace the economic value that of labor, labor substitution can become economically viable:

boston.cbslocal.com

Dunkin' Opens First 'Digital-Only' Restaurant In Boston

A new kind of Dunkin' has just opened in Boston.
boston.cbslocal.com boston.cbslocal.com
Click to expand...

Economics is not singular like that.

The migration from employee labor for repetitive tasks to automation for repetitive tasks predates the minimum wage, or "living wage," debate. All of the influencers into why these migrations exist cover things like human factors (as in repetition, speed, errors) to timing (as in distribution of tasks.) Labor costs are a factor in dealing with various business model needs, but is not the only factor as automations are not cheep either from installation to maintenance.

And as others have pointed out you would have to remove the idea of minimum wage entirely to perhaps make a dent in the migration to automations but it would not stop all of those initiatives.

Just as it did not in other industries that experienced this where their labor worked for far more than minimum wage.

Labor costs and labor capabilities are entirely different things.

To suggest Dunkin did this entirely because of minimum wage in Boston is political argument in hopes your opposition never set foot in an economics classroom.
 
NatMorton said:
when the cost of labor begins to outpace the economic value that of labor, labor substitution can become economically viable:
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Automation has little to do with the minimum wage. Automation has been happening for a long time and usually has more to do with replacing high wage/high benefit employees than minimum wage employees. The auto industry, the aviation industry and manufacturing in general are good examples where significant high paying jobs have been replaced with robotics/mechanization.
 
Redress said:
We should eliminate a minimum wage so businesses can pay the pennies an hour to be competitive with automation....

Did you even think before you made this really stupid argument?
Click to expand...

There is nothing stupid about his argument and he made no suggestion of eliminating the minimum wage. His argument is against jacking up the minimum wage. The current movement in that direction demands a minimum wage of $15.00 an hour for even low or no skill jobs. Automation is prohibitively expensive to purchase, install, and maintain. However there is a breaking point when high wage demands make automation look attractive.
 
aociswundumho said:
No, we should eliminate minimum wage laws because they make it illegal to hire people for what they're worth, thus making both employers and employees worse off. Raising the minimum wage doesn't change what people are worth in the labor market anymore than a minimum sale price for houses changes what your house is worth in the housing market.
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Let the market decide what wages should be? You sound like a bloody capitalist.
 
OrphanSlug said:
Economics is not singular like that.

The migration from employee labor for repetitive tasks to automation for repetitive tasks predates the minimum wage, or "living wage," debate. All of the influencers into why these migrations exist cover things like human factors (as in repetition, speed, errors) to timing (as in distribution of tasks.) Labor costs are a factor in dealing with various business model needs, but is not the only factor as automations are not cheep either from installation to maintenance.

And as others have pointed out you would have to remove the idea of minimum wage entirely to perhaps make a dent in the migration to automations but it would not stop all of those initiatives.

Just as it did not in other industries that experienced this where their labor worked for far more than minimum wage.

Labor costs and labor capabilities are entirely different things.

To suggest Dunkin did this entirely because of minimum wage in Boston is political argument in hopes your opposition never set foot in an economics classroom.
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I was going to say the same thing but you said it better.
 
Poverty and crime often go hand in hand.

So how much should we pay the laborers who build and operate the prisons that we need to house those who turn to crime as a result of poverty wages?

And speaking of automation, how much should we pay the workers who will maintain the robots that replace all those minimum wage workers?
 
Stealers Wheel said:
Poverty and crime often go hand in hand.

So how much should we pay the laborers who build and operate the prisons that we need to house those who turn to crime as a result of poverty wages?

And speaking of automation, how much should we pay the workers who will maintain the robots that replace all those minimum wage workers?
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We are a very interdependent society and those wages and the people must be understood as part of the organic whole that make up the society. This is what libertarians and republicans don't understand. Its not just 300 million people living together but independently. The society is an organism of itself, just as the self-sustaining biodiversity organism of a forest. and that monetary organism is why we have the science of economics to understand how it should be managed for the best interest and the social stability of the whole and not just the best interest of the wealthy and powerful.
 
element94 said:
Car repair shops are now charging $124 an hour for labor.
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But how much are they paying for labor? I know for a fact that even the most qualified auto mechanics do not make anywhere near $100 an hour.
 
Lisa said:
We are a very interdependent society and those wages and the people must be understood as part of the organic whole that make up the society. This is what libertarians and republicans don't understand. Its not just 300 million people living together but independently. The society is an organism of itself, just as the self-sustaining biodiversity organism of a forest. and that monetary organism is why we have the science of economics to understand how it should be managed for the best interest and the social stability of the whole and not just the best interest of the wealthy and powerful.
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OR . . . we could go back to the good old days of the company store where capitalists controlled both wages and the costs of goods. Those were wonderful days. /s
 
Republicans are a weird. They say over and over again how much they love capitalism and the free market..

But as soon as the workers/laborers get the upper hand all of the sudden they hate the working class and the free market...
 
Stealers Wheel said:
But how much are they paying for labor? I know for a fact that even the most qualified auto mechanics do not make anywhere near $100 an hour.
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I was referring to what customers have to pay, and subtly tieing it into raising the minimum wage.
 
NatMorton said:
... when the cost of labor begins to outpace the economic value that of labor, labor substitution can become economically viable:

boston.cbslocal.com

Dunkin' Opens First 'Digital-Only' Restaurant In Boston

A new kind of Dunkin' has just opened in Boston.
boston.cbslocal.com boston.cbslocal.com
Click to expand...

Minimum wage increases didn't cause this.

A human being is already far more expensive than a computer. You can do this stuff on an ipad. Even $2/hour is more expensive than the ipad.
 
Stealers Wheel said:
OR . . . we could go back to the good old days of the company store where capitalists controlled both wages and the costs of goods. Those were wonderful days. /s
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The GQP has supported slavery and the golden years of the robber barons. They elected a trust fund failure to the White House and everything he touched turned from gold to lead, even 350,000 lives of Americans because he refused to respond to Covid19 in an effective manner.

The GOP used to be pragamtic conservatives 50 years ago but now they have legislated greed, immorality and selfishness's and try to paint themselves as Christian and pro-life to their mindless voters as a way to rationalize their shortsighted hypocritical behavior. Jesus wasn't a capitalist and he didn't support either wealth or greed, but Jesus only matters to conservatives on Xmas and Easter.

Deuce said:
Minimum wage increases didn't cause this.

A human being is already far more expensive than a computer. You can do this stuff on an ipad. Even $2/hour is more expensive than the ipad.
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I doubt it will be a success because people dont want to deal with a computer that is prone to mistakes. They want personalized service from a human and most will pay a little extra for it.
 
Lisa said:
Jesus wasn't a capitalist and he didn't support either wealth or greed, but Jesus only matters to conservatives on Xmas and Easter.
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Jesus was a socialist, feeding thousands for free and providing free healthcare everywhere he went. And when he encountered the capitalists in the temple, he got really pissed.

Jesus became very popular among the masses, drawing crowds of thousands. That is why he had to be silenced.

I can't help but be amused when conservative Christians enthusiastically support state-sponsored capital punishment, considering the fate of the founder of their faith.

 
Deuce said:
Minimum wage increases didn't cause this.

A human being is already far more expensive than a computer. You can do this stuff on an ipad. Even $2/hour is more expensive than the ipad.
Click to expand...
I doubt it will be a success because people dont want to deal with a computer that is prone to mistakes. They want personalized service from a human and most will pay a little extra for it.
Stealers Wheel said:
Jesus was a socialist, feeding thousands for free and providing free healthcare everywhere he went. And when he encountered the capitalists in the temple, he got really pissed.

Jesus became very popular among the masses, drawing crowds of thousands. That is why he had to be silenced.

I can't help but be amused when conservative Christians enthusiastically support state-sponsored capital punishment, considering the fate of the founder of their faith.
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Jesus was a communist.

Matthew 19:21

This sounds a lot like Karl Marx.
Acts 2:44-45 and Acts 4:32-35
"All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had... For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need."
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Lisa said:
I doubt it will be a success because people dont want to deal with a computer that is prone to mistakes. They want personalized service from a human and most will pay a little extra for it.
Click to expand...
The computer isn't prone to mistakes, the customer is prone to mistakes. The customer is also slower and clumsier on an interface they haven't used before.

However, these issues go away over time. That's why these screens are introduced gradually. Get people used to them. Eventually, it's a non-issue.
 
Deuce said:
The computer isn't prone to mistakes, the customer is prone to mistakes. The customer is also slower and clumsier on an interface they haven't used before.

However, these issues go away over time. That's why these screens are introduced gradually. Get people used to them. Eventually, it's a non-issue.
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Do you want me to explain the problem in detail and include both systems engineering and ergonomics. I'm a design engineer. This is what I do.

Most of these systems are very poorly designed, have poor backup plans, get overloaded easily and they are very limited in function. A human backup is often the best choice except in environments that are hazardous. I'd rather deal with a moderately intelligent human that is well paid for their time. It makes life much more rewarding. Computers are good at certain things but consumer service is not one of them.
 
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