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Where do you stand on abortion/deathpenalty?

Where Do You Stand?

  • Pro-Choice, Pro-Death Penalty

    Votes: 5 16.7%
  • Pro-Choice, Anti-Death Penalty

    Votes: 11 36.7%
  • Pro-Life, Pro-Death Penalty

    Votes: 8 26.7%
  • Pro-Life, Anti-Death Penalty

    Votes: 6 20.0%

  • Total voters
    30
  • Poll closed .

Saboteur

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Okay I would like to clarify somethings. I'm realitivly new here and I've been debating on both issues. But I would like to know where you stand.

Me: Pro-Choice, Anti-Death Penalty

Why:

Abortion will happen even if it is illegal and I think women deserve to have it done in a clean, safe environment by a medical professional.

Putting a person in prison for life IMO is worse than a death sentence.
 

Calm2Chaos

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Pro Choice and Pro Death penalty:

You do the crime ya better be prepared to to the time. Or get the needle. We need to streamline the appeals process and not have these guys on deathrow so long .... Ya did it? .. fine. ......Heres your needle......NEXT!!!!!
 

LaMidRighter

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Saboteur said:
Okay I would like to clarify somethings. I'm realitivly new here and I've been debating on both issues. But I would like to know where you stand.
Welcome!:2wave:

Me: Pro-Choice, Anti-Death Penalty
fair enough.

Why:

Abortion will happen even if it is illegal and I think women deserve to have it done in a clean, safe environment by a medical professional.
I am pro-life, but feel the same way, do convenience abortion advocates deserve clean and safe, I don't think so, but the humane side of me doesn't want to see an American suffer through use of a back-alley abortion that got botched. I guess you could call me a choose-life Republican, I would rather people use other options.

Putting a person in prison for life IMO is worse than a death sentence.
This is where we disagree, the problem is in the appeals process, if there is no doubt that the person committed a capitol offense, such as solid evidence, or very credible witnesses(let's say 5 or more) then appeals should be limited and quick. When there is doubt, extra time should be given to insure that we kill the right person.

Here's how I differentiate; Innocent children didn't ask to be concieved, they have committed no crimes and hurt no one. Murderers, by their heinous acts have forfeited their rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. In fact, I think violent rape, child molestation, and child rape should be added as capitol offenses. We actually have two capitol offenses here in Louisiana, Murder(can't remember if it's one or two), and rape of a child under 12.
 

mixedmedia

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I didn't vote, because my view on abortion is complicated. I believe abortion is ethically wrong. Birth control should be free and easy to obtain for all women and teen girls. I'm still on the fence with the "morning after pill" but it could possibly be very effective in reducing the abortion rate assuming it is free and easy to obtain. Perhaps then we could see the demand for abortions reduced to a manageable level, and then eventually stop the practice altogether.
But until such a time I see abortion as wrong but, with no practical alternatives, necessary.

I am anti-death penalty.
 

Hornburger

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I'm pro-life and anti-death penalty.

Why I'm anti-death penalty: It costs more and is not very effective at deterring crime. It isn't necessary. Maybe if we find away to reduce the number of appeals and at the same time find a safe conclusion as to whether the defendant is guilty or innocent and, if guilty, the extremity of the crime, I will then reconsider my position. The thing is that not all crimes are black-and-white, so that such appeals become quite lengthly, in the end costing all of us more. It's not like the convict will become a threat to society if they are locked up in prison for all their life...

Here's what I posted in the abortion section, I'll put it here too. Why I'm pro-life:

In my opinion, I feel that abortion is murder. I define "living" as at the point of conception, when the DNA is injected into the egg. That DNA individualizes it from every SINGLE human being EVERYWHERE. It is important to protect this individual-the one who has made no choices in this life and has done nothing wrong. I don't think we can just let murder "slide by". Now, don't have these huge penalties for the people taking part in such an act, if we did that our jails would be packed, I don't know what the exact penalties we should set abortion laws at, but the first step would be actually overturning the case Roe v. Wade.
 
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H

hipsterdufus

Saboteur said:
Okay I would like to clarify somethings. I'm realitivly new here and I've been debating on both issues. But I would like to know where you stand.

Me: Pro-Choice, Anti-Death Penalty

Why:

Abortion will happen even if it is illegal and I think women deserve to have it done in a clean, safe environment by a medical professional.

Putting a person in prison for life IMO is worse than a death sentence.
Ditto on my vote. I would also add the DNA evidence has proven that people have been unjustly put to death. There's no overturning that.

Safe - Legal and Rare - that's where I would like to see abortion. It would help if these abstinece only idiots would go away! There is no evidence that this form of education is working. Abortions have gone UP under Bush's presidency.
 
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Hornburger

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hipsterdufus said:
Safe - Legal and Rare - that's where I would like to see abortion. It would help if these abstinece only idiots would go away! There is no evidence that this form of education is working. Abortions have gone UP under Bush's presidency.
That's why we have preventative measures that work 97-99.9% of the time...Don't want the baby, then protect yourself.
 

LaMidRighter

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hipsterdufus said:
Ditto on my vote. I would also add the DNA evidence has proven that people have been unjustly put to death. There's no overturning that.
But, on the flip side it has proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that some did it. Meaning in my own opinion that we have an even smaller margin of error.

Safe - Legal and Rare - that's where I would like to see abortion. It would help if these abstinece only idiots would go away! There is no evidence that this form of education is working. Abortions have gone UP under Bush's presidency.
Convenience abortions disgust me, but the unsafe abortion alternatives are worse. I think the only cases I totally agree with are rape and the health of the mother, however, in my long-winded way I agree with you.
 

Saboteur

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mixedmedia said:
I didn't vote, because my view on abortion is complicated. I believe abortion is ethically wrong. Birth control should be free and easy to obtain for all women and teen girls. I'm still on the fence with the "morning after pill" but it could possibly be very effective in reducing the abortion rate assuming it is free and easy to obtain. Perhaps then we could see the demand for abortions reduced to a manageable level, and then eventually stop the practice altogether.
But until such a time I see abortion as wrong but, with no practical alternatives, necessary.
I agree, abortion is not a great answer to an unwanted pregnancy. The morning after pill should be free, or at least an over the counter drug.

Unfortunately, corporations are allowing pharmacists to refuse filling a perscription of the pill if they don't support it's use. I think that by not filling the perscription they're doing more harm than good.
 

LaMidRighter

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Saboteur said:
Unfortunately, corporations are allowing pharmacists to refuse filling a perscription of the pill if they don't support it's use. I think that by not filling the perscription they're doing more harm than good.
I remember seeing a news release on the process of releasing new drugs into the American consumer market. The biggest obstacle seems to be the FDA itself, it requires ten years and billions of testing before a drugs release, the only way to deviate from said requirement is to get a release from the FDA, there was a drug, for example, that was meant for a particular type of cancer, the company wanted to test on terminal patients and couldn't get the release, I would think for those kinds of situations there should be some leniency, but this is what happens when a beuracracy gets too big.
 

aps

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I am pro-choice. While personally I would not want to have an abortion, I don't believe that I should have any say in what some other woman wants to do with the baby that is inside of her.

I am anti-death penalty because it is more expensive to have it in place and because I would rather be put to death then spend the rest of my life in jail, so I think life in prison is worse sentence.
 

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It is hypocritical to be anti death penalty and pro choice.......

On the one hand you want to spare the lives of murderers and rapists who have committed violent crimes.

On the other hand you want to murder and innocent baby in the womb who has committed no crime.............
 

Plain old me

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Navy Pride said:
It is hypocritical to be anti death penalty and pro choice.......

On the one hand you want to spare the lives of murderers and rapists who have committed violent crimes.

On the other hand you want to murder and innocent baby in the womb who has committed no crime.............
This argument doesn't hold water with me...a lot of people base their view of abortion on the idea that what is in the womb is not an 'innocent baby', and therefore is not being murdered. Whilst the person sentenced to death is DEFINATELY a living human being - the foetus quite possibly isn't.
 

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Plain old me said:
This argument doesn't hold water with me...a lot of people base their view of abortion on the idea that what is in the womb is not an 'innocent baby', and therefore is not being murdered. Whilst the person sentenced to death is DEFINATELY a living human being - the foetus quite possibly isn't.
And a lot of people believe that if a scum bag kills and mutilates somone that the perpertrator should pay the ultimate penalty......

As far as whether its a life or not that is yours and the liberal viewpoint so you can sleep better at night........What if you are wrong? Have you ever considered that? Never mind I already know the answer.....:roll:
 

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Navy Pride said:
It is hypocritical to be anti death penalty and pro choice.......

On the one hand you want to spare the lives of murderers and rapists who have committed violent crimes.

On the other hand you want to murder and innocent baby in the womb who has committed no crime.............
It is also hypocritical to be anti-abortion and pro-death penalty.
 
H

hipsterdufus

Hornburger said:
That's why we have preventative measures that work 97-99.9% of the time...Don't want the baby, then protect yourself.
Agreed - but that's not what the abstinence only education people are all about. No birth control - just don't have sex.

If anyone would like to share their stories of how abstinence worked/works for you, I would be interested to hear. :mrgreen:

Well - not really...
 

LaMidRighter

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mixedmedia said:
It is also hypocritical to be anti-abortion and pro-death penalty.
Not really. A fetus never intentionally killed anyone.
 
H

hipsterdufus

Navy Pride said:
And a lot of people believe that if a scum bag kills and mutilates somone that the perpertrator should pay the ultimate penalty......

As far as whether its a life or not that is yours and the liberal viewpoint so you can sleep better at night........What if you are wrong? Have you ever considered that? Never mind I already know the answer.....:roll:
How do you put the genie (abortion) back in the bottle?

When Roe v Wade is overturned it goes back to the states - people will go to states where abortion is legal.

If all that is overturned - the rich will leave the country for abortions and the poor will go to the back alleys.

As a man - I have a hard time interfearing with a woman's right to control her own body.

Sooner or later - science will get to the point where every fetus can be saved artificially. Then what?

Will the neo-cons fund that and the subsequent aftercare?
 

Navy Pride

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mixedmedia said:
It is also hypocritical to be anti-abortion and pro-death penalty.
Sorry but your wrong.......As I said already a person that is sentenced to death committed a horrendous capital crime.......

What Crime has a baby in the womb committed? Huge difference and nothing hypocritical about it.........
 

Navy Pride

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hipsterdufus said:
How do you put the genie (abortion) back in the bottle?

When Roe v Wade is overturned it goes back to the states - people will go to states where abortion is legal.

If all that is overturned - the rich will leave the country for abortions and the poor will go to the back alleys.

As a man - I have a hard time interfearing with a woman's right to control her own body.

Sooner or later - science will get to the point where every fetus can be saved artificially. Then what?

Will the neo-cons fund that and the subsequent aftercare?
If Roe V Wade is overturned and retuned to the states its a start........Prior to Roe V Wade being enacted there were aoproximately 10,000 abortions performed a year in this country....... Today there are 3,500 performed every day and over 40,000,000 since 1972.............

As far as the expenses involved in having a baby there are all kinds of churches and charities that would help with that........Catholic Serices come to mind.........
 

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I'm Pro-life and Pro-deathpenalty. (I accidently clicked the wrong option on the poll and put pro-choice, pro-penalty).
 

Saboteur

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LaMidRighter said:
I remember seeing a news release on the process of releasing new drugs into the American consumer market. The biggest obstacle seems to be the FDA itself, it requires ten years and billions of testing before a drugs release, the only way to deviate from said requirement is to get a release from the FDA, there was a drug, for example, that was meant for a particular type of cancer, the company wanted to test on terminal patients and couldn't get the release, I would think for those kinds of situations there should be some leniency, but this is what happens when a beuracracy gets too big.
I agree... too many cooks in the kitchen. But I think they did approve RU40 or a form of it but now the drug is meeting opposition from the people providing it for sale.
 

Saboteur

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Navy Pride said:
It is hypocritical to be anti death penalty and pro choice.......

On the one hand you want to spare the lives of murderers and rapists who have committed violent crimes.

On the other hand you want to murder and innocent baby in the womb who has committed no crime.............
I can see how one would feel that way. However there are people who are Pro-Life and Pro-Death penalty... Doesn't that fall under the same hypocricy?
 

mixedmedia

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LaMidRighter said:
Not really. A fetus never intentionally killed anyone.
But if you approve of the state ending the life of someone you are in fact approving of an intentional killing.
 
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