When You Bash "Socialist," "Liberal" or "Labor Organizations"

[biglawnmower]

lol...funny how you can't decide what the Soviets actually were. It's quite telling.

you mean the people that fought against nazis?

what do you call them?

comrades?

 

[Conaeolos]

Just so we are aware 100% of these standards predate the invention and implementation of capitalism. All these things exist where capitalism is weakest and the standards most common where it is strongest.

So I would argue it is capitalism not socialism that has brought these standards mostly through the creation of a plurality of wealth.

Are you saying that you are against the 8-hour work day?

I'll do you one better, I would be for a five hour 4 day work week. You know what would lead to that….capitalism and limited taxes though higher productivity, lower labour time demands, high skill requirements.

Are you saying you support child labor?

Previous to this most children simply died of starvation/poverty[still do in many parts of the world]. The ability to work and contribute to your family was a great opportunity. The fact most families now have the wealth and ability to support children from 0-23 in most case without them working is beautiful fruit of capitalism. If we go back though to were poor kids are dying in the streets of starvation because their parents are too poor to feed them - then yes in those circumstances I am for allowing kids who would like to earn their own living - the right and oppurtunity.

Are you against universal access to education?

I would argue the way most people are educated today does them a disservice, due in large part of "the universal right" . As for what pushed high literacy rates - that goes right back to capitalism and the creation of more jobs/oppurtunities for those with high literacy.

But let go ahead and slow that engine.

Are you against living wages via collective bargaining?

Living wages - no. Collective bargaining - yes.

In most unionized environments I am aware the cost problem is mostly management. This is however still a direct result of collective bargaining process as it attracts and maintains a certain type of management work culture [ bureaucratic ]. It also drives and encourages hostility by dividing the intreats of "labour" and interests of "corporate" divergent.

My biggest issue with unions though would be how they take money from working people and spend a lot on political causes with those collective funds that are not supported by those workers nor in their intrests.

So yes there have been some gains especially via fairer representation of worker received via unions. There are other positives too but nothing that wouldn't have come via other means . As for the net effect - most negative. Workers should have representation via ownership imho.

In terms of negativity seniority, for example, is a staple of a unionized environment. Seniority is a direct attack on meritocracy on which our success and wealth is created. You can't employ seniority and still have captialism. The engine of wealth and liberty.

 

[calamity]

you mean the people that fought against nazis?

what do you call them?

comrades?

No, Allies

The Allies of World War II, called the United Nations from the 1 January 1942 declaration, were the countries that together opposed the Axis powers during the Second World War (1939–1945). The Allies promoted the alliance as a means to control German, Japanese and Italian aggression.

...the name United Nations was rarely used to describe the Allies during the war. The leaders of the "Big Three"—the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom, and the United States—controlled Allied strategy; relations between the United Kingdom and the United States were especially close. The Big Three together with China were referred as a "trusteeship of the powerful",[2] then were recognized as the Allied "Big Four" in the Declaration by United Nations[3] and later as the "Four Policemen" of the United Nations. After the war ended, the Allied nations became the basis of the modern United Nations.

It's that history thing again. Something that is useful to know about. Of course, it helps to have access to free education. Otherwise, stuff like that gets forgotten or is never learned to begin with.

 

[calamity]

Just so we are aware 100% of these standards predate the invention and implementation of capitalism. All these things exist where capitalism is weakest and the standards most common where it is strongest.

So I would argue it is capitalism not socialism that has brought these standards mostly through the creation of a plurality of wealth.


I'll do you one better, I would be for a five hour 4 day work week. You know what would lead to that….capitalism and limited taxes though higher productivity, lower labour time demands, high skill requirements.



Previous to this most children simply died of starvation/poverty[still do in many parts of the world]. The ability to work and contribute to your family was a great opportunity. The fact most families now have the wealth and ability to support children from 0-23 in most case without them working is beautiful fruit of capitalism. If we go back though to were poor kids are dying in the streets of starvation because their parents are too poor to feed them - then yes in those circumstances I am for allowing kids who would like to earn their own living - the right and oppurtunity.
...

That last paragraph reminds me. Birth control; another ingenious action of the Left: universal access to effective birth control and reproductive rights.

 

[ludin]

US unions must be significantly different in function and operation than unions in Europe, if what you say is true.

yep they do.
which is why they have not helped themselves in membership over the years.

 

[Casca XV]

Do you really know what you are saying?

Are you saying that you are against the 8-hour work day?

Surely, you can't hate that.

Are you saying you support child labor?

Surely, you can't believe that eliminating child labor was a bad thing.

Are you against universal access to education?

Is that what you dislike, education for all children?

Are you against living wages via collective bargaining?

Maybe that's where the problem begins to creep in: "Income Distribution." Surely that is a combination of bad words for some people to cringe over.

Or, maybe too much clean air and water is a concern for some.


Although all of these bullet points make infinite sense, and although they were enacted by a conservative president, the Freedom gang can't stand them. Maybe that is because the whole idea of clean air and water sounds a wee bit too tree huggery for a real man.

I don't know what the problem is with socialist, liberal or labor, but I suspect it is rooted in people not really knowing what they are saying. What think you?

Leftist Ideology which includes Socialism, Progressive, Non-Classic Liberalism, etc has failed evey time it has ever been tried, and it's killed 200 million people.

It's the worst thing to ever happen to the human race.

Leftist fraudulently taking credit for solving Social Issues doesn't change these facts.

 

[calamity]

Leftist Ideology which includes Socialism, Progressive, Non-Classic Liberalism, etc has failed evey time it has ever been tried, and it's killed 200 million people.

It's the worst thing to ever happen to the human race.

Leftist fraudulently taking credit for solving Social Issues doesn't change these facts.

Oh look another "it's killed 200 million" exaggeration.

Where the hell do you people come up with this stuff? And, better still what does that have to do with 8-hr work days, child labor, higher wages and clean air and water?

 

[biglawnmower]

No, Allies



It's that history thing again. Something that is useful to know about. Of course, it helps to have access to free education. Otherwise, stuff like that gets forgotten or is never learned to begin with.

you know we also fought against the soviets too right...? please tell me you remember this if youre givin us a history lesson

 

[Neomalthusian]

Do you really know what you are saying?

Are you saying that you are against the 8-hour work day?

Surely, you can't hate that.

Are you saying you support child labor?

Surely, you can't believe that eliminating child labor was a bad thing.

Are you against universal access to education?

Is that what you dislike, education for all children?

This tired old argument again. Having supported a good cause that became law once upon a time does not entitle one to eternal political worship.

Are you against living wages via collective bargaining?

First of all "living wage" is ignorant rhetoric, and secondly, I oppose collective bargaining as it currently works for a handful of specific reasons. One is because our labor departments intentionally refuse to enforce Taft Hartley because they allow unions to engage in economic strikes while pretending they are "unfair labor practice strikes" so as to let them skirt the law. Fix that issue and my problem with unions diminishes. Require recertification elections every 5 years or less, and my problem with unions diminishes further.

 

[Renae]

Where do you guys get these numbers from? Every time I read this line of crap the number is higher. Gonna be over a billion if you get really excited in this thread, I bet.

It's somewhere in excess of 90-100 million verifiable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes

 

[Neomalthusian]

Do you really know what you are saying?

Are you saying that you are against the 8-hour work day?

Surely, you can't hate that.

Are you saying you support child labor?

Surely, you can't believe that eliminating child labor was a bad thing.

Are you against universal access to education?

Is that what you dislike, education for all children?

Are you against living wages via collective bargaining?

Maybe that's where the problem begins to creep in: "Income Distribution." Surely that is a combination of bad words for some people to cringe over.

Or, maybe too much clean air and water is a concern for some.

Although all of these bullet points make infinite sense, and although they were enacted by a conservative president, the Freedom gang can't stand them. Maybe that is because the whole idea of clean air and water sounds a wee bit too tree huggery for a real man.

I don't know what the problem is with socialist, liberal or labor, but I suspect it is rooted in people not really knowing what they are saying. What think you?

You want to see an example of why unions deserve to be bashed?

Despite Janus Ruling, Some Unions Still Forcing Public Workers to Pay Annual Dues - Reason

 

[poweRob]

Hey, I have an idea. How about you run around the South and ask your Republican friends down there what they think of Abe Lincoln, the father of the GOP. Get back to us with the results.

That bastard started the "Wohr of Nothern Agression!" Which is why the "solid south" conservatives voted for democrats for the next 100+ years.

 

[poweRob]

Are you sure? Democrats actively resurrected the kkk after the republicans crushed them nearly out of existence...

How 'The Birth of a Nation' Revived the Ku Klux Klan

"In just over three hours, D.W. Griffith’s controversial epic film about the Civil War and Reconstruction depicted the Ku Klux Klan as valiant saviors of a post-war South ravaged by Northern carpetbaggers and immoral freed blacks. The film was an instant blockbuster. And with innovative cinematography and a Confederate-skewed point of view, TheBirth of a Nation also helped rekindle the KKK."

"Adapted from the book The Clansman by Thomas Dixon Jr., who was a classmate and friend of President Woodrow Wilson, The Birth of a Nation portrayed Reconstruction as catastrophic. It showed Radical Republicans encouraging equality for blacks, who in the film are represented as uncouth, intellectually inferior and predators of white women. And this racist narrative was widely accepted as historical fact."

Democrats seem to be all in.

More accurately, conservatives resurrected the KKK after the progressives crushed them nearly out of existence.

 

[poweRob]

Oh look another "it's killed 200 million" exaggeration.

Where the hell do you people come up with this stuff?

Alex Jones.

 

[poweRob]

Leftist Ideology which includes Socialism, Progressive, Non-Classic Liberalism, etc has failed evey time it has ever been tried, and it's killed 200 million people.

It's the worst thing to ever happen to the human race.

Leftist fraudulently taking credit for solving Social Issues doesn't change these facts.

What do you consider most of Europe these days? Libertarianism?

 

[poweRob]

Oh look another "it's killed 200 million" exaggeration.

Where the hell do you people come up with this stuff? And, better still what does that have to do with 8-hr work days, child labor, higher wages and clean air and water?

Sorry clam... I don't think you are going to get an answer to any of your questions out of any RWinger today. Just diversions.

 

[Grand Mal]

More accurately, conservatives resurrected the KKK after the progressives crushed them nearly out of existence.

Everything started over from the beginning when Trump was elected, therefore there never were any conservatives in the Democratic Party. No liberals in the Republican Party either, so neither George Wallace nor Nelson Rockefeller ever existed.

 

[poweRob]

Everything started over from the beginning when Trump was elected, therefore there never were any conservatives in the Democratic Party. No liberals in the Republican Party either, so neither George Wallace nor Nelson Rockefeller ever existed.

Everything is about labels with these people. They label something, then attack the label. Words don't have real meaning anymore because they are at war with the dictionary. And history. And science. And reality because it doesn't exist in the nutjob conspiracy theory world they'd rather live in.

 

[Casca XV]

Oh look another "it's killed 200 million" exaggeration.

Where the hell do you people come up with this stuff? And, better still what does that have to do with 8-hr work days, child labor, higher wages and clean air and water?

From the body counts of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot.

We get 180 million without even including Hitler who, as you as you have been educate on, was also a Leftist just like you.

 

[poweRob]

From the body counts of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot.

We get 180 million without even including Hitler who, as you as you have been educate on, was also a Leftist just like you.

Case and point

 

[Casca XV]

Everything is about labels with these people. They label something, then attack the label. Words don't have real meaning anymore because they are at war with the dictionary. And history. And science. And reality because it doesn't exist in the nutjob conspiracy theory world they'd rather live in.

About your quote: According the Federal Prisons Classification there is at least an 85% chance that any pedophile will describe themselves as being Left leaning.

 

[Grand Mal]

From the body counts of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot.

We get 180 million without even including Hitler who, as you as you have been educate on, was also a Leftist just like you.

That's right, Hitler was a leftist because 'national socialist'. He was gay, too- that's why the first people they sent to the concentration camps were gays and socialists.

 

[poweRob]

About your quote: According the Federal Prisons Classification there is at least an 85% chance that any pedophile will describe themselves as being Left leaning.

Somebody let me know when this guy makes any sense. I have to stop reading his crap for a bit. I think I just had a brain cell die after his last three posts.

 

[calamity]

you know we also fought against the soviets too right...? please tell me you remember this if youre givin us a history lesson

In WW2? What version of History are you referring to?

 

[calamity]

That's right, Hitler was a leftist because 'national socialist'. He was gay, too- that's why the first people they sent to the concentration camps were gays and socialists.

Amazing stuff they learn wherever it is they go to learn this alternative history stuff. I'm pretty sure that someone up there is actually arguing that we fought against the Russians during WW2. I suspect this is a result of graduating from Palin's School of Real Americans