When woke ideology means it's okay to embarrass your students

[Superfly]

This is where you went off track, no doubt the coffee hadn't yet kicked in.

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I said "you'd probably do less harm" as in "you would do less harm if you were a sleep rather than awake and advocating for woke policies." The contraction for "you would" escaped you, and your question in response "What harm have I done" is the indication you thought I meant "you have done more harm advocating for woke policies." In short, my statement was conditional, and you missed it.

Maybe an espresso shot would help?

Nope. You assumed I'd do harm advocating for "woke policies." I asked you what harm I had done.

You still haven't answered me.

I'm still waiting.

What harm would I do advocating for woke policies? Because you are incorrectly assuming I advocate for "woke" policies, whatever the **** "woke policies" are.

Now are we going to continue this, or are you going to tell me what harm I have done in advocating for woke policies?

This is the last time I'll ask, because clearly you're struggling to come up with an answer. You just keep circling around and around, and saying ****-all.

 

[RAMOSS]

Why do you think the source provided is invalid? (Other than, of course, it doesn't jibe with what you want to have happened.)

Highly biased for one. The entire name of the web site shows at attempt to mock liberals, and therefore is putting a biased spin on it.

Why have you not learned to vet sources? Why do you use a source that is designed to mock liberals in a derogatory manner? That should embarrass you.

And, for that matter, since you asked.

Libs of TikTok - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[NatMorton]

Nope. You assumed I'd do harm advocating for "woke policies." I asked you what harm I had done.

Now you're just making shite up. My word choice was clear; I said "you'd" as in "you would if," conditional, not accusatory.

Why so paranoid?

And to further support my point, a follow on post of mine made the conditional part of my post clear; emphasis added:

I believe "woke" public policy, such as "defund the police," causes material harm to the public. One would do more good for society sleeping in than they would advocating for such policies.

Conditional, not an accusation.

Having fun, yet?

 

[NatMorton]

Highly biased for one. The entire name of the web site shows at attempt to mock liberals, and therefore is putting a biased spin on it.

You're confused. It doesn't mock liberals. It presents them literally in their own words. That's its charm: liberals making a mockery of themselves.

Why have you not learned to vet sources? Why do you use a source that is designed to mock liberals in a derogatory manner? That should embarrass you.

If you have a source that refutes the claims this parent made, by all means, let's see it. Do you?

 

[RAMOSS]

You're confused. It doesn't mock liberals. It presents them literally in their own words. That's its charm: liberals making a mockery of themselves.


If you have a source that refutes the claims this parent made, by all means, let's see it. Do you?

Ah, now you are shifting the burden of proof. You lie, then you shift the burden of proof. I gave a source it mocks them, so, you have to refute that first.

This OP is really a big failure in trying to promote the propaganda it is supposed to embrace.

 

[NatMorton]

Ah, now you are shifting the burden of proof. You lie, then you shift the burden of proof. I gave a source it mocks them, so, you have to refute that first.

This OP is really a big failure in trying to promote the propaganda it is supposed to embrace.

It's only a failure if one buys into your poisoning the well fallacy, and I don't.

You haven't provided a single piece of evidence to prove that that exercise was not performed in that school and as this parent describes. If and when you get some, let us know. Otherwise you've got nothing but hot air.

 

[RAMOSS]

It's only a failure if one buys into your poisoning the well fallacy, and I don't.

You haven't provided a single piece of evidence to prove that that exercise was not performed in that school and as this parent describes. If and when you get some, let us know. Otherwise you've got nothing but hot air.

I don't have to, because the source you used was .. well, total and utter nonsense.

That which is claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

 

[NatMorton]

I don't have to, because the source you used was .. well, total and utter nonsense.

That which is claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Again, your use of fallacy doesn't make for a successful argument. My suggestion to you is to save it for the echo chamber. It's not going to cut it here.

 

[RAMOSS]

Again, your use of fallacy doesn't make for a successful argument. My suggestion to you is to save it for the echo chamber. It's not going to cut it here.

No echo chamber, just the point that you didn't support your claim with a source that is valid. The claim about 'echo chamber' is highly ironic, considering the use of a hate site to promote the original claim.

The Hate-Fueled and Hugely Influential World of Libs of TikTok

She holds an especially pronounced animosity toward LGBTQ people, city dwellers, and Black people who have been killed at the hands of police.

slate.com

 

[NatMorton]

No echo chamber, just the point that you didn't support your claim with a source that is valid. The claim about 'echo chamber' is highly ironic, considering the use of a hate site to promote the original claim.

The Hate-Fueled and Hugely Influential World of Libs of TikTok

She holds an especially pronounced animosity toward LGBTQ people, city dwellers, and Black people who have been killed at the hands of police.

slate.com

Now that is funny. To prove to me that LibsOfTikTok does not present accurate information and that you're not pulling that idea from the echo chamber you quote ... (it's hard to type as I laugh) ... Slate!



Now that's a fail.

 

[noonereal]

This teacher should be fired, and in a rationally run school system that had to earn its students enrollment, they would be. What will actually happen here is anyone's guess.

13-year-old students separated in class according to their privilege

An embarrassed group of "disadvantaged" students was moved to the back of the room to symbolize victimhood while the more "privileged" students were positioned up front.

www.libsoftiktok.com

What happened?

 

[RAMOSS]

Again, your use of fallacy doesn't make for a successful argument. My suggestion to you is to save it for the echo chamber. It's not going to cut it here.

No echo chamber, just the point that you didn't support your claim with a source that is valid. The claim about 'echo chamber' is highly ironic, cons

The libs of tik tok is just a hate site. It is anti-gay and anti-black.

 

[NatMorton]

The libs of tik tok is just a hate site. It is anti-gay and anti-black.

I don't think it's fair to judge LibsOfTickTok from her site's content seeing as that content is almost exclusively members of the far left speaking their minds and in their own words. To the extent it's anti-gay and anti-black, that's on the libs.

Like, for example, would you consider LibsOfTickTok as being anti-gay or anti-trans for posting this?

 

[RAMOSS]

I don't think it's fair to judge LibsOfTickTok from her site's content seeing as that content is almost exclusively members of the far left speaking their minds and in their own words. To the extent it's anti-gay and anti-black, that's on the libs.

Like, for example, would you consider LibsOfTickTok as being anti-gay or anti-trans for posting this?

Dosen't matter one bit. Not one frigging bit. The fact you attempting to defend them indicates a lot.

 

[NatMorton]

Dosen't matter one bit. Not one frigging bit. The fact you attempting to defend them indicates a lot.

I believe that by facilitating widespread attention to their video posts Libs' has helped at least several public school teachers move on to the next phase of their working lives, and isn't that a good thing?

 

[RAMOSS]

I believe that by facilitating widespread attention to their video posts Libs' has helped at least several public school teachers move on to the next phase of their working lives, and isn't that a good thing?

So, you think doxing people because they are gay is a good thing. How nice.

 

[NatMorton]

So, you think doxing people because they are gay is a good thing. How nice.

Who was doxed?

 

[roguenuke]

I think many here have forgotten what it’s like to be 13, and the embarrassment of being poor or from a single parent family. Those that don’t get why the kids would be embarrassed and upset, probably never had to worry about any of that.

On the contrary, I was very poor growing up. Answering those questions though wouldn't be embarrassing to me, especially not nearly as embarrassing as having teachers tell me I couldn't be in band because my parents had poor credit or asking me in front of a cafeteria full of students why I wasn't eating lunch that day after someone had stolen my lunch money, before we got the approval for free lunch, having just moved into that school. Knowing that my uncle (by marriage, but still) had shot at people in our neighborhood simply because they were black and disrespected him. Then there was getting punched in the back of the head as I got off the bus, then having the vice principal tell me that I must have done something to the girl who did it, because why else would she hit me.

But no, please tell us all how embarrassing answering those fairly general questions would be, especially for kids who aren't really all that poor. I read them. They weren't really that bad compared to most things that poor, disadvantaged kids have to deal with, put up with pretty much every day in school.

 

[roguenuke]

It was embarrassing to not have as much or dress in the latest as your classmates, or wait in line for free lunch. Being made fun of is never not embarrassing to a 13 year old. Of course it wasn’t my fault and I get that now. I think many of you forgot what it’s like to be that age and trying to fit in.

We didn't have free lunch lines in our school. Everyone went/goes through the same lunch lines.

I didn't forget it at all. I'm saying that this isn't anything. This is a conservative parent looking for something to complain about and using her kids as an excuse to do it.

 

[holbritter]

We didn't have free lunch lines in our school. Everyone went/goes through the same lunch lines.

I didn't forget it at all. I'm saying that this isn't anything. This is a conservative parent looking for something to complain about and using her kids as an excuse to do it.

Isn't anything to YOU. Get that? Just because it wouldn't embarrass YOU (because, I don't know, you're so much better?) doesn't mean it didn't shame the hell out of someone else, and if it does to just one student, it shouldn't be done.

Glad your school didn't have free lunch lines, but again, that doesn't mean every school didn't.

But no, please tell us all how embarrassing answering those fairly general questions would be, especially for kids who aren't really all that poor. I read them. They weren't really that bad compared to most things that poor, disadvantaged kids have to deal with, put up with pretty much every day in school.

Seriously? So because YOU wouldn't be embarrassed, **** the other kids? Shameful.

 

[The Mark]

This teacher should be fired, and in a rationally run school system that had to earn its students enrollment, they would be. What will actually happen here is anyone's guess.

13-year-old students separated in class according to their privilege

An embarrassed group of "disadvantaged" students was moved to the back of the room to symbolize victimhood while the more "privileged" students were positioned up front.

www.libsoftiktok.com

Without reading the article, it sounds like someone saw a video they thought was cool and tried to apply it IRL without (IMO) sufficient understanding/prep.

Edit: after reading the article, not enough information to change or confirm my first impression.

 

[roguenuke]

Isn't anything to YOU. Get that? Just because it wouldn't embarrass YOU (because, I don't know, you're so much better?) doesn't mean it didn't shame the hell out of someone else, and if it does to just one student, it shouldn't be done.

Glad your school didn't have free lunch lines, but again, that doesn't mean every school didn't.


Seriously? So because YOU wouldn't be embarrassed, **** the other kids? Shameful.

You are talking about basing lessons though off what might embarrass someone without any evidence it is likely to do so. A lesson about Romeo and Juliet might embarrass a student. Calling out students, forcing them to talk during class, answer questions may very well embarrass students.

Most schools don't, at least not now.

I don't see this as likely to embarrass anyone, legitimately.

 

[Groogrux]

Its not political. Its addressing a social problem by highlighting it in that way that students likely never understood. To fix a problem first you need to admit/understand that it exists.

What is your problem with teaching about social inequality? Are we just supposed to ignore that it exists? Do you also not want to teach about history?


That doesn't mean that there isn't serious a racial problem in the US. The fact that you want to ignore it or refuse to address those racial problems tells me all that I n need to know about your support of racism.

Who did she embarrass and how did she do that? She was trying to illustrates the gap between the have and the have-nots. Is that embarrassing to you? Many people are born with an advantage because of generational money, education, name or skin color. Other people have to overcome those obstacles of not having those advantages. Is teaching that fact a problem for you?

It still exists and it cannot be ignored. Or do you want to pat yourself on the back and ignore the problems because they were worse in the past?

There SHOULD be a gap in the have and have nots in a non-Communist nation.

 

[Lisa]

There SHOULD be a gap in the have and have nots in a non-Communist nation.

Why should there be a gap?

 

[holbritter]

You are talking about basing lessons though off what might embarrass someone without any evidence it is likely to do so. A lesson about Romeo and Juliet might embarrass a student. Calling out students, forcing them to talk during class, answer questions may very well embarrass students.

Most schools don't, at least not now.

I don't see this as likely to embarrass anyone, legitimately.

Good for you.