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When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into families?

Einzige

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I meant to post "family structures", as even the most dispossessed homosexual has a biological family, but I reached the cut-off point.

My question is pretty simple: how long will it take until socially conservative mass movements, no longer strictly bound to the Baby Boomer literalist evangelism that has defined them for four decades, accept gay marriage (and a gay family unit that exists in precisely mirrored fashion to the heterosexual family) as part of their rhetoric?

This isn't merely an unprincipled concession to political reality, but would allow them to continue to disparage promiscuous "fast-lane gays" and to preserve the form of monogamy as the basis for collectively-sanctioned relationships.

(I meant to include a poll with this post but apparently cannot do so from this phone.)
 

Gaugingcatenate

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

I meant to post "family structures", as even the most dispossessed homosexual has a biological family, but I reached the cut-off point.

My question is pretty simple: how long will it take until socially conservative mass movements, no longer strictly bound to the Baby Boomer literalist evangelism that has defined them for four decades, accept gay marriage (and a gay family unit that exists in precisely mirrored fashion to the heterosexual family) as part of their rhetoric?

This isn't merely an unprincipled concession to political reality, but would allow them to continue to disparage promiscuous "fast-lane gays" and to preserve the form of monogamy as the basis for collectively-sanctioned relationships.

(I meant to include a poll with this post but apparently cannot do so from this phone.)
So, what you are really asking is how long is it until we have total anarchy? How long until nobody gives a damn about anything at all anymore?
 

Boo Radley

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

So, what you are really asking is how long is it until we have total anarchy? How long until nobody gives a damn about anything at all anymore?
No, that's not what he said. Not at all. So try addressing what he actually said.

We could use an actual poll he btw.
 

Einzige

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

So, what you are really asking is how long is it until we have total anarchy? How long until nobody gives a damn about anything at all anymore?
Unfortunately, the old gay liberationists/ActUP/queer politics folks of the 1970s through the 1990s have conceded defeat. All they want now is to get married and grow conservative. No anarchy to be had, alas.
 

Gaugingcatenate

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

No, that's not what he said. Not at all. So try addressing what he actually said.

We could use an actual poll he btw.
Its a silly question, why address what he actually says when he is only looking for a certain response and a certain type of respondent...?? I am not in either of those categories, so I am telling you what the reality of that means if that were to ever happen, whether you wanna hear it or not....

We straight on all that Boo...uh, sorry, probably not the best way to ask that on this thread....ha ha ha haha
 

ChezC3

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

I meant to post "family structures", as even the most dispossessed homosexual has a biological family, but I reached the cut-off point.

My question is pretty simple: how long will it take until socially conservative mass movements, no longer strictly bound to the Baby Boomer literalist evangelism that has defined them for four decades, accept gay marriage (and a gay family unit that exists in precisely mirrored fashion to the heterosexual family) as part of their rhetoric?

This isn't merely an unprincipled concession to political reality, but would allow them to continue to disparage promiscuous "fast-lane gays" and to preserve the form of monogamy as the basis for collectively-sanctioned relationships.

(I meant to include a poll with this post but apparently cannot do so from this phone.)
Your question takes liberty in presuming an inevitable certainty. Why? Further, what steps do you suggest be taken should social conservatives decide NOT to conform with this new "anything goes in the name of love" ideology? Further still and finally, do you feel it necessary to demand such acceptance and what steps would you be willing to take to ensure it?

One more question, apologies for the fib, in demanding such acceptance do you not feel it an encroachment on their most fundamental liberty --their freedom of conscience, and would you seek to discriminate against them should they not loosen up to the ideas put forth which many will always find unacceptable?
 

Aunt Spiker

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

I meant to post "family structures", as even the most dispossessed homosexual has a biological family, but I reached the cut-off point.

My question is pretty simple: how long will it take until socially conservative mass movements, no longer strictly bound to the Baby Boomer literalist evangelism that has defined them for four decades, accept gay marriage (and a gay family unit that exists in precisely mirrored fashion to the heterosexual family) as part of their rhetoric?

This isn't merely an unprincipled concession to political reality, but would allow them to continue to disparage promiscuous "fast-lane gays" and to preserve the form of monogamy as the basis for collectively-sanctioned relationships.

(I meant to include a poll with this post but apparently cannot do so from this phone.)
Hmm - 'reorienting gays into families' is different than 'accepting that gay people marry / have kids' - one suggests that those who are gay are within the family . . . the other is accepting that people outside the family have a life which they oppose.

To both: some will - some won't see gay members of a familiar as a 'complete part of the family' - there will never be 100% acceptance.

They will never have it as 'part of the rhetoric' either. . . that's a strong change.
 

Hatuey

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

Guys, if your life's structure is so fragile that two dudes legally being able to leave each other property will destroy it, you have a serious chicken little complex.
 

Gaugingcatenate

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

Unfortunately, the old gay liberationists/ActUP/queer politics folks of the 1970s through the 1990s have conceded defeat. All they want now is to get married and grow conservative. No anarchy to be had, alas.
Yeah, why don't you just take all that anarchy, all that "destroy the good in this world" angst to another planet...thinking maybe the seventh planet from the sun might just the ideal spot, the place to be for young gay anarchists...
 

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

Guys, if your life's structure is so fragile that two dudes legally being able to leave each other property will destroy it, you have a serious chicken little complex.
Heh - this make me wonder if it would matter when it comes to 'lesbians' as that's already more socially acceptable to many people.
 

Gaugingcatenate

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

Guys, if your life's structure is so fragile that two dudes legally being able to leave each other property will destroy it, you have a serious chicken little complex.
Dude, nobody ever stopped anybody from legally being able to leave each other property. It is called a will. So we have to change all society so that those who seem not to know about wills can leave property to one another? Sheesh.....I say if they cannot negotiate life as it is, too bad.
 

Boo Radley

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

Its a silly question, why address what he actually says when he is only looking for a certain response and a certain type of respondent...?? I am not in either of those categories, so I am telling you what the reality of that means if that were to ever happen, whether you wanna hear it or not....

We straight on all that Boo...uh, sorry, probably not the best way to ask that on this thread....ha ha ha haha
If you think it's a silly question, you can do many things, including ignoring it. But when you misrepresent what it said, that makes you look foolish and not him. Besides, what you said is hardly reality.

Are we clear on that?
 

Hatuey

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

Heh - this make me wonder if it would matter when it comes to 'lesbians' as that's already more socially acceptable to many people.
Conservative men don't have a problem with lesbians. They jerk off to that **** just like every other straight man does. The ones that say they don't are bull****ting themselves. It's the male homos they seem to have trouble with. Two men? Putting things in each other? Icky.
 

Hatuey

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

Dude, nobody ever stopped anybody from legally being able to leave each other property. It is called a will.
Actually, that is untrue. Property comes in more forms than a house you know. A gay person who's partner has died in an accident can't make a wrongful death claim. They can't draw the SS of that partner either. They also do not automatically inherit their partner's property. All things which straight couples do not need to write into a will in order for it to take effect.

So we have to change all society so that those who seem not to know about wills can leave property to one another? Sheesh.....I say if they cannot negotiate life as it is, too bad.
No. We really don't. We just have to recognize their unions as equal to ours. You're going to have to come up with a lot of information in order to support the claim that recognizing a marriage will change the entire bureaucratic structure and a even more to make the claim that it will change society. How did biracial marriages change society? They didn't. How did inter-religious marriages change society? They didn't. "Gay marriage" won't change it either. It'll simply be one more recognized type of marriage.
 

Gaugingcatenate

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

If you think it's a silly question, you can do many things, including ignoring it. But when you misrepresent what it said, that makes you look foolish and not him. Besides, what you said is hardly reality.

Are we clear on that?
My view is certainly not his reality nor, apparently, yours... you want change, the type of change history informs is not a good direction for humanity. This is a free country still, I am allowed and will speak my mind on such matters as I see fit and " you can do many things, including ignoring it."

I did not misrepresent what he said, I interpreted to what I see it to mean, and what I think will be the future if what he wants comes about. Sorry, but too bad if you do not like it.

I am clear on mine, you clear on yours?
 

rjay

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

Dude, nobody ever stopped anybody from legally being able to leave each other property. It is called a will. So we have to change all society so that those who seem not to know about wills can leave property to one another? Sheesh.....I say if they cannot negotiate life as it is, too bad.
Changing all of society would mean requiring all married couple to have wills, should they want to leave their possesions to their spouse.
What is being proposed is not changing all of society, it is allowing more couples to be apart of society. I do appreciate your empathetic outllook though. I can only assume you are not Christian.
 

apdst

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

When are the Libbos going to stop trying to force their beliefs on everyone else? Why not just shutup about it and let people come around on their own; the end result of that might be much more to your liking.
 

apdst

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

Guys, if your life's structure is so fragile that two dudes legally being able to leave each other property will destroy it, you have a serious chicken little complex.
You don't have to married to do that.
 

Morality Games

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

When are the Libbos going to stop trying to force their beliefs on everyone else? Why not just shutup about it and let people come around on their own; the end result of that might be much more to your liking.
The premise of the OP was patronizing (although probably not inaccurate), but there was no call for force.
 

Hatuey

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

You don't have to married to do that.
I already explained why they do have to be married. Straight couples that are married are expected to leave each other property so no will is required. Gay couples do not have the same protections if a partner suddenly dies.
 

Boo Radley

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

My view is certainly not his reality nor, apparently, yours... you want change, the type of change history informs is not a good direction for humanity. This is a free country still, I am allowed and will speak my mind on such matters as I see fit and " you can do many things, including ignoring it."

I did not misrepresent what he said, I interpreted to what I see it to mean, and what I think will be the future if what he wants comes about. Sorry, but too bad if you do not like it.

I am clear on mine, you clear on yours?
What you said isn't reality at all.

And yes you're free to speak, no matter how ignorant the speaking is, and no one says otherwise. However, everyone is free to tell you just how wrong you are. It's how it works.
 

apdst

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

The premise of the OP was patronizing (although probably not inaccurate), but there was no call for force.
I used "force" for lack of a better word. Perhaps, "push", would be better? Whatever word you prefer, it doesn't change the fact, that Libbos love to browbeat the crap out of anyone that doesn't think the same way they do.

It goes to show just how out of touch Libbos are with mainstream America; you can't try and MAKE Americans do something and expect a perfect outcome. If anything, it will induce them to resist even harder.
 

Gaugingcatenate

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

Actually, that is untrue. Property comes in more forms than a house you know. A gay person who's partner has died in an accident can't make a wrongful death claim. They can't draw the SS of that partner either. They also do not automatically inherit their partner's property. All things which straight couples do not need to write into a will in order for it to take effect.
What I said was absolutely true, now you are bringing up a completely different scenario and I think you know it and knew it when you typed that.

If you want the benefits of the tolerance we are willing to extend, blessings... if you want to foist upon us a system we know for sure that we do not want...well, you get what you get.


No. We really don't. We just have to recognize their unions as equal to ours. You're going to have to come up with a lot of information in order to support the claim that recognizing a marriage will change the entire bureaucratic structure and a even more to make the claim that it will change society. How did biracial marriages change society? They didn't. How did inter-religious marriages change society? They didn't. "Gay marriage" won't change it either. It'll simply be one more recognized type of marriage.
We do not have to do anything of the sort. I do not recognise them as equal, nor will they ever be, sorry. I am not going to lie, am not going to just bow to that whim either. The marriages you referenced were all between one man and one woman... you have no idea what your system that you say does no damage will do...not one iota of information but yet we are just to go ahead and do it because who, you? say its fine? It is screwing up kids minds right now, all this confusion you folk sew, all the misery so that a few can be content for a few moments... sorry, your gimme gimmee I want I want childishness of your political persuasion has to grow up someday.

This is that day.
 

Einzige

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

When are the Libbos going to stop trying to force their beliefs on everyone else? Why not just shutup about it and let people come around on their own; the end result of that might be much more to your liking.
I see that social conservatives in this thread are deliberately misrepresenting my position, which is: that it would be more profitable, both politically and programmatically, for social conservatives to emphasize a monogamous relationship structure for straights and gays alike, and to fight promiscuity by both, than to continue trying to exclude one from the family social form.
 

apdst

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Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

I already explained why they do have to be married. Straight couples that are married are expected to leave each other property so no will is required. Gay couples do not have the same protections if a partner suddenly dies.
In Louisiana, no married couple--gay or straight--has that protection. A will is still required to leave your spouse your belongings; otherwise, it goes directly to your kids.
 
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