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When was Z advised to not follow?

ecofarm

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I see and hear people commenting to the effect of: "Z left his vehicle after being advised not to follow". Is that true? It seems Z was already outside his vehicle when he was advised that following was not necessary.

I presume there is a timeline, stamped by the phone line itself, that tells us when he was so advised. Was he out of the vehicle already? Is there physical evidence that he was returning to his vehicle (or doing something else) after being advised so?

As we have a few 'experts' here at DP, I thought I'd ask you guys instead of digging through all the crap about this via google/etc.
 

MaggieD

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I see and hear people commenting to the effect of: "Z left his vehicle after being advised not to follow". Is that true? It seems Z was already outside his vehicle when he was advised that following was not necessary.

I presume there is a timeline, stamped by the phone line itself, that tells us when he was so advised. Was he out of the vehicle already? Is there physical evidence that he was returning to his vehicle (or doing something else) after being advised so?

As we have a few 'experts' here at DP, I thought I'd ask you guys instead of digging through all the crap about this via google/etc.
Paraphrased:

Dispatcher: "Are you following him?"
Zimmerman: "Yeah."
Dispatcher: "Okay, we don't need you to do that."
Zimmerman: "Okay.
 

Grim17

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Paraphrased:

Dispatcher: "Are you following him?"
Zimmerman: "Yeah."
Dispatcher: "Okay, we don't need you to do that."
Zimmerman: "Okay.
Continuing from there, he was already on the sidewalk heading east toward RV circle... He claims that he went there and after ending his call with police headed west on that sidewalk back to his truck... That's his claim, and the evidence indicated the confrontation took place on that sidewalk.
 

ecofarm

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Continuing from there, he was already on the sidewalk heading east toward RV circle... He claims that he went there and after ending his call with police headed west on that sidewalk back to his truck... That's his claim, and the evidence indicated the confrontation took place on that sidewalk.
After he said "okay", he continued to walk away from his vehicle (for how many meters and minutes?) and then headed back to his vehicle?

I don't know the significance of west/east.

Was the "okay" the end of the call?
 

WCH

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I see and hear people commenting to the effect of: "Z left his vehicle after being advised not to follow". Is that true? It seems Z was already outside his vehicle when he was advised that following was not necessary.

I presume there is a timeline, stamped by the phone line itself, that tells us when he was so advised. Was he out of the vehicle already? Is there physical evidence that he was returning to his vehicle (or doing something else) after being advised so?

As we have a few 'experts' here at DP, I thought I'd ask you guys instead of digging through all the crap about this via google/etc.
He had already left his vehicle but, THAT DIDN'T FOLLOW the STATE'S NARRATIVE or apparently all of those who chose to either ignore it or believe their celeb Twitter buddies.
 

Grim17

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Continuing from there, he was already on the sidewalk heading east toward RV circle... He claims that he went there and after ending his call with police headed west on that sidewalk back to his truck... That's his claim, and the evidence indicated the confrontation took place on that sidewalk.
That right there indicates something to me, that I'm sure wasn't overlooked by the jury... Martin ran east on that sidewalk, then turned right at the "T" and headed south in the direction of his fathers place out of Zimmerman's sight. Zimmerman however, traveled east and west on that sidewalk, and there is no evidence that he ever headed south in the direction Martin had ran off in...

The conclusion based on the evidence is, that Zimmerman was not pursuing Martin leading up to the confrontation and Martin had to have turned around at some point and came back toward Zimmerman. That means it was Martin's actions that lead to the confrontation and in all likelihood, was the one who initiated it.
 

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I see and hear people commenting to the effect of: "Z left his vehicle after being advised not to follow". Is that true? It seems Z was already outside his vehicle when he was advised that following was not necessary.

I presume there is a timeline, stamped by the phone line itself, that tells us when he was so advised. Was he out of the vehicle already? Is there physical evidence that he was returning to his vehicle (or doing something else) after being advised so?

As we have a few 'experts' here at DP, I thought I'd ask you guys instead of digging through all the crap about this via google/etc.
This, to me, was the un-smoking gun dropped by the defense in closing. I talked to to so many of my liberal friends over the weekend and this is the 'linchpin" of their argument. "Zimmarman was stalking Martin and this proves it. After he was told by the cops not to follow him he kept doing it". I pointed out that there was no evidence that that thappened.
They just aren't having any of it.
 

Grim17

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After he said "okay", he continued to walk away from his vehicle (for how many meters and minutes?) and then headed back to his vehicle?

I don't know the significance of west/east.

Was the "okay" the end of the call?
My Google Earth isn't coming up for some reason and I don't have time atm to do anything about it... I have to leave for a business meeting in 30 minutes.

If that isn't answered by the time I return, I will get them for you..

I will say this... I wasn't clear on where he exactly was when the "we don't need you to do that" was said by the dispatcher.
 

ecofarm

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Dispatchers orders dont mean squat.
Was it a dispatcher? I'd think an actual dispatcher is busy talking to police and not people on the phone. Was it not a NEN operator?
 

ecofarm

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Thread bump.
 

Grim17

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After he said "okay", he continued to walk away from his vehicle (for how many meters and minutes?) and then headed back to his vehicle?

I don't know the significance of west/east.

Was the "okay" the end of the call?
As I promised, here you go...

Z_timemap.jpg
 

dnsmith

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This, to me, was the un-smoking gun dropped by the defense in closing. I talked to to so many of my liberal friends over the weekend and this is the 'linchpin" of their argument. "Zimmarman was stalking Martin and this proves it. After he was told by the cops not to follow him he kept doing it". I pointed out that there was no evidence that that thappened.
They just aren't having any of it.
Even if he was told by police that he should not "follow/confront" the stranger in the strange place, neighborhood watch members are taught to continue to observe anything out of the ordinary. Was Martin out of the ordinary? Did he meet the expectations/resemblance of known residents in the area? There are a lot of questions the anti-Zimmerman folks don't/can't answer. What seems clear cut to some, is far from it to those who are neighborhood watch participants.

In my first experience as a watch person I recall getting very jittery when seeing a strange person walking in my neighborhood. The individual turned out to be the brother of a neighbor, but based on our training observing him was part of the job.
 

ecofarm

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Did that answer the questions you had, or was there something else?
I'm still wondering about the "dispatcher". It seems to me that actual dispatchers talk to cops and not people on the phone. Wasn't it a NEN operator?
 

Grim17

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I'm still wondering about the "dispatcher". It seems to me that actual dispatchers talk to cops and not people on the phone. Wasn't it a NEN operator?
Yes... I used the word dispatcher and that is not exactly correct.
 

ecofarm

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Yes... I used the word dispatcher and that is not exactly correct.
I didn't just mean you. I see it in articles on CNN and most people refer to the person on the phone with Z as a "dispatcher".

So... it was not a dispatcher and was, actually, a NEN operator?
 

Grim17

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I didn't just mean you. I see it in articles on CNN and most people refer to the person on the phone with Z as a "dispatcher".

So... it was not a dispatcher and was, actually, a NEN operator?
I don't see how that makes a difference though?
 

ecofarm

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I don't see how that makes a difference though?
Here is the level of authority that I, and probably most, would assume exists, 1. being the most authoritative:

1. Dispatcher. This person is presumably a cop. Maybe they are not cops (are they?), but they spend there day directing cops in their 'language' and dealing with real life emergencies and life-threatening danger. I'm pretty sure they do not talk on the phone with people, they only talk with cops in action.

2. 911 operator. This person is not a cop, for sure, and has obviously no real authority. Their advice, however, is probably of some experience.

3. Non-Emergency Operator. This person basically just answers the phone and records complaints. The person is definitely not a cop and presumably has experience only in complaint recording. The level of authority is laughable.


If the person on the phone was 3., why do we refer to him/her as 1. ?
 

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Dispatchers in Florida are not Sworn LEO's. they do answer both nen and 911 calls and transfer the information gathered to LEO's. Dispatchers have no authority and cannot give orders to anyone they can only advise. This is why the dispatcher that GZ spoke with stated "We don't need you to do that" instead of "Stop following " or "Don't follow". We (LEO's) like to gather as much information going into a situation as we possibly and safely can. The dispatcher stated "We don't need you to do that" with the intent of letting GZ know that the risk wasn't worth the intel if TM was a criminal. I've been working with dispatchers for about 17 years so I can state this with pretty good certainty. The dispatcher was recommending that GZ not follow TM for GZ's safety not TM's.
 

ecofarm

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Did that answer the questions you had, or was there something else?
Could you superimpose, on the map provided herein, the generally accepted path taken by Martin. He presumably ran in the direction away from Z's truck, but I'd like to be sure of the established narrative regarding his path, at least on that map.
 

What if...?

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I didn't just mean you. I see it in articles on CNN and most people refer to the person on the phone with Z as a "dispatcher".

So... it was not a dispatcher and was, actually, a NEN operator?
Same guy dispatched officers. Just not a cop in FL.
 

What if...?

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Could you superimpose, on the map provided herein, the generally accepted path taken by Martin. He presumably ran in the direction away from Z's truck, but I'd like to be sure of the established narrative regarding his path, at least on that map.
According to Z M ran down between the buildings down the tee.

How far down is unknown.

M had the call from Rachel about the time he got out of sight.
 
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