When guns are outlawed.... (1 Viewer)

[Little-Acorn]

The old bumper sticker still says it best: When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

I still smile tenderly at people who insist they only want the government to restrict guns a little. Or only ban certain "especially bad" ones. Or create just a few "gun free zones" around schools or churches or wherever. Or etc. History has shown over an over, that once you grant government the authority to put ANY restrictions on personal weapons, it tries over the ensuing years to put more and more, until private ownership or use is basically impossible. Except for those who disobey the law, of course. And every time, a new batch of do-gooders shows up, and insists that with them, it will be different.

Same goes for the ones who demand, "Why do you NEED such-and-such a gun?" These people don't seem to see any problem with a requirement to explain to some outside entity our reasons for wanting the ability to be armed, as a necessary condition to buy or own one.

Do these misnamed "gun buyback" programs actually reduce crime? Everyone has an opinion. But does anybody have any FACTS? Some study you can point to showing crime levels before and after a buyback program? Or anything similar?

And before you get huffy about the fact that the above "gun-buyback" program was voluntary, and not MANDATED by government, permit me to guide you back to the issue it illustrates: People without guns are vulnerable to predation by people who have them. The guy saw right away that the woman had money. But he didn't pull his gun on her until he was sure she didn't have hers any more.

Sure, she made her own choice to give up her gun. But when people have that choice taken away by government and are forced to do so, the lawbreakers can be even more sure their law-abiding victims are unarmed; and less inhibited about going after them.

 

[Diogenes]

When I was but a wee lad, there were some Neandertals in the next cave over that made the same argument about atlatls that the Brady bunch makes about guns today. I haven't seen very many Neandertals around lately... :mrgreen:

 

[Caine]

Responsible Gun Ownership = Good

However,
Im not so much in support of the 2nd amendment that I believe in private ownership of nuclear weapons, or even grenades for that matter.


'nuff said.

 

[ProudAmerican]

just a friendly reminder, and not a flame......

read the rules of this particular forum. you have to abide by them. you have to post a link and the title of the thread must be the same as the title of the article in the link.

certain people......apscoughaps.......have been known to have an absolute coniption fit when you dont follow these rules.

unless you are a liberal, then you will probably get a free pass on that....

:mrgreen:

 

[Caine]

certain people......apscoughaps.......have been known to have an absolute coniption fit when you dont follow these rules.

unless you are a liberal, then you will probably get a free pass on that....

:mrgreen:

Aps has what authority here????

Are you certain this post wasn't meant to flame?????
I would take that back if I were you.

Wouldn't want anyone to find you to be un-truthful, would you?

 

[ProudAmerican]

Aps has what authority here????

Are you certain this post wasn't meant to flame?????
I would take that back if I were you.

Wouldn't want anyone to find you to be un-truthful, would you?

flame, nahh.....take a cheap shot......sure.

:mrgreen:

and you are correct, aps has no authority here, but you sure couldnt tell it when she railed me like no tomorrow on a thread where I mistakenly didnt follow the rules.

just gettin a little revenge is all.

surely im not the only one here to take an ocassional jab. as a matter of fact, I KNOW IM NOT the only one here to do that.

so, no.....I didnt intend to flame the person that started the thread.....but sure, I intended to take a harmless jab at someone else.

 

[Caine]

flame, nahh.....take a cheap shot......sure.

:mrgreen:

and you are correct, aps has no authority here, but you sure couldnt tell it when she railed me like no tomorrow on a thread where I mistakenly didnt follow the rules.

just gettin a little revenge is all.

surely im not the only one here to take an ocassional jab. as a matter of fact, I KNOW IM NOT the only one here to do that.

so, no.....I didnt intend to flame the person that started the thread.....but sure, I intended to take a harmless jab at someone else.

Okay.. :2razz:

Well, to me and you it is a harmless jab.
But some people and thier emotions, I'll tell you........

 

[Stace]

Moderator's Warning:

Little-Acorn, you have been informed numerous times of the rules and guidelines for posting in *Breaking News*; at this point, you can no longer claim ignorance and therefore, from here on out, the mod team can only assume that you are blatantly disregarding the rules. Any subsequent violations WILL result in official warnings. And sorry, ProudAmerican....no one gets a "free pass" on these rules, regardless of their political affiliation.

 

[TurtleDude]

Responsible Gun Ownership = Good

However,
Im not so much in support of the 2nd amendment that I believe in private ownership of nuclear weapons, or even grenades for that matter.


'nuff said.

the amendment speaks of arms- arms were seen as distinct from "artillery" or "Ordnance". Nukes or grenades are clearly artillery or Ordnance. If the intent was that each citizen had the basic infantry weapon, then the grenade issue becomes more hazy. Stuff like flamethrowers, mortars and stinger missiles, while operated by one man are not issued to each individual soldier

If lines have to be drawn I would suggest that any weapon regularly issued to CIVILIAN Law enforcement officers (Handguns, "sniper rifles" automatic carbines") should clearly be allowed to other CIVILIANS. stuff like automatic grenade launchers, portable anti tank weapons (Like a LAW) are far more problematic.

I cannot logically fathom a City of state saying a certain weapon has no legitimate civilian use in that jurisdiction and then issuing the same weapon to its agents

 

[Caine]

the amendment speaks of arms- arms were seen as distinct from "artillery" or "Ordnance". Nukes or grenades are clearly artillery or Ordnance. If the intent was that each citizen had the basic infantry weapon, then the grenade issue becomes more hazy. Stuff like flamethrowers, mortars and stinger missiles, while operated by one man are not issued to each individual soldier

If lines have to be drawn I would suggest that any weapon regularly issued to CIVILIAN Law enforcement officers (Handguns, "sniper rifles" automatic carbines") should clearly be allowed to other CIVILIANS. stuff like automatic grenade launchers, portable anti tank weapons (Like a LAW) are far more problematic.

I cannot logically fathom a City of state saying a certain weapon has no legitimate civilian use in that jurisdiction and then issuing the same weapon to its agents

Well, I added that bit in there because I have debated people on this very forum who stated they believe in private ownership in any weapon, including privately owned nuclear weapons and rockets and grenades.


But, I do believe that hi-power rifles/handguns/(certain) Assault Rifles/shotguns are all fine.

But, of course, when it comes to weapons not commonly used for hunting (handguns/assault rifles) I believe the government should have criminal screening requirements.

Basically, Im happy with the gun laws in my state (North Carolina).

I own 2 guns, and have a 3rd that I "borrow" from the City.

 

[TurtleDude]

Well, I added that bit in there because I have debated people on this very forum who stated they believe in private ownership in any weapon, including privately owned nuclear weapons and rockets and grenades.


But, I do believe that hi-power rifles/handguns/(certain) Assault Rifles/shotguns are all fine.

But, of course, when it comes to weapons not commonly used for hunting (handguns/assault rifles) I believe the government should have criminal screening requirements.

Basically, Im happy with the gun laws in my state (North Carolina).

I own 2 guns, and have a 3rd that I "borrow" from the City.

me, I have dozens-of course I used to represent several dealers and makers and got lots of "freebies". Plus I was on a couple teams and was a factory staff shooter for a few too. I have absolutely no problem with the instant background check though we all know someone with a record can buy a black market gun as surely as a tweaker does not need a prescription to get benzedrine

 

[Caine]

me, I have dozens-of course I used to represent several dealers and makers and got lots of "freebies". Plus I was on a couple teams and was a factory staff shooter for a few too. I have absolutely no problem with the instant background check though we all know someone with a record can buy a black market gun as surely as a tweaker does not need a prescription to get benzedrine

I know there are black market guns and all that, but when the government can keep from allowing some maniac to LEGALLY own a weapon, Im for it, well, to an extent of course, as mentioned before, I am fully happy with NC's laws on gun ownership, and open carry :lol:

 

[TurtleDude]

I know there are black market guns and all that, but when the government can keep from allowing some maniac to LEGALLY own a weapon, Im for it, well, to an extent of course, as mentioned before, I am fully happy with NC's laws on gun ownership, and open carry :lol:

I am unqualified to discuss NC's gun laws but I am sure they are better than Kalifornia and New York and the People's dictatorship of Taxachessetts

 

[Caine]

I am unqualified to discuss NC's gun laws but I am sure they are better than Kalifornia and New York and the People's dictatorship of Taxachessetts

Because those are extremely liberal states.

You gotta find a more moderate state, like... well.. NC.:2razz:

 

[TurtleDude]

Because those are extremely liberal states.

You gotta find a more moderate state, like... well.. NC.:2razz:

Ohio isn't bad but some of the big cities have moronic gun bans. There is a move to pass a law that prevents cities from banning guns-a good idea. It only punishes the law abiding from living there. I love the argument that a rifle is not suitable in cincinnati (well neither is a 40 foot yacht or even a golf club in the middle of downtown)

I find it funny that America generally has "liberal gun laws" but "liberals" hate that fact:mrgreen: I also find amusing that those who whine the loudest about the prophylactic NSA surveillance violating rights (security be damned) are often the most vocal supporters of gun bans that have never proven to increase security but certainly violate rights more than the NSA surveillance

 

[Caine]

Ohio isn't bad but some of the big cities have moronic gun bans. There is a move to pass a law that prevents cities from banning guns-a good idea. It only punishes the law abiding from living there. I love the argument that a rifle is not suitable in cincinnati (well neither is a 40 foot yacht or even a golf club in the middle of downtown)

I find it funny that America generally has "liberal gun laws" but "liberals" hate that fact:mrgreen: I also find amusing that those who whine the loudest about the prophylactic NSA surveillance violating rights (security be damned) are often the most vocal supporters of gun bans that have never proven to increase security but certainly violate rights more than the NSA surveillance

Well, I am, and always will be, in favor of private ownership of guns.

I just hate it that my city, Charlotte, does not allow firing a gun in the city limits (other than for self-defense and law enforcement only). I haven't even seen any shooting ranges in the city limits. Its a good thing I live along the city limit boundary and right next to a city that does allow it.

 

[TurtleDude]

Well, I am, and always will be, in favor of private ownership of guns.

I just hate it that my city, Charlotte, does not allow firing a gun in the city limits (other than for self-defense and law enforcement only). I haven't even seen any shooting ranges in the city limits. Its a good thing I live along the city limit boundary and right next to a city that does allow it.

we have an indoor range 15 minutes from me-another will be open in 6 months 20 minutes from me where I can shoot my various AR-15's, etc. I belong to two outdoor ranges-one had to shut down indefinetly its rifle range (backstop issues with new development near by).

I mostly shoot pistols and sporting clays though and I can shoot small bore and air rifle in the 100X50 heated barn I use for various sports on my property

 

[Caine]

we have an indoor range 15 minutes from me-another will be open in 6 months 20 minutes from me where I can shoot my various AR-15's, etc. I belong to two outdoor ranges-one had to shut down indefinetly its rifle range (backstop issues with new development near by).

I mostly shoot pistols and sporting clays though and I can shoot small bore and air rifle in the 100X50 heated barn I use for various sports on my property

I used to live 10 minutes (east one way west the other) from two different indoor ranges, out in Fayetteville, NC.

Military towns rule when it comes to Guns.

 

[TurtleDude]

I used to live 10 minutes (east one way west the other) from two different indoor ranges, out in Fayetteville, NC.

Military towns rule when it comes to Guns.

makes sense to me-what sort of gun are you issued?

 

[Caine]

makes sense to me-what sort of gun are you issued?

SW99 .40 Caliber

 

[TurtleDude]

SW99 .40 Caliber

a good gun though I can't stand the triggers. I have the new M&P in 40 and 9. I don't like 40's save out of my sig 229 which I sometimes carry though the agents we work with are issued Sig 226 in 40 or the Glock 22. 40's kick more than they get in increased stopping power over the really good 9mm like the old FBI pick-the federal hydrashock. I find a 45 much easier to shoot well. My wife usually carries a Para CCW in 45 (gold sabers 185).

 

[Caine]

a good gun though I can't stand the triggers. I have the new M&P in 40 and 9. I don't like 40's save out of my sig 229 which I sometimes carry though the agents we work with are issued Sig 226 in 40 or the Glock 22. 40's kick more than they get in increased stopping power over the really good 9mm like the old FBI pick-the federal hydrashock. I find a 45 much easier to shoot well. My wife usually carries a Para CCW in 45 (gold sabers 185).

My gun is a Springfield XD-9 (9mm) Its pretty accurate, and was actually recommended over the Glock I was looking at, I don't remember which Glock it was now.. I think the Glock 19, but im not sure.

Anyhow, the other gun in the house is a Tarus P111. My wife got it cause its little and "looks cool". She doesn't shoot it much though.

 

[Morrow]

And before you get huffy about the fact that the above "gun-buyback" program was voluntary, and not MANDATED by government, permit me to guide you back to the issue it illustrates: People without guns are vulnerable to predation by people who have them.

I still don’t think you’ve drawn a clear link between gun buy back programs, and the violation of your 2nd amendment rights. Your comment “People without guns are vulnerable to predation by people who have them.” Is a nonsequitor to the guy back program.

 

[teacher]

Listen you bedwetters, here's something you can never change.

Better to have me on your side.

When guns are outlawed...

I'll start making guns.

Powder?

Charcoal, Sulfer, Potasium Nitrate.

Made it in the 8th grade. Boom! Just a firecracker Mom.

teacher. Remember?

Now, then, you gonna tell me I can't teach this skill I know?

Better change the 1st ammendment before the 2nd you freaks.

You lose. This is America.


When you all gonna come up with a topic I can't instantly end all debate on?

No wonder I'm so busy moving blocks.

I'd be bored otherwise.


Yet another example of a ignored teacher post.

Go ahead, try me on this.

2nd ammendment? Try me? Oh come on. Some one. Please.



My no link policy is temporarily suspended.

Not the research policly. Colossal brain baby, colossal.

Who right now, this instant, besides me knows how to make gunpowder? Pacridge. And?

And TNT?

Plastic?

Atomics?

Thermo's?

You all suck. (You know who "you all") are.

Almost 5000.

I'm defeated where?

 

[TurtleDude]

black powder makes good bombs-doesn't work well in modern semi autos.