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When God Began Whispering...

Jehovah reads the heart and draws such ones accordingly...

"All of a man’s ways seem right to him,
But Jehovah examines the hearts." proverbs 21:2

"all those who were rightly disposed for everlasting life became believers." Acts 13:48

Interesting, so your God knows what my future will be therefore invalidating my free will. I can’t reach him even if I want to if he’s arbitrarily decided I won’t.

You are reinforcing that salvation and damnation are arbitrary and meaningless. Indirectly, you are making Jesus’s sacrifice pointless.
 
Interesting, so your God knows what my future will be therefore invalidating my free will. I can’t reach him even if I want to if he’s arbitrarily decided I won’t.

You are reinforcing that salvation and damnation are arbitrary and meaningless. Indirectly, you are making Jesus’s sacrifice pointless.
Nope...your choices determine His actions...
 
And your god somehow knows my entire future. Thereby invalidating my free will.
Wrong again...you have the power to change your own heart condition...or not...your choice...
 
Wrong again...you have the power to change your own heart condition...or not...your choice...

I choose right now to change me “heart condition”…

Nothing happened. Apparently it’s not a choice.

You do know that the heart doesn’t do any kind of thinking, right? It’s just a muscle that pumps blood.
 
I choose right now to change me “heart condition”…

Nothing happened. Apparently it’s not a choice.

You do know that the heart doesn’t do any kind of thinking, right? It’s just a muscle that pumps blood.
You do know you mind and heart work together...it's obvious you've turned off both where Jehovah is concerned...
 
You do know you mind and heart work together...it's obvious you've turned off both where Jehovah is concerned...

Your heart does literally nothing but pump blood. Your heart could stop entirely and so long as some other means keeps your blood circulating, your mind will not be effected at all.

I’ve turned off nothing. All your god has to do to make me a devout believer is provide objective verifiable evidence for its existence.

Why is that too much to ask?
 
All your god has to do to make me a devout believer is provide objective verifiable evidence for its existence.
Adam and Eve had all the evidence they needed, yet they blew it...
 
Adam and Eve had all the evidence they needed, yet they blew it...

So? Do I not deserve a chance? Has your god arbitrarily decided my salvation isn’t worth his effort when he has infinite capabilities?
 
@Elora

In your OP, you claimed Satan spoke to Adam and Eve. But the Bible clearly states a talking snake spoke to Adam and Eve.

If you are going to claim that specific talking snake was Satan, something the Bible does not say (thereby making it a manmade teaching, something you say makes someone a fake Christian), then you are contradicting claims you made in another thread that Satan is a bodiless invisible spirit, as the Bible clearly states God punished the talking snake with removal of its arms and legs, forcing it to crawl on its belly.

So which is it?
 
So? Do I not deserve a chance? Has your god arbitrarily decided my salvation isn’t worth his effort when he has infinite capabilities?
Your chance is NOW...do not let it pass you by...
 
@Elora

In your OP, you claimed Satan spoke to Adam and Eve. But the Bible clearly states a talking snake spoke to Adam and Eve.

If you are going to claim that specific talking snake was Satan, something the Bible does not say (thereby making it a manmade teaching, something you say makes someone a fake Christian), then you are contradicting claims you made in another thread that Satan is a bodiless invisible spirit, as the Bible clearly states God punished the talking snake with removal of its arms and legs, forcing it to crawl on its belly.

So which is it?
You said you have read the Bible...I don't believe you have or you would not be so confused...
 
The snake in the garden of Eden is not Ha-Satan.

To say so ignores the Word of God.
 
You said you have read the Bible...I don't believe you have or you would not be so confused...

I’m not confused. The Book of Genesis very clearly states Adam and Eve were tempted by a talking snake, a creature with a body that God then punished by forcing it to crawl on its belly.

You seem confused because you think that talking snake was Satan, a creature you have claimed is a bodiless invisible spirit.

So are you now saying Satan does have a body?
 
I’m not confused. The Book of Genesis very clearly states Adam and Eve were tempted by a talking snake, a creature with a body that God then punished by forcing it to crawl on its belly.

You seem confused because you think that talking snake was Satan, a creature you have claimed is a bodiless invisible spirit.

So are you now saying Satan does have a body?
Do you deny demon possession? The Bible speaks of pigs being demon possessed...
 
Do you deny demon possession? The Bible speaks of pigs being demon possessed...

So where does the Bible state the snake in Genesis was demon possessed?

Or is that a manmade teaching?

Also, why would your god punish all snakes by making them crawl on their bellies because one of them did things while possessed and unable to control its actions?
 
So where does the Bible state the snake in Genesis was demon possessed?

Or is that a manmade teaching?

Also, why would your god punish all snakes by making them crawl on their bellies because one of them did things while possessed and unable to control its actions?

Did He?
Questions From Readers

Did the serpent that spoke to Eve have legs?


As recorded at Genesis 3:14, Jehovah God addressed the serpent that had deceived Eve in the garden of Eden. God said: “Because you have done this thing, you are the cursed one out of all the domestic animals and out of all the wild beasts of the field. Upon your belly you will go and dust is what you will eat all the days of your life.” The Bible does not specifically state that the animal used in tempting Eve had previously had legs but lost them. While the wording of Genesis 3:14 might lead some to think so, we need not necessarily conclude that prior to this curse, serpents had legs. Why not?

Principally because the real object of Jehovah’s judgment was Satan—the invisible spirit who had misused that lowly animal. The Bible describes Satan as “the father of the lie” and “the original serpent.” Both of these expressions apparently point back to Satan’s using a visible animal, a serpent, as his mouthpiece to induce Eve to disobey God’s command.—John 8:44; Revelation 20:2.

God created serpents, and Adam had apparently given serpents their name before Satan’s deceptive act. The unreasoning serpent that spoke to Eve was not to blame. It would have been unaware that Satan was manipulating it, and it could not understand the judgment that God rendered against the disobedient parties.

Why, then, did God speak of the serpent’s physical abasement? The behavior of a serpent in its natural environment, crawling on its belly and flicking its tongue as if to lick up dust, fittingly symbolized Satan’s debased condition. Having previously enjoyed a lofty position as one of God’s angels, he was consigned to the lowly condition referred to in the Bible as Tartarus.—2 Peter 2:4.

Further, as a literal serpent might wound a man’s heel, Satan in his debased state would ‘bruise the heel’ of God’s “seed.” (Genesis 3:15) The primary part of that seed proved to be Jesus Christ, who temporarily suffered at the hands of Satan’s agents. But the symbolic serpent’s head will, in time, be permanently crushed by Christ and his resurrected anointed Christian companions. (Romans 16:20) Thus, God’s directing his curse toward the visible serpent aptly pictured the debasement and ultimate destruction of the invisible “original serpent,” Satan the Devil.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2007448
 
Our Readers Ask . . .Why Would Satan Use a Serpent to Speak to Eve?

You may agree that as discussed on page 8, Satan was the force behind the serpent that spoke to Eve. The Bible certainly teaches this. However, you may wonder, ‘Why would a powerful spirit manipulate a snake the way a ventriloquist uses a dummy?’

The Bible characterizes Satan’s tactics as “machinations,” or “crafty acts,” and this incident helps to prove the point. (Ephesians 6:11; footnote) What we see in Eden is no fable about a talking animal; it is a chilling example of clever strategy designed to lure people away from God. In what way?

Satan chose his target carefully. Eve was the youngest intelligent creature in the universe. Taking advantage of her inexperience, he set out to trick and seduce her. By hiding behind a serpent, a very cautious creature, Satan shrewdly concealed his own bold and ambitious aims. (Genesis 3:1) Consider, too, what he accomplished by making the serpent appear to speak.

First, Satan caught and riveted Eve’s attention. She knew that snakes do not talk; her husband had named all the animals, including this one, likely after careful study. (Genesis 2:19) No doubt Eve too had observed this cautious creature. So Satan’s ploy roused Eve’s curiosity; it got her to focus on the one thing in all the garden that was forbidden to her. Second, if the serpent was lurking in the limbs of the forbidden tree, what conclusion was Eve likely to draw? Might she not have reasoned that this lowly, dumb creature had itself eaten from that fruit and had thereafter been able to speak? If the fruit could do so much for a serpent, what might it do for her? We cannot know for sure what Eve thought or whether the snake had taken a bite of the fruit, but we do know that when the serpent told Eve that the fruit would make her “like God,” she was prepared to believe the lie.

Satan’s choice of words also reveals much. He sowed doubts in Eve’s mind, implying that God was holding back something good from her and needlessly restricting her freedom. The success of Satan’s scheme depended on the chance that Eve’s self-interest would outweigh her love for the God who had given her everything she had. (Genesis 3:4, 5) Tragically, Satan’s gambit worked; neither Eve nor Adam had cultivated in their own hearts the kind of love and appreciation for Jehovah that they should have. Does not Satan promote the same kind of self-interest and rationalizing today?

What, though, about Satan’s motive? What was he after? In Eden, he attempted to hide both his identity and his motive. But, in time, he revealed himself. When he tempted Jesus, he surely knew that disguises were of no use. So he directly urged Jesus: “Fall down and do an act of worship to me.” (Matthew 4:9) Evidently, Satan has long been driven by jealousy over the worship that goes to Jehovah God. He will go to any length to divert or pervert such worship. He loves to destroy integrity to God.

Clearly, the Bible reveals that Satan is a deadly strategist in seeking his aims. Happily, we need not be fooled as Eve was, “for we are not ignorant of his designs.”—2 Corinthians 2:11.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2011008
 
The segment of Genesis that talks about the events in the Garden never mentions Satan once. Your insertion of Satan into the story is a man-made teaching and that means you’re a fake Christian by your own definition.
Guess you've not read Revelation, either...
 
Guess you've not read Revelation, either...

“That old serpent” you mean?

Show where the Bible is saying that specifically refers to the serpent from the Garden.
 
Interesting, so your God knows what my future will be therefore invalidating my free will. I can’t reach him even if I want to if he’s arbitrarily decided I won’t.

You are reinforcing that salvation and damnation are arbitrary and meaningless. Indirectly, you are making Jesus’s sacrifice pointless.
drown.jpg
 
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