When Do the Mothers Revolt?

[Rexedgar]

USSR casualties in Afghanistan were reported to be approx 70,000 with approx 15,000 KIA

According to Ukrainian sources, Russian battle casualties are 19,000-20,000

The Soviets were in Afghanistan for almost a decade. The Russians have been in Ukraine for less than 2 months, not counting the pre February 2022 forces

These are numbers that cannot be hidden for long, especially at the speed they have been building up. Now the Black Sea flagship has gone down via incompetence or direct fire, depending who is telling the tale.


Weren’t the Soviet parents instrumental in finally getting the USSR out of Afghanistan?
How long can the number be tolerated?


Edit: Even if the Ukrainian reports are inflated by double, there should be a problem in Russia.

 

[Logician Man]

USSR casualties in Afghanistan were reported to be approx 70,000 with approx 15,000 KIA

According to Ukrainian sources, Russian battle casualties are 19,000-20,000

The Soviets were in Afghanistan for almost a decade. The Russians have been in Ukraine for less than 2 months, not counting the pre February 2022 forces

These are numbers that cannot be hidden for long, especially at the speed they have been building up. Now the Black Sea flagship has gone down via incompetence or direct fire, depending who is telling the tale.


Weren’t the Soviet parents instrumental in finally getting the USSR out of Afghanistan?
How long can the number be tolerated?

Hopefully if/when they get the full and total truth about what is actually happening in Ukraine, and why it is happening --- visuals and all. And why they are losing their sons and husbands.

 

[MaryP]

USSR casualties in Afghanistan were reported to be approx 70,000 with approx 15,000 KIA

According to Ukrainian sources, Russian battle casualties are 19,000-20,000

The Soviets were in Afghanistan for almost a decade. The Russians have been in Ukraine for less than 2 months, not counting the pre February 2022 forces

These are numbers that cannot be hidden for long, especially at the speed they have been building up. Now the Black Sea flagship has gone down via incompetence or direct fire, depending who is telling the tale.


Weren’t the Soviet parents instrumental in finally getting the USSR out of Afghanistan?
How long can the number be tolerated?

Is that how parents reacted to WW II when their sons came home in a bag? No. They hated the enemy who killed them even more. It hardened them to the fight.

 

[Rexedgar]

Hopefully if/when they get the full and total truth about what is actually happening in Ukraine, and why it is happening --- visuals and all. And why they are losing their sons and husbands.

When they don’t get letters or phone calls after a time……………

 

[Rexedgar]

Is that how parents reacted to WW II when their sons came home in a bag? No. They hated the enemy who killed them even more. It hardened them to the fight.

If they came home at the rate that is being reported in the time that is passing, there would have been a reckoning.

 

[Cardinal]

USSR casualties in Afghanistan were reported to be approx 70,000 with approx 15,000 KIA

According to Ukrainian sources, Russian battle casualties are 19,000-20,000

The Soviets were in Afghanistan for almost a decade. The Russians have been in Ukraine for less than 2 months, not counting the pre February 2022 forces

These are numbers that cannot be hidden for long, especially at the speed they have been building up. Now the Black Sea flagship has gone down via incompetence or direct fire, depending who is telling the tale.


Weren’t the Soviet parents instrumental in finally getting the USSR out of Afghanistan?
How long can the number be tolerated?


Edit: Even if the Ukrainian reports are inflated by double, there should be a problem in Russia.

As I understand it, the political structure in the Russian Federation is much different than the…dare I say it…relatively “democratic” Soviet version (not counting Stalin). The leadership today is entirely unilateral and top down, whereas there was a politburo for the chairman to answer to. In essence, Putin is about as answerable to public sentiment as Stalin was.

 

[noonereal]

USSR casualties in Afghanistan were reported to be approx 70,000 with approx 15,000 KIA

According to Ukrainian sources, Russian battle casualties are 19,000-20,000

The Soviets were in Afghanistan for almost a decade. The Russians have been in Ukraine for less than 2 months, not counting the pre February 2022 forces

These are numbers that cannot be hidden for long, especially at the speed they have been building up. Now the Black Sea flagship has gone down via incompetence or direct fire, depending who is telling the tale.


Weren’t the Soviet parents instrumental in finally getting the USSR out of Afghanistan?
How long can the number be tolerated?


Edit: Even if the Ukrainian reports are inflated by double, there should be a problem in Russia.

Moms will hate the Nazis worse than ever for killing their sons.

 

[noonereal]

Is that how parents reacted to WW II when their sons came home in a bag? No. They hated the enemy who killed them even more. It hardened them to the fight.

Bingo!!!!

 

[charliebrown]

Brainwashing a population is easier than we like to think. Those who do not comply with the brainwashing are punished appropriately.

 

[Rexedgar]

As I understand it, the political structure in the Russian Federation is much different than the…dare I say it…relatively “democratic” Soviet version (not counting Stalin). The leadership today is entirely unilateral and top down, whereas there was a politburo for the chairman to answer to. In essence, Putin is about as answerable to public sentiment as Stalin was.

“Where is my son/daughter and why can’t I reach him?”

If they ever get together, how do you think the unilateral leadership will handle them?

The Russian media is reporting the loss of the Black Sea cruiser, even posting a picture of the ship’s complement, minus a significant number of the crew.
This type of information can only be repressed for so long. Unilateral leadership means Putin can’t spread the blame around, not that admirals and generals won’t disappear…..

 

[Cardinal]

But to answer the question “When will the moms speak up?” I’d say that Ukrainians probably weren’t doing themselves any favors when they

“Where is my son/daughter and why can’t I reach him?”

If they ever get together, how do you think the unilateral leadership will handle them?

The Russian media is reporting the loss of the Black Sea cruiser, even posting a picture of the ship’s complement, minus a significant number of the crew.
This type of information can only be repressed for so long. Unilateral leadership means Putin can’t spread the blame around, not that admirals and generals won’t disappear…..

I guess what you’d first have to address is the question: what is the critical mass for dissent? We can answer that more easily Western democracies because we have a broad array of polling to fall back on, and we generally know how to interpret that polling. But that’s Western democracies with free speech and elected officials answerable to a voting citizenry. There’s nothing like that in Russia and gauging real polling or the “critical mass for dissent” is nowhere near as straightforward.

 

[Felis Leo]

Is that how parents reacted to WW II when their sons came home in a bag? No. They hated the enemy who killed them even more. It hardened them to the fight.

I would point out that in World War 2, the Soviet Union and Russia was being invaded by genocidal Nazis. They had no choice but to fight or die. Here the Russians are entering another country they had no business in. Just like in Afghanistan.

 

[MaryP]

I would point out that in World War 2, the Soviet Union and Russia was being invaded by genocidal Nazis. They had no choice but to fight or die. Here the Russians are entering another country they had no business in. Just like in Afghanistan.

The Russians don't know that.

 

[Rogue Valley]

The Russians don't know that.

Mary is right.

Via 24/7 state propagada, the majority of the Russian population believes this is an existential war with Ukraine/the West.

 

[Felis Leo]

Mary is right.

Via 24/7 state propagada, the majority of the Russian population believes this is an existential war with Ukraine/the West.

My gosh. From special military operation to a life and death struggle for survival. That escalated quickly.

 

[cpwill]

My gosh. From special military operation to a life and death struggle for survival. That escalated quickly.

Indeed.

I don't know to what degree any of us - from the outside in - would be able to tell with accuracy what percentage of Russians actually buy their state propaganda here, or don't. One of the myriad problems with authoritarian dictatorships is that it is very hard to get reliably accurate public polling from people who are used to either hiding or obfuscating their opinions in order to (rationally) avoid State abuse, and who have instinctive distrust of strangers as a result.

I tend to suspect that you would see some people who would cross sides, and many more who will have their previous position incredibly deeply entrenched, by experiencing the death of a child.

My son wants to join the military, as I did. I am starting to realize now what I put my parents through, at the time.

 

[Antiwar]

Grandmothers across the world should put the smackdown on a bunch of people, and that should include the dood that started this thread.

 

[Rexedgar]

Indeed.

I don't know to what degree any of us - from the outside in - would be able to tell with accuracy what percentage of Russians actually buy their state propaganda here, or don't. One of the myriad problems with authoritarian dictatorships is that it is very hard to get reliably accurate public polling from people who are used to either hiding or obfuscating their opinions in order to (rationally) avoid State abuse, and who have instinctive distrust of strangers as a result.

I tend to suspect that you would see some people who would cross sides, and many more who will have their previous position incredibly deeply entrenched, by experiencing the death of a child.

My son wants to join the military, as I did. I am starting to realize now what I put my parents through, at the time.

How does a country isolate itself from information in this day and age? In Nazi Germany it was crime to listen to western radio broadcasts, but there was really no way to get caught unless you were turned in. The Russian people went from privation to sniffing “democracy” back to heavy handed government and now back to privation, economically.

Is there a dimmer/on/off switch for the flood of information that travels around the world/ layman’s terms if you please?

 

[Rexedgar]

Grandmothers across the world should put the smackdown on a bunch of people, and that should include the dood that started this thread.

 

[cpwill]

How does a country isolate itself from information in this day and age? In Nazi Germany it was crime to listen to western radio broadcasts, but there was really no way to get caught unless you were turned in. The Russian people went from privation to sniffing “democracy” back to heavy handed government and now back to privation, economically.

Is there a dimmer/on/off switch for the flood of information that travels around the world/ layman’s terms if you please?

Radio was broadcast in all directions; all you had to do to listen was turn a dial. When you were done, turn the dial back - no one could prove what you'd done.

Internet based communications are a bit easier to track. :-/

Welcome to the age of the Great Firewall of China. :-/

 

[Antiwar]

[...]

I say Neil Peart is overrated.

Just because you bang the war drum, that doesn't mean that I'm playing one tune, memer. If your commentary were a drum set it'd be a halfway decent but thin steel (not iron, not stainless steel) frying pan coated in red, white, and blue and sound like . Grandma should get your attention with that frying pan.

I will watch the video, though, since I do bang the drums.

=> Try to pick a less annoying video, next time.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

The Russians don't know that.

They know that their leadership and military is invading a neighboring nation that is not invading them.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

USSR casualties in Afghanistan were reported to be approx 70,000 with approx 15,000 KIA

According to Ukrainian sources, Russian battle casualties are 19,000-20,000

The Soviets were in Afghanistan for almost a decade. The Russians have been in Ukraine for less than 2 months, not counting the pre February 2022 forces

These are numbers that cannot be hidden for long, especially at the speed they have been building up. Now the Black Sea flagship has gone down via incompetence or direct fire, depending who is telling the tale.


Weren’t the Soviet parents instrumental in finally getting the USSR out of Afghanistan?
How long can the number be tolerated?


Edit: Even if the Ukrainian reports are inflated by double, there should be a problem in Russia.

Much bigger problem for Russia now then when they were involved in Afghanistan. At least when they withdrew from Afghanistan, they did so with a military pretty much intact and still somewhat feared around the world. In the leadup to the invasion of Ukraine, that military was still feared and most of the world assumed that Ukraine would fall in a few days. Now that reputation and fear is shattered, not to mention the economic consequences.

 

[Rogue Valley]

They know that their leadership and military is invading a neighboring nation that is not invading them.

Yes they do.

But they only know the "why of it" as told to them by their government, their televisions, their radios, their newspapers, their websites, etc.

 

[Exquisitor]

USSR casualties in Afghanistan were reported to be approx 70,000 with approx 15,000 KIA

According to Ukrainian sources, Russian battle casualties are 19,000-20,000

The Soviets were in Afghanistan for almost a decade. The Russians have been in Ukraine for less than 2 months, not counting the pre February 2022 forces

These are numbers that cannot be hidden for long, especially at the speed they have been building up. Now the Black Sea flagship has gone down via incompetence or direct fire, depending who is telling the tale.


Weren’t the Soviet parents instrumental in finally getting the USSR out of Afghanistan?
How long can the number be tolerated?


Edit: Even if the Ukrainian reports are inflated by double, there should be a problem in Russia.

Well, at least with the Biden Administration, I can see what's going on in the world again.

And it doesn't look good, we've lost twenty years and thirty-trillion dollars and the people are PO, so they're going to vote Republican in the Fall.

They know how to ride the pony on down.