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What's your attitude toward Islam ?

What is your attitude toward Islam ?

  • With

    Votes: 8 19.5%
  • Neutral

    Votes: 21 51.2%
  • Against

    Votes: 12 29.3%

  • Total voters
    41
  • Poll closed .

teacher

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akyron said:
Aleem said:
Even if the reason is your barbaric behaviour against me ? Your barbaric behaviour is acceptable and mine is not ? What a rotten mind .

Man, I get yelled at and gaveled when I say these things. And Aleems not even trying to be funny.
 

Aleem

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akyron said:
Qur’an 4:55 “Sufficient for the Jew is the Flaming Fire!”
An intentional distortion of Qur'an . The verse [55] in chapter [4] says : " Some of them believed, and some of them averted their faces from him: And enough is Hell for a burning fire. " .
"Them" in the verse refers to those to whom The God sent his apostles .... So where're "the Jews" in the verse ?

Again...If you want to argue me, You can quote only from Yusuf Ali translation which's the most reliable translation till now and NOT from your biased intentionally-distorted sources .

You can find "Yusuf Ali translation" on This Link .

Is the Qur’an Hard on Jews? ; A question asked by a jewish convert to Islam from USA .



akyron said:
I am really trying hard to understand the Islamic motive and drive to kill these people but it really escapes me at this time.
It was better to say : " I am really trying hard to understand the Islamic motive and drive to kill these Killers but it really escapes me at this time. " ;)

akyron said:
Qur’an 8:7 “Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ‘Wipe the infidels out to the last.’”
The Undistorted verse says : "Behold! Allah promised you one of the two (enemy) parties, that it should be yours: Ye wished that the one unarmed should be yours, but Allah willed to justify the Truth according to His words and to cut off the roots of the Unbelievers;-"

As you can read, It's The God NOT US who willed to cut off the roots of the Unbelievers . It's The God's job NOT ours . If you don't like The God's will, Go and tell him : " O' God, I don't like your judgment " . But be careful, You don't know whom you're talking to . He's The God .

akyron said:
Qur’an 5:33 “The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly.”
You should have mentioned the next verse too if you're honest .
The two verses 33,34 say in chapter 5 : " [33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;[34] Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. "

What you don't know is that this verse is applied on Muslims too, And "Waging war against Allah and His Messenger(PBUH)" means disobeying The God's orders and violating The God's taboos which include striving with might and main for mischief through the land which deserves punishment which is graded according to the degree of the sin Unless the sinful person repents before being arrested and brought to The Court (The Power meant in the verse) .

akyron said:
Tabari VIII:122/Ishaq:515 “The Prophet gave orders concerning Kinanah to Zubayr, saying, ‘Torture him until you root out and extract what he has. So Zubayr kindled a fire on Kinanah’s chest, twirling it with his firestick until Kinanah was near death. Then the Messenger gave him to Maslamah, who beheaded him.”
Again...You're fabricating lies about The Prophet Muhammed(PBUH)...You don't know who Muhammed is....You know nothing about A Man who one time fell on his knees in the prostration position to enable his wife to ride a camel by ascending on his back......Have you ever seen something like that ? Can this kind of man order to torture someone ? If you neutrally read the biography of Muhammed with an immaculate heart, Your eyes will shed tears .

Michael Hart, the author of The 100, A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History says:

“My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world’s most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the secular and religious level.....It is probable that the relative influence of Muhammad on Islam has been larger than the combined influence of Jesus Christ and St. Paul on Christianity.....It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history.”

The Encyclopedia Britannica describes him as "the most successful of all religious personalities of the world."

Alphonse de La Martaine the author of Historie de la Turquie, has written:

"If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astonishing results are the three criteria of a human genius, who could dare compare any great man in history with Muhammad? Philosopher, Orator, Apostle, Legislator, Conqueror of Ideas, Restorer of rational beliefs.... The founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?"

If you want to know something about The Prophet Muhammed, Read This .

It is reported that the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said: My Lord gave me nine (bits of) advice and I give them to you. He advised me:

- To be sincere whether in private or in public

- To do justice whether in anger or in happiness

- To be moderate whether in riches or in poverty

- To join (in relations) with those who (try) to cut me off

- To give to those who deprive me

- To forgive those who do wrong to me

- That my silence be thoughtful

- That my speech be mindful (of Allah)

- That my vision be to take admonition.


Examples of Mercy and Compassion from the biography of Muhammed(PBUH) .
 

cnredd

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I’m going to go “big picture” here...get this into your head…

If I snapped my fingers and EVERY foreign soldier in Iraq was gone, they will still want us dead because we are in Afghanistan…

If I snapped my fingers and EVERY foreign soldier in Afghanistan was gone, they will still want us dead because we have bases and people on Muslim land…

If I snapped my fingers and EVERY non-Muslim & every foreigner left Muslim land, they will still want us dead because we associate with the suppressive regimes in Muslim lands…

If I snapped my fingers and EVERY nation stopped associating with the suppressive regimes in Muslim lands,
they will still want us dead because we support Israel…

If I snapped my fingers and EVERY nation in the world stopped recognizing and supporting Israel, and every Jew in Israel, and indeed, the world died, and a new Palestinian nation rises, they will STILL want us dead because the Wahabbism interpretation of the Koran says that we are infidels...and infidels must die.

Anyone who thinks otherwise will die...anyone who speaks out against this mantra will die...anyone who assists the infidels will die.

There are two ways to confront this...
1)change that ideology...By the time that would happen, there would be no one left but the Wahabbists.
2)force...sucky proposition, but better than the first.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Do you really think Muslim extremists resort to terrorism solely because of their religion? Nothing else to it? Nothing at all?
 

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Well lets take this post by post.......


If I snapped my fingers and EVERY foreign soldier in Iraq was gone, they will still want us dead because we are in Afghanistan…


Well the U.S. shouldnt be in either place anyway.....and if the people want you gone out of their lands why should you stay?



If I snapped my fingers and EVERY foreign soldier in Afghanistan was gone, they will still want us dead because we have bases and people on Muslim land…



Again if Muslims want you off their land why are you there? Isnt it their land? why stay where you arent wanted?



If I snapped my fingers and EVERY non-Muslim & every foreigner left Muslim land, they will still want us dead because we associate with the suppressive regimes in Muslim lands…


A better question is why are you friends with an oppresive regime? I thought freedom was for everybody :confused:

they will still want us dead because we support Israel…

Well the problem with this is that the U.S. supplies Israel with weapons which kill Palestinians daily yet provide nothing to the Palestinians and still they have the nerve to say they treat both sides equally


they will STILL want us dead because the Wahabbism interpretation of the Koran says that we are infidels...and infidels must die.


Of course untrue and not to mention that Whabbi's make up less than 1% of the worlds Muslims
 

cnredd

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I just spent ten minutes looking up sources to respond to Surenderer...

If you look at his(her?) response to my post, you could see why I now feel there is no need to bother...it would be an exercise in futility.

For others...read on...

There is no reason that a moderate Muslim state cannot peacefully co-exist with, and prosper alongside, any other western-style society. Look to Turkey, Egypt, Singapore, hell, even parts of the Philippines for examples.

But the truth of it is that Muslims in these countries are faced with this bald fact. They have lost relevance in the modern world, if you think about it. The days of conquering Saladin and the enlightened (if somewhat backward by modern western standards) Caliphate are relics of the desert, driven over by Bedouins in oil-soaked Mercedes. There are no more great philosophers, mathematicians, scientists, philosophers, statesmen, or even artists that claim these regions as home. The smart ones, the talented ones, and the ones that can truly CHANGE their societies, have all fled to western countries, universities and lifestyles. They only look back in scrapbooks.

Beruit used to be such a pretty, cosmopolitan city; the Rivera of the middle east. Now it’s just Stalingrad with palm trees.
 
L

lamaror

I am Christian and I have read the Bible several times, but I have also read the Koran. The Koran is not any more violent than the Bible. I do not believe that most Moslem terrorists are terrorists because they are Moslem. Terrorist in the Middle east are probably responding to many stimulus, the least of all is religious fervor. America's constant sticking its nose into the business and local affairs of foreign countries. America under Bush seems to believe tis correct to interfere anywhere for the sake of Greed, Power, and Profit for corporation. Our support of Israel has consistently made problems for us. The stimulus that causes terrorism is rampant. We Americans are good people and christians. We need to be able to defend our country from Terrorists and other threats, but don't need to assume the attitude that we are far superior to others.. Many times this happens solely because the others are moslems. We need to get out of Iraq and fight the war on Terrorism. God bless America. :roll:
 

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cnredd said:
I just spent ten minutes looking up sources to respond to Surenderer...

If you look at his(her?) response to my post, you could see why I now feel there is no need to bother...it would be an exercise in futility.

For others...read on...

There is no reason that a moderate Muslim state cannot peacefully co-exist with, and prosper alongside, any other western-style society. Look to Turkey, Egypt, Singapore, hell, even parts of the Philippines for examples.

But the truth of it is that Muslims in these countries are faced with this bald fact. They have lost relevance in the modern world, if you think about it. The days of conquering Saladin and the enlightened (if somewhat backward by modern western standards) Caliphate are relics of the desert, driven over by Bedouins in oil-soaked Mercedes. There are no more great philosophers, mathematicians, scientists, philosophers, statesmen, or even artists that claim these regions as home. The smart ones, the talented ones, and the ones that can truly CHANGE their societies, have all fled to western countries, universities and lifestyles. They only look back in scrapbooks.

Beruit used to be such a pretty, cosmopolitan city; the Rivera of the middle east. Now it’s just Stalingrad with palm trees.




It's his thanks ;) ...but the reason you didnt respond to my post is because I'm sure you know I have debunked you.....however I never said that any Muslim state cant live alongside any other State.....as a matter of fact you suggested that we cant. You seem to think that Muslims in the M.E. have no legitamate reason to dislike America and what that shows is that you have no knowledge of History.


There are no more great philosophers, mathematicians, scientists, philosophers, statesmen, or even artists that claim these regions as home.


As far as that ridicoulous statment I can show you that the 2003 Nobel Peace Prize winner was a woman from Iran(.Shirin Ebadi ) A simple Google could have shown you that


Beruit used to be such a pretty, cosmopolitan city; the Rivera of the middle east. Now it’s just Stalingrad with palm trees.
[/QUOTE]


Baghdad was also a great learning center in the M.E. until the Sanctions imposed on Iraq
 
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lamaror said:
I am Christian and I have read the Bible several times, but I have also read the Koran. The Koran is not any more violent than the Bible. I do not believe that most Moslem terrorists are terrorists because they are Moslem. Terrorist in the Middle east are probably responding to many stimulus, the least of all is religious fervor. America's constant sticking its nose into the business and local affairs of foreign countries. America under Bush seems to believe tis correct to interfere anywhere for the sake of Greed, Power, and Profit for corporation. Our support of Israel has consistently made problems for us. The stimulus that causes terrorism is rampant. We Americans are good people and christians. We need to be able to defend our country from Terrorists and other threats, but don't need to assume the attitude that we are far superior to others.. Many times this happens solely because the others are moslems. We need to get out of Iraq and fight the war on Terrorism. God bless America. :roll:




I am a Muslim/American and I agree with you....I feel as if fighting terrorism is always about killing but it is also about fighting the source which creates terrorists.


Peace upon you
 

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[
QUOTE=cnredd]I’m going to go “big picture” here...get this into your head…

If I snapped my fingers and EVERY foreign soldier in Iraq was gone, they will still want us dead because we are in Afghanistan…

If I snapped my fingers and EVERY foreign soldier in Afghanistan was gone, they will still want us dead because we have bases and people on Muslim land…

If I snapped my fingers and EVERY non-Muslim & every foreigner left Muslim land, they will still want us dead because we associate with the suppressive regimes in Muslim lands…

If I snapped my fingers and EVERY nation stopped associating with the suppressive regimes in Muslim lands,
they will still want us dead because we support Israel…

If I snapped my fingers and EVERY nation in the world stopped recognizing and supporting Israel, and every Jew in Israel, and indeed, the world died, and a new Palestinian nation rises, they will STILL want us dead because the Wahabbism interpretation of the Koran says that we are infidels...and infidels must die.

Aleem, Surenderer,

If all these things were to come to pass that cnredd put forth:

Would the Islamic extremists then leave us alone?

Could we still buy your oil?

Would you let Arabs that live in your own countries practice openly whatever religion they choose to?

Do you feel all Arabs in your countries have to abide by the dress codes, what news they watch, and the other commandments of Islam?

Could your women work, vote, teach, hold public office, marry who they choose to?

Honest answers here fellows please.
 

cnredd

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America's constantly sticking its nose into the business and local affairs of foreign countries. America under Bush seems to believe tis correct to interfere anywhere for the sake of Greed, Power, and Profit for corporation. Our support of Israel has consistently made problems for us.

Of course, when America pushed for a coalition to invade Bosnia-Herzagovinia in the mid-nineties to save the ethnic cleansing of Muslims, I don't remeber anyone saying ,"America's constantly sticking its nose into the business and local affairs of foreign countries."

Ever notice how people who like to armchair-quarterback America's every move want to lead the country with a leash like some sort of lapdog to do their bidding? Invade there! Don't invade here! Intervene here! Don't intervene there! Give aid over there! Don't give aid over here! One day they want us to be the World Police, the next day they want us to keep to ourselves.

(sigh)And then we get to Isreal...It always comes back to Isreal. A Muslim could stub his toe on a rock, and it'll be viewed as some Zionist conspiracy.

America will ALWAYS defend a people's right to exist. There are Palestinian organizations backed by the Muslim community whose SOLE PURPOSE is to push every Jew west until they all drown in the Mediterranean Sea. Imagine America's removal of support for Isreal...A whole race of people will DIE.

Do you realize how much easier life would be if America removed its support of Isreal? Our standing in the Muslim community and anti-Semetic societies would skyrocket. Peace would flourish across the Middle East. Terrorism would decline immensely if not disappear altogether.

So why doesn't America do it?...Because its WRONG...If we are so supportive of Isreal, then why don't we just let Isreal crush everyone in the Gaza Strip & the West Bank....because that would be WRONG too...

A settlement, negotiated between the parties, will result in the emergence of an independent, democratic, and viable Palestinian state living side by side in peace and security with Israel and its other neighbors.

This is a direct quote from the Road Map...

Israel wants this, Muslims do not.

We will defend a free and democratic society against a society that can't pick itself up by its collective bootstraps, remove the violent thought process, and get out of the 7th century. To continually whine and blame others for your own faults is both pathetic and counter-productive. Get over it.

According to this logic, England should still be waging their "jihad" against the American government for 1776.
 

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Salaam Alikum teacher,

I don't claim to have the answer for "extremists" because I'm not one. I can only answer for myself and I'm not an extremist but I can see where they get some of their support.



Would the Islamic extremists then leave us alone?

Probably not...but they would lose their support


Could we still buy your oil?


I dont know about the Extremsits opinion on this because I'm not one...but wasnt the U.S. buying oil before all this?


Would you let Arabs that live in your own countries practice openly whatever religion they choose to?

As far as I know Extremists dont target Muslims in other countries but again...they are Extremists so I dont know what they would say about this



Do you feel all Arabs in your countries have to abide by the dress codes, what news they watch, and the other commandments of Islam?


Yes....If you live in a Country dont shouldnt you have to abide by their laws? The news is Islamic countries is no more biased than the news in America. As far dress code the only dress code in Islam is that people should be "modestly dressed" meaning not to be showing "all your business" ;) Is that so awful?



Could your women work, vote, teach, hold public office, marry who they choose to


Goodness bro they do that now.....Women in Iraq had more PHD's per capa than the U.S. did before the sanctions.......Indonesia which has more Muslims than the ENTIRE M.E. has had a woman President something that America hasnt even come close to yet...please dont confuse the Taliban or Whabbi's and their likes with the 99% of Muslims who dont believe what they teach




Honest answers here fellows please.
[/QUOTE]


That's all I give brother.....please remember though that I don't speak for all of Islam or extremists only for myself.....a single Muslim



peace upon you
 

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Surenderer said:
Salaam Alikum teacher,

Gesundheit.

Thanks for the answers. Seems like if the extremists weren't focused on us then you guys would have your hands full. I guess some of those questions were more geared to the countries of Saudi Arabia and Iran than say Kuwait or Egypt. Why don't you guys do more about the extremists from your end? I would think if this whole terror thing went away it would be better for you eh? Are the terrorists reasons more religious or political in your opinion? Are they thinking they're fighting the great Satan or invaders of their land? The first world trade center bombing was before the Gulf war remember. Would you denounce the targeting of Jewish children by Palestinian terrorists? I mean children. If they were to target Jewish military positions I would consider listening to their grievances. But as long as they target children I just want them dead. Like I told Allem if they bombed my children I would be covered in their blood, day and night, head to toe, for a long time to come. And I think Iraq will soon be back to it's former self as far as education and culture go. Saddam was a bad man. The symphony orchestra is playing in Bagdad again. A sure sign of advancement.


Just guessing here but, your not an Arab are you? You make way too much sense. Aleem is an Arab and he's downright nasty.
 
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Gesundheit.

You see things like this are the problem.......I greet you with "peace be upon you" and this is the response i get :(



I guess some of those questions were more geared to the countries of Saudi Arabia and Iran than say Kuwait or Egypt.


Indeed true although I dont see Iran as bad as maybe you do....but Whabbi's(Saudi's) make up less than 1% of the worlds Muslims and Iranians(shiite) less than 20%(but please remember that all Shiites dont live in Iran so thats not 20% of the worlds Muslims)



Why don't you guys do more about the extremists from your end?

Terrorism has to be met not with force but with the facts that drive them have to be removed but that leads to your next question...........



Are the terrorists reasons more religious or political in your opinion?


Absolutley Political......thats why you dont see countries like Canada or Iceland or something like that being targeted by extremists because they dont seem to be bothering Arab politics which I would think you would agree the U.S. meddles in.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-159.html



The first world trade center bombing was before the Gulf war remember


But was after the U.S. gave chemical weapons to Saddam which he used on his population.....or for that fact even the whole Iran Iraq fiasco or do you remeber the U.S. cruiser Vincennes when it downed a Iranian commercial airliner, killing 290 civilians etc etc etc..... There was alot of Arab hostility before the first WTC bombings



Would you denounce the targeting of Jewish children by Palestinian terrorists? I mean children.

Of course the deaths of anyone innocent person...not just children is a tragedy.




Like I told Allem if they bombed my children I would be covered in their blood, day and night, head to toe, for a long time to come.


Me also....but suppose your country was invaded and your children were killed by mistake by a "smart"bomb?.....would you just shrug your shoulders and say "oh well"? suppose the deaths of your kids were labeled as "collateral damage"? Suppose the premise of that invasion was built on lies? would you be pissed? Most terrorist start from deaths of their kids or loved ones....sorrry it aint the religion


Just guessing here but, your not an Arab are you? You make way too much sense. Aleem is an Arab and he's downright nasty

No I'm African-American ;) .....I don't know Aleem but I don't think the fact that he is an Arab is any direct link to his being nasty(your words)



peace to you
 

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teacher said:
Just guessing here but, your not an Arab are you? You make way too much sense. Aleem is an Arab and he's downright nasty.

Thank you Teacher .

But i wonder why i'm nasty though you'd asked me the same questions and my replies were the same as Surenderer's . I think because i confuted you ruthlessly while my brother Surenderer was merciful with you .
 

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Surenderer, apparently under hallucinatory medication, wrote...

As far as I know Extremists dont target Muslims in other countries but again...they are Extremists so I dont know what they would say about this

BAGHDAD, June 28 -- A prominent member of Iraq's National Assembly was killed Tuesday in a suicide car bombing, the second lawmaker to be assassinated since the assembly was elected five months ago.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/28/AR2005062800125.html

(CBS/AP) Al Qaeda's wing in Iraq claimed Thursday it had killed Egypt's top envoy who was abducted by gunmen last weekend and warned it would go after "as many ambassadors as we can" to punish countries that support Iraq's U.S.-backed leadership.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/24/iraq/main541815.shtml

The speaker, purported to be al-Zarqawi, also justified the deaths of fellow Muslims in attacks against U.S. troops and their Iraqi allies, saying jihad — or holy war — was too important to be hindered.

"God ordered us to attack the infidels by all means ... even if armed infidels and unintended victims — women and children — are killed together," he said. "The priority is for jihad so anything that slows down jihad should be overcome."

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-05/19/content_443885.htm

But in Pakistan, many Islamic radicals hold equal (and sometimes more) animosity toward dissenting Muslims (particularly Shiites) than toward westerners. The Sipah-i-Sahaba have even killed many of their own Sunni clerics, because the clerics rejected their divisive agenda. Often, implementing a skewed understanding of Islamic sharia (religious law) -- and not hatred of the West -- is their prime motivation.

http://www.genocidewatch.org/PakistanJune25RadicalMuslims.htm

In the extremist's mind...EVERYTHING is justified, and NOTHING in an infidels mind is justified...

And, with exceptions, the majority of the global Muslim community keeps its mouth shut...A) They agree with the extremists...or B)they are against the extremists, but fear retaliation.

Fundamentalists have hijacked the religion, and the peaceful Muslim community sits idly by and lets them.
 

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Surenderer, apparently under hallucinatory medication, wrote...

Sadly it seems you cant make a point without being disrespectful.......so next time before you respond to one of my posts perhaps this will help you

http://www.phonics-programs.com/



And, with exceptions, the majority of the global Muslim community keeps its mouth shut...A) They agree with the extremists...or B)they are against the extremists, but fear retaliation


Im sure that nothing would make you happier than to see Muslims killing more Muslims.....perhaps a change in foreign policy and stopping of hypocracy would do more?



Fundamentalists have hijacked the religion, and the peaceful Muslim community sits idly by and lets them.
[/QUOTE]


Only because YOU put them up to represent the whole religion....not me


Think before you type...this is what I said....

I don't claim to have the answer for "extremists" because I'm not one. I can only answer for myself and I'm not an extremist
 

cnredd

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Surenderer,

First you write...

Im sure that nothing would make you happier than to see Muslims killing more Muslims.....

and then later you write...

I can only answer for myself

Apparently, you have no problem answering for ME.

Overall...I believe you have, what I call, the apologist's creed...

If the USA does something, it's the USA's fault...If someone other than the USA does something, it's the USA's fault.
 

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Surenderer said:
You see things like this are the problem.......I greet you with "peace be upon you" and this is the response i get :(
Peace be upon you too. I didn't know what that ment. You know, an unknown sound, And hey, I did say bless you back.




Indeed true although I dont see Iran as bad as maybe you do....but Whabbi's(Saudi's) make up less than 1% of the worlds Muslims and Iranians(shiite) less than 20%(but please remember that all Shiites dont live in Iran so thats not 20% of the worlds Muslims)

From what I've learned these past few days these Whabbi's don't sound very.....religiuos like. In the sense of the word I'm used to. I think the Sunnis in Iraq are more upset about losing their sranglehold on power over the majority. Saddam was a bad guy in anyones book.


But was after the U.S. gave chemical weapons to Saddam which he used on his population.....or for that fact even the whole Iran Iraq fiasco or do you remeber the U.S. cruiser Vincennes when it downed a Iranian commercial airliner, killing 290 civilians etc etc etc..... There was alot of Arab hostility before the first WTC bombings
I admit and denounce that.



Of course the deaths of anyone innocent person...not just children is a tragedy.

That's the main thing I wanted to here. Aleem won't say that.




Me also....but suppose your country was invaded and your children were killed by mistake by a "smart"bomb?.....would you just shrug your shoulders and say "oh well"? suppose the deaths of your kids were labeled as "collateral damage"? Suppose the premise of that invasion was built on lies? would you be pissed? Most terrorist start from deaths of their kids or loved ones....sorrry it aint the religion
If we were doing to our people what Saddam was doing to his then we would deseve it.


No I'm African-American ;) .....I don't know Aleem but I don't think the fact that he is an Arab is any direct link to his being nasty(your words)

Didn't quite mean it like that but I get your point.


peace to you

Don't take any wooden nickles. See, now that's funny.
 

Surenderer

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cnredd said:
Surenderer,

First you write...



and then later you write...



Apparently, you have no problem answering for ME.

Overall...I believe you have, what I call, the apologist's creed...

If the USA does something, it's the USA's fault...If someone other than the USA does something, it's the USA's fault.



Not true bro....actually I blame the leaders of the M.E. more than I blame America....they are truely the evil ones in this mess....the Arab people are caught in the middle......but the U.S. isn't innocent in this whole mess
 

cnredd

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Not true bro....actually I blame the leaders of the M.E. more than I blame America....they are truely the evil ones in this mess....the Arab people are caught in the middle.

And yet America would like NOTHING BETTER for these Arab people caught in the middle to be free and democratic.

But the Arab people(You grouped them also) HATE America; the ones who want them to be free. My guess is because they are forcefed anti-American rhetoric from their governments...governments who, you say, are more to blame.

It took a twelve-year war for America to gain freedom. 1400 years and counting for the Middle East.
 

Surenderer

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It took a twelve-year war for America to gain freedom. 1400 years and counting for the Middle East.
[/QUOTE]


:lol: ....thats funny Were Blacks free at the end of those 12 yrs.? If so why is there affirmative action still in the year 2005? how about Native Americans? how about women? are they treated equally? Seen any Gays openly serving their country? Gimmie a break :roll:



But the Arab people(You grouped them also) HATE America; the ones who want them to be free. My guess is because they are forcefed anti-American rhetoric from their governments...governments who, you say, are more to blame.



American doesn't really want freedom for the Arab people......if they did they would start with the most oppressive regime over there (House of Saud) which just so happens to be their best friend. The Governments are more to blame because they have "Uncle Tom'ed" their people to bend to Western whims for oil and strategic dominance
 

teacher

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rican doesn't really want freedom for the Arab people......if they did they would start with the most oppressive regime over there (House of Saud) which just so happens to be their best friend. The Governments are more to blame because they have "Uncle Tom'ed" their people to bend to Western whims for oil and strategic dominance
[/QUOTE]

I really think our leaders do want freedom for the whole world surrenderer. We decided the best place to start was Iraq. We were already there. The job (militarily) mostly done. No doubt the oil is a concern. Free Iraq and then the neighboring countries oppressed people gain some hope. Maybe put more pressure on their leaders. Possible change from within. We already are distancing ourselves from the house of Saud. Pulling military out. Saddam was not loved by the rest of the Arab world. To attack a Islamic country with such holy sites as Mecca would bring down the Muslim world on the US way more than Iraq. Establishing a democracy in Iraq is more feasible than in Saudi Arabia. Let instead free Iraq be an example. The oil. Get the oil flowing again from Iraq and OPEC loses some power. Makes them more likely to bargain. Consider the pressure of the world to improve human rights. Saddam was evil. Surely most of the ME understands that. They had no problem with us kicking Saddam out of Kuwait. Do we run that country now? If we were truly imperialists we would be. We liberated Kuwait and left. Oh yea, your welcome. This will take time. Free Iraq leads the way. They will gain control of that country. When the US is out of Iraq and then Iraq is only attacked by Arabs not wanting the people there to decide their own future, which way will ME and world opinion turn? When Arabs are blowing up Arabs elected by Arabs no one will be able to be able to point the finger at the US. When has the US ever stayed in a country able to defend for itself?
 

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teacher said:
Don't take any wooden nickles. See, now that's funny.

Your whole post is. Whilst it is true what has been said about US support for Iraq, the thread is about Islam and Islam is one faith that encourages people to war for their faith.

Giving them the weapons was a mistake.
 
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