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What's wrong with a real discussion of IQ?

Why Can't We Talk About IQ? - Jason Richwine, Politico

Political correctness should not impede the search for real solutions.:peace

If the author of this op/ed where to take an IQ test, I suspect he would fail. Let's look at the very first paragraph:

“IQ is a metric of such dubiousness that almost no serious educational researcher uses it anymore,” the Guardian’s Ana Marie Cox wrote back in May. It was a breathtakingly ignorant statement. Psychologist Jelte Wicherts noted in response that a search for “IQ test” in Google’s academic database yielded more than 10,000 hits — just for the year 2013.

Notice that this does not address how the term "IQ test" is being used. If(and this is clear exaggeration to make a point, don't take it literally as me claiming this) that was 10k academic papers researching why IQ tests are so badly failed as a means to measure intelligence, it would still show 10k returns. Or to illustrate it another way: flat earth - Google Scholar. A google scholar search on "flat earth" gives us "About 1,250,000 results (0.13 sec)".

So we are left with the conclusion that either the author does not know how to do basic research, or he is attempting to mislead with something that sounds really good. Either way, he is hardly what I would consider a good source of information.
 
I think we should not be afraid.:peace
I quite agree. So let's unburden ourselves of the desire to attribute to labels, values they do not deserve. Come on, Jack. You don't really believe that some people are 'born to follow' do you?
 
Why Can't We Talk About IQ? - Jason Richwine, Politico

Political correctness should not impede the search for real solutions.

I do not believe it is meaningless, and neither do most serious students of the topic.

Why not deal with the data instead of treating us to an unrequested survey of your personal beliefs?

That is a thoroughly uninformed assertion.

Gardner is a good man who wants to help people. Analytically his work is incoherent, and falls short of relevance in this discussion. He is is of the "wishing can make it so" school of thought.

Did you read the posted article?

You've done it badly to death.

The data is the data.

I think we should not be afraid.

If you have data that would support that assertion then it would add value to the discussion.

So far as I'm aware, no one claims more than a statistical likelihood, with no meaning regarding any individual test.

Not so in the research under discussion here.

Then you are correct that you're not interested enough to be in the discussion.

*Yawn*

Another thread started with a link to an article about a controversial issue, and a call for discussion

After which, the OP refuses to offer any discussion other than calling names to anyone who disagrees with the OP
 
Whether it's due to their culture ....or due to genetics ....the Han Chinese (92% of China's population) are the smartest people on earth....the end.

Perhaps. But to bring another aspect into the discussion, it has been noted that the vaunted Chinese and Japanese intelligence is more on the order of existing knowledge retention rather than actual creativity, which has served the European races so well. Some credence is lent to this theory by the widely recognized ongoing need for international protection of American patents.
 
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Why Can't We Talk About IQ? - Jason Richwine, Politico

Political correctness should not impede the search for real solutions.:peace

Nothing's wrong with the discussion of IQ. Problems stir when people fail to realize that there are numerous other factors which go into the standing intelligence of an individual. 'What someone knows' relies on many factors:

Access to decent education.
Adequate nutrition.
A supporting, well rounded, and stable home where the parent or parents are concerned for the child's educational well being.
A stance against drug use and abuse.
Encouragement on a social and cultural level that education is important, which should show in how a culture/society constructs it's school systems and approaches the concept of teaching. Failing schools that don't care = failing students who don't care.

All an IQ is going to tell you: everyone is educated differently and those who are educated to a lesser degree, will not score as well.

There are seven types of intelligence, the IQ test, though it boasts it measure aptitude accurately, does not. It is inherently flawed.

Further, it's tiring - this whole topic when it comes to race - African Americans represent only a sliver of the world's population of African-hailing individuals. We have stacked things against them to a hideous degree from the moment that the colonies decided they were necessary. In essence; people want to analyze a few which were routinely boxed in and shoved aside, and claim they've uncovered a truth.

Anyone whose remotely intelligence will be able to recognize these basic factors, it's not very complicated.
 
I could argue that since they have always been the largest population group on Earth they had a higher probability of genius level individual mutations. Those individuals were responsible for all the advances the rest of the "common non-smartest" Han depended on. I could, but I won't end your story that way. LOL ;)

Spin it anyway you want bud ....when I deal with Chinese they always demonstrate this cerebral superiority ....without even trying. When you see a ..."non-smart" Chinese in America ....often it's because he's more American than he is Chinese. In addition ....be careful about history ....much of the history you learn in America has been scrubbed and scrubbed and scrubbed.

I now think back on some of those great American scientific achievements ...and wonder who was it that really made those discoveries.

Who was shoved in the closet while some white guy took credit for their work. Just imagine a Chinese or black guy making some scientific discovery back then ...do you actually think whites ...with their guns ....were ever going to stand by and "lionize" those people historically?

So I go by what I see around me today ...and have to believe that ...that's a better pointer to what happen in the past.....rather than what's written in books that's only written by white men.

And today ...on average ...over and over again the Han Chinese show themselves intellectually superior to any other race!!
 
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Another day, another white people are more intelligent than other races thread.

:roll:
 
Another day, another white people are more intelligent than other races thread.

:roll:

Yes. It wouldnt be so damned annoying if those people were interested in truths and how to improve schools in crap neighborhoods, etc
 
I am not convinced that IQ tests are free of cultural bias.

A persons worth as an effective and productive employee or business owner (our society's main measure of a person's worth) involves a lot more than IQ. Among other qualities, ability to concentrate focus on a task is much more important.

It is also my observation as an instructor is that an excessive stress level is more of a barrier to learning than innate intelligence. I taught technical content and many "smart" people had trouble learning because they were afraid of technology. That is why kids tend to do well with mastering new technology-lack of fear.
 
I am not convinced that IQ tests are free of cultural bias.

A persons worth as an effective and productive employee or business owner (our society's main measure of a person's worth) involves a lot more than IQ. Among other qualities, ability to concentrate focus on a task is much more important.

It is also my observation as an instructor is that an excessive stress level is more of a barrier to learning than innate intelligence. I taught technical content and many "smart" people had trouble learning because they were afraid of technology. That is why kids tend to do well with mastering new technology-lack of fear.

Oh absolutely - they're 100% culturally biased. People who are less educated are not going to be able to read an IQ test and understand the questions. . . that doesn't mean that, with proper instruction, they wouldn't be able to figure out the answer otherwise.

They need to create a test that's not based on literacy and reading cognition. And since the one in place is bunk, I'm sure any attempts other wise will be just as problematic.

And I get what you mean about tech-aversion. Frustration and other barriers get in the way.
 
Why Can't We Talk About IQ? - Jason Richwine, Politico

Political correctness should not impede the search for real solutions.:peace

i will keep it simple, there are some people who are born smarter than other people, and in the world we live in today you have some who cant stand this fact.
 
Most serious students lend it no credence
as being indicative of anything beyond itself.

Thats a baseless claim.

My kids were tested to be in the High 120s and I have one who's in the High 130s.

They've been in accelearated gifted since grade school and are fortunate enough to be in a District that recognizes and then teaches to their level.

Hi IQ runs in my family and with it a direct correlation to to that persons achievments.

Their classmates are also accelerated and also possess high IQ's.

The twisted concept that we should all be taught down based on the lowest common denominator is whats behind the delegitimazation of standardized intelligence testing.
 
Another day, another white people are more intelligent than other races thread.

:roll:

I see it as another desperate attempt to justify their efforts to cling to power.
 
Oh absolutely - they're 100% culturally
biased. People who are less educated are not going to be able to read an IQ test and understand the questions. . . that doesn't mean that, with proper instruction, they wouldn't be able to figure out the answer otherwise.

They need to create a test that's not based on literacy and reading cognition. And since the one in place is bunk, I'm sure any attempts other wise will be just as problematic.

And I get what you mean about tech-aversion. Frustration and other barriers get in the way.

There are SEVERAL types of intelligence test that don't depend on the user's ability to read.

They are culturally biased because some cultures don't see education as a worthwhile endeavor so they test poor after generations of neglect.
 
There are SEVERAL types of intelligence test that don't depend on the user's ability to read.

They are culturally biased because some cultures don't see education as a worthwhile endeavor so they test poor after generations of neglect.

No, they are cultural bias because some people some kids don't have the chance of a good education. Example chicago.
 
They need to rewrite the Bell Curve. It seems like everyone in real life that tells me they have some genius level IQ has the most average job/life.
 
No, they are cultural bias because some
people some kids don't have the chance of a good education. Example chicago.

LOL !!!

Yes Chicago, or worse Detroit, where their School District President is basically functionally illiterate.

You don't understand the concept of " IQ " testing do you. One of my daughters was tested in 2cnd Grade.

It is NOT a measure of EDUCATION but a MEASURE OF BASE INTELLIGENCE.

It CAN be attributed even through genetics.

No, the ghettos and their under performing schools are not the fault of " the man" , " the white man", the rich man" or lack of funds.

It is the fault of the people in live in that area. There is a price to be paid for purposeful ignorance.

Libs and Democrats have been selling the people in the ghetto snake oil and promises for years, blaming their condition on everyone and everything but the real issue at hand.

Its why those areas don't improve.
 
They need to rewrite the Bell Curve. It seems like everyone in real life that
tells me they have some genius level IQ has the most average job/life.

Two of my Cousins tested in the low 140s, they both went into Petro-Chemistry and make allot of money.

One gets to travel quite a bit.

For every high IQ individual that flames out or gets into drugs, ( allot of drug addicts have a higher than average IQ ), there are multiples of them that succeed.
 
Two of my Cousins tested in the low 140s, they both went into Petro-Chemistry and make allot of money.

One gets to travel quite a bit.

For every high IQ individual that flames out or gets into drugs, ( allot of drug addicts have a higher than average IQ ), there are multiples of them that succeed.

I'm amazed that so many people test for IQ. I've never taken an IQ test. Neither has my brother. Is it some big suburban thing that all their kids get tested?
 
So that means only white folks that score well on IQ tests can be the only one's that think they mean something and the rest all sit in their cages and fling poo?
 
LOL !!!

Yes Chicago, or worse Detroit, where their School District President is basically functionally illiterate.

You don't understand the concept of " IQ " testing do you. One of my daughters was tested in 2cnd Grade.

It is NOT a measure of EDUCATION but a MEASURE OF BASE INTELLIGENCE.

It CAN be attributed even through genetics.

No, the ghettos and their under performing schools are not the fault of " the man" , " the white man", the rich man" or lack of funds.

It is the fault of the people in live in that area. There is a price to be paid for purposeful ignorance.

Libs and Democrats have been selling the people in the ghetto snake oil and promises for years, blaming their condition on everyone and everything but the real issue at hand.

Its why those areas don't improve.

Genetic determinism no long is accepted in the Scientific Field. BioChemistry has made large leaps.

Epigenetic, characteristics stem cells, NON- Coding DNA. Please read before you post .
 
If there is cultural bias in IQ tests, how come asians also score very high?

Look. IQ is not as important as willpower and determination. Having a discussion about it and blaming issues on it is not a good idea. There is no correlation between IQ and success and there is correlation between IQ and being good at stuff.

There are tons of white rednecks in the backwater towns. There are plenty of asians who work the streets and minimum wage jobs. And there are plenty of people from all races in bad positions and bad jobs due to illiteracy or whatever.

In our world, IQ is probably the least important to determine success. As I said, willpower, determination, drive, ambition... that's the ticket. Not race-related IQ tests.

Also, we are beginning to understand intelligence a bit better. As some poster said just the other page, there are various kinds of intelligence and we do have tests for each of them. We just don't know if the tests we give for each kind of intelligence is the best one. We are still exploring this. It's new ground.
So lets' not talk about IQ as a definitive issue. It's not.
 
I'm amazed that so many people test for IQ. I've never taken an IQ test.

Neither has my brother. Is it some big suburban thing that all their kids get tested?

It was more prevalent when I was younger I think for kids to get tested.

Now, not so much. My daughter was tested through her school when she was relatively young and it wasn't based on her education.

Don't get me wrong, it's not a prerequisite for success or hapiness or even education. It's just a objective measure of intelligence that some people don't put any stock into.


The " IQ " test that are online ? Bunk.
 
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