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What's with this particular train of thought???

BmanMcfly

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Ok, a while back I posted this little tidbit in the financial times of london, and brought up the demographic that might read such a thing... but anyway :
FT.com / US & Canada - Obama faces growing credibility crisis (free subscription required, sorry)

Robert Gibbs, Barack Obama’s chief spokesman, got into hot water this week for daring to speak the truth – that the Democrats could lose control of the House of Representatives in November. But it could be even worse than that.

...

“The bottom line here is that Americans don’t believe in President Obama’s leadership,” says Rob Shapiro, another former Clinton official and a supporter of Mr Obama. “He has to find some way between now and November of demonstrating that he is a leader who can command confidence and, short of a 9/11 event or an Oklahoma City bombing, I can’t think of how he could do that.”

In private, informal advisors to Mr Obama are almost as negative. According to one, the US public’s loss of confidence in Mr Obama’s leadership is a factor above and beyond their dissatisfaction over the state of the real economy, which continues to slow as last year’s $787bn stimulus starts to run dry. The adviser, who asked to remain anonymous, said the public did not know what Mr Obama really believed. Examples include his lukewarm support last year for a public option in the healthcare bill and his equally lukewarm support today for a Senate bill that would extend unemployment insurance and aid state governments to keep teachers in their jobs.

In both cases, Mr Obama has offered only token, negotiable, support. “I never thought I would say this, but even I’m unsure what President Obama really believes,” says the adviser. “Instead of outsourcing decisions to Congress, he should spell out his bottom line. That is what leaders are for.”
Edited for brevity, simply the different stats on people thinking he's a muslim, or kenyan, or socialist, etc...

That was back in July.

I was expecting this to be a foreshadowing of some sort of pre-election event to maintain support for the democrats. There was a relative non-event where allegedly planes leaving Yemen contained 'suspicious packages', ink cartridges it turns out, that had been somehow explosive.... The catch being that the Yemen government denies that ANY such flight left it's air space in the 48 hours where this was supposed to have happened. Though there were some real bombs that went off in some countries, but once again this was 'masterminded' by anwar al-awlaki. Apparently the number 3 mastermind of al-quaida surrounding 9-11.

This guy is supposedly a key component in virtually every terrorist attack of the past few years. If this guy is now the brains of al-quaida, it's a REAL step down (if we're going to accept the official version of 9-11), I mean, going from these super-intricate and devastating mega-attacks to using the services of drugged out, half-retarded and/ or a mental patient to perform these attacks that are supremely over-hyped.

BUT, the problem with awlaki being 'responsible' and the brains of al-quaida... HOW COME this guy was dining at the pentagon???

Qaeda-Linked Imam Dined at Pentagon after 9/11 - CBS News

Now, this is a wanted man as it is... and consider, if you or I walked into the pentagon do you think that you would have lunch with ANYONE?? Nevermind pentagon brass??

Point being it's all staged... but more importantly, this now comes up again :

YouTube - Mark Penn Says Obama Needs Another Oklahoma City Bombing To 'Click' With The Country!

and EVEN GLEN BECK brings this up :

Beck claims the left is "setting up another Oklahoma City," which will be blamed on him | Media Matters for America

Look at Obama, his approval rating is getting close to the approval rating of herpes... how desperate do you think he might be to maintain power into 2012 and beyond??

They don't say 'another big event' or some generality... it is the consensus a 'new OKC BOMBING'... why would that be??

For the usual debunkers, if all of a sudden a truck bomb goes off in some federal building... are you still going to accept what is told about who perpetrated the attacks?? God forbid that happens... but what do you think 'buying back into Obama' might entail??? Or do you think Obama's just going to ride out his term and leave the most hated president in the history of america?? Or do you think he might want to hold onto that power??
 

BmanMcfly

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No comments?

Are the debunkers trying too hard to come up with a lie to justify these things and so just ignoring them?
 

usda select

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No comments?

Are the debunkers trying too hard to come up with a lie to justify these things and so just ignoring them?
Why comment? You're lying. I see who the poster is and just know all information contained in the post is a lie. Experience has taught me very well.
 
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spud_meister

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Qaeda-Linked Imam Dined at Pentagon after 9/11 - CBS News

Now, this is a wanted man as it is... and consider, if you or I walked into the pentagon do you think that you would have lunch with ANYONE?? Nevermind pentagon brass??
Perhaps you should read your own article.
In 2001, the FBI did not share this investigative information with the Pentagon, but officials say there was no reason to - Awlaki was not a suspect and was not believed to be connected to the 9/11 attacks. Instead he was viewed as a valuable liaison to the Muslim community and a potential investigative source. As one official put it, "he was a much different guy back then."
The Pentagon had no knowledge he was linked to 9/11, and they dines him so they could reach out to the Muslim population.

And as for the rest, 'cause a few people say that Obama needs a terrorist attack to win the election, you want us to think that means he's going to stage a terrorist attack? You're a bloody genius. :roll:
 

Barbbtx

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No comments?

Are the debunkers trying too hard to come up with a lie to justify these things and so just ignoring them?
I knew most the individual pieces. You posting them altogether sort of makes me not have anything to say. You're right on and it's frightening.
 

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue

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No comments?
Or maybe some peoples opinion pieces are just not that worthy of comment !!!

Are the debunkers trying too hard to come up with a lie to justify these things and so just ignoring them?
How can you "justify" things that have never happened, and most likely never will ???

Opionions are not facts !!!
 

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue

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Look at Obama, his approval rating is getting close to the approval rating of herpes... how desperate do you think he might be to maintain power into 2012 and beyond??
And what new little conspiracy will you latch onto when he is voted out and just leaves ???

... why would that be??
Products of fertile imaginations most likely !!!

Are Beck and Penn some sort of psychics or soothsayers ... whose every word comes true ???

Or more likely just morons mouthing off !!!

For the usual debunkers, if all of a sudden a truck bomb goes off in some federal building... are you still going to accept what is told about who perpetrated the attacks?? God forbid that happens... but what do you think 'buying back into Obama' might entail???
And what will you do when absolutely nothing happens ???

Will you accept that your conspiracy gullibility led you to be overly paranoid for nothing ???

Or will you just seamlessly segue into some new claim ... just ignoring this previous one, which turned out without foundation or merit ???

Time shall see whom proves correct ... I feel supremely confident in my own side though !!!

Or do you think Obama's just going to ride out his term and leave the most hated president in the history of america??
I hardly think he will rate "the" most hated and will probably just accept defeat gracefully.

Or do you think he might want to hold onto that power??
Doesn't your country have a two-term limit ... so no matter how much any one person wished to hold onto power, short of taking on dictatorship they would be out after the next term anyway ???

Besides what power anyway ... according to you they are all just dangling puppets, so why would he need fight to hold onto such "none" power anyway, surely since "you" know how little he counts, he must, by now, see it too ... :roll:
 

BmanMcfly

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Why comment? You're lying. I see who the poster is and just know all information contained in the post is a lie. Experience has taught me very well.
Ok, where am I lying? What specifically? Prove that this is a LIE rather then a misunderstanding?

Otherwise, stop trolling my threads... it's pathetic.

Perhaps you should read your own article.
I know EXACTLY what it SAYS... BUT, here's the situation :
a) Anwar al-awlaki is a well respected person in the muslim community, and speaks about pushing for peace, and all the good rhetoric
b) after 9-11 Exclusive | Ray Suarez: My Post-9/11 Interview With Anwar al-Awlaki | Online NewsHour | Nov. 11, 2009 | PBS
The imam also had several encounters with al-Qaida figures. In 2000, he met two of the 9/11 hijackers, Khalid al-Midhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, at a San Diego mosque where al-Awlaki preached. The 9/11 Commission report says the men "respected al-Awlaki as a religious figure and developed a close relationship with him." They were aboard the plane that crashed into the Pentagon.
[/quote](There is from the addendum to the article, and so is an afterthought, and is part of it's own context, the author means what he writes, and only makes the point of the statement it makes, this article doesn't make ALL the connections but that's fine)
C) He gets invited to dine at the pentagon
D) The shoe-bomber (why you take your shoes off at the airport) has a failure, the guys mentally deficient character that was probably whacked out on drugs... Then there was the guy so retarded he couldn't blow his own balls off, and just in time for the rolling out of the body scanners, airport passengers are given the choice of being mildly radiated or be sexually assaulted publicly. There's more... The Fort Hood shooter had contacted awlaki prior to his attack... now, all that happens is that people are drawn to awlaki so that they 'develop a connection to al-quaida'... then when the legitimate crazy / retarded / drugged out of their mind patsy goes and attempts an attack

Our view on war on terror: Yes, the U.S. can seek to kill an American terrorist abroad - USATODAY.com
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...sHeg?docId=8bd0434a840b4a33abf662d34 e9e4a8c
Prime suspect in cargo plane bomb plot: Anwar al-Awlaki | World news | The Guardian

But this is thoroughly unrelated to the sophistication of something like 9-11... what this "imam" is doing now is simply finding good patsies and radicalizing them into doing attacks, but most of them are so incapable that they can't even get the attacks right... but the governments are ALWAYS ready with their solution.


The Pentagon had no knowledge he was linked to 9/11, and they dines him so they could reach out to the Muslim population.
I'm willing to concede that... BUT considering WHAT DOES THAT SAY that Awlaki, since has become the 'alquaida mastermind'??

And as for the rest, 'cause a few people say that Obama needs a terrorist attack to win the election, you want us to think that means he's going to stage a terrorist attack?
In a sense, Obama kinda did... that failed printer cartridge bomber from a planes originating supposedly from Yemen (though they deny that ANY SUCH PLANES left the country within the 48 hours prior to this coming out)... the original tests showed no explosives until Obama told the european police to test it again and 'voila' explosives... but that's really another issue... but if that is the case, which I may start a separate thread on the subject to dig deeper into that, that is STILL as much of a terrorist attack as if all those bombs detonated midair, just minus any death toll.

You're a bloody genius. :roll:
It's only 'genius' if you pull it off... if you are 'caught' you get strung up.... or you just pay enough people off to protect you and then write a book about your exploits. (ex : bush on torture).
 

BmanMcfly

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And what new little conspiracy will you latch onto when he is voted out and just leaves ???
No, Obama will get voted out... or possibly impeached, BUT if there was some sort of 'BIG event'... people might just forget about how they are losing their house, their jobs being shipped overseas, and the police state growing around them... and like Bush and Clinton have done before step up in the wake of tragedy and be a leader then people will turn to him and look to him for 'protection'... (in other words, when people are in fear they tend to approve of the leadership)

But, you are right... if enough people understand how a terrorist attack, staged or not, always benefits the governments agenda, and those that might perpetrate such an attack know that they will be called out if they do take advantage instead of following the agenda, then well... the attack might get called off, like operation northwoods for some unknown reason got called off.

Products of fertile imaginations most likely !!!
Well, it's being repeated by 3 people of relevance (clinton and obama advisers, and american media icon Glenn Beck (love him or hate him he speaks to millions of people per day))

Are Beck and Penn some sort of psychics or soothsayers ... whose every word comes true ???
No, of course not... Beck is pointing this out because he KNOWS he's going to be a target IF such a thing becomes true, and he may be a lot of things, but not a moron.

Penn and Gibbs on the other hand...

Or more likely just morons mouthing off !!!
Again, you cannot call these individuals morons. And if they are intelligent people mouthing off, what are the possible significant meanings?
I could see either, :
- The are 'predicting' such an event
- they are in knowledge that such an event is in the works
- They are giving 'advice' openly knowing that most people even given the knowledge will not react (aka they think people are sheep)


And what will you do when absolutely nothing happens ???
I HOPE nothing happens... I HOPE the attempt was just this feeble attempt at a 'terrorist' attack... just another 'win' for awlaki...

Will you accept that your conspiracy gullibility led you to be overly paranoid for nothing ???
No, I'm just putting out what OTHER PEOPLE are saying... these aren't just chumps off the street either, whether you like them or hate them. Then, people can come to a conclusion.

Or will you just seamlessly segue into some new claim ... just ignoring this previous one, which turned out without foundation or merit ???

Time shall see whom proves correct ... I feel supremely confident in my own side though !!!
If I had to put it to a simple statement, I am saying "IF there's a bomb that goes off at a federal building of sorts, that would qualify as an 'OKC' bombing.... OR, if a bomb goes off in Oklahoma again... it's general, cause I can only go off what renowned liars / politicians are saying. I'm surprised that Beck actually said so...

I hardly think he will rate "the" most hated and will probably just accept defeat gracefully.
That's the thing, I'm not saying this is going to happen, I'm just putting it out there, if something like this happens, we know who did it, who was talking about it and when.

Doesn't your country have a two-term limit ... so no matter how much any one person wished to hold onto power, short of taking on dictatorship they would be out after the next term anyway ???
Yes... However, it's not historically unprecedented for an elected 'dictator' to not relinquish control, or take full control. I don't think it'll be Obama because he's too much of a ... um.. limp wrist... but I'm just saying, it COULD happen... that was a bit of a concern with Bush with the way he was acting near the end. With the way the trend is going it will be the next guy that becomes the dictator, IF such a thing is going to happen.

Besides what power anyway ... according to you they are all just dangling puppets, so why would he need fight to hold onto such "none" power anyway, surely since "you" know how little he counts, he must, by now, see it too ... :roll:
No, he has perceived power, what he says people do... he is treated with gravitas and the epitome of power. Also, consider the concept of 'social darwinism'. It is 'only the strong survive'. Now, Obama is a puppet because "special (nameless) interests" gave him the funding to get himself elected, and in so doing he is in 'debted' to those 'special interest' and so they get to tell him what to say, what to do, maybe even how to dress... all from behind the scenes.

In other words... where you think Obama tells the writers what to put in the script, the reality is that Obama is GIVEN the script to read. The same was true with each president going back at least as far as JFK... and getting worse.

It's not 'control', it's 'influence'... Just like nobody controls me... BUT I'm influenced by the corporation to work in exchange for money, which is not the most important thing in the world, but it is reasonably close to the importance of breathing. Different circumstances will provide for different influencing factors.
 

BmanMcfly

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I just wanted to re-iterate an important question in all of this :

If, GIVEN THESE PEOPLE'S mentions, that some terrorist attack of the same level as an OKC bombing occurs, are you going to simply accept what is said about this?
 

usda select

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Ok, where am I lying? What specifically? Prove that this is a LIE rather then a misunderstanding?

Otherwise, stop trolling my threads... it's pathetic.
You lied in the past.
You admitted that you are, in fact, a liar.

So why should anybody trust anything you say going forward? Are you going to, all of the sudden, start telling the truth?

I doubt it. So that is why few, if any, get worked up about topics you start or any comment you make. Basically you'll say anything; because you sir, are an admitted liar.
 

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usda select

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usda select

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Amazing how that was drummed up to the sponsoring a terrorist attack. I'm sure Obama will take advice from Penn...the guy who steered Hillaryland's into the ground and snatched defeat from the Jaws of victory.

B"man" is just making stuff up again. He lies. He lies frequently
I apologize to the community. From now on, I'll just use the citation.

Ok... once again... let's agree that I'm a liar...
Is there any reason to trust future debates?
 

BmanMcfly

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I apologize to the community. From now on, I'll just use the citation.

Is there any reason to trust future debates?
Is there any reason to trust you that you lack the honesty to even use the full quote??? You know, the part where I added : "Ok... once again... let's agree that I'm a liar, now look at the facts and sources to make the point."

Which I said in the hopes that it might lead you to debating honestly, but instead you use the section of a quote to troll my threads. Just because you don't like where the facts point doesn't make ME a liar... I just said that so that you'd look at the facts...is it cause I gave you too much credit that you would do this?

But for the sake of fairness; what part was I lying about SPECIFICALLY, in this thread, that makes your point valid???

Was it about awlaki dining at the pentagon? About Awlaki's involvement in other attacks? About the people discussing Obama's need to connect with the people? Something different??

Vindication time friend, time to show people which one of us was talking out of a^& and which one is talking truthfully. If you can't, a simple apology for the attempted libel should suffice.
 

usda select

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Is there any reason to trust you that you lack the honesty to even use the full quote??? You know, the part where I added : "Ok... once again... let's agree that I'm a liar, now look at the facts and sources to make the point."
Sir; after you state:

I'm a liar
There is no reason to go on after that. Because once you admit to such a thing, EVERYTHING you say after that in any context is cast in a jaundiced light.
 
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spud_meister

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In a sense, Obama kinda did... that failed printer cartridge bomber from a planes originating supposedly from Yemen (though they deny that ANY SUCH PLANES left the country within the 48 hours prior to this coming out)... the original tests showed no explosives until Obama told the european police to test it again and 'voila' explosives... but that's really another issue... but if that is the case, which I may start a separate thread on the subject to dig deeper into that, that is STILL as much of a terrorist attack as if all those bombs detonated midair, just minus any death toll.
Just on this, if what these people say os true, and Obama will stage am "Oklahoma City" like event to win the election, why would he do it in Europe?
 

BmanMcfly

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Just on this, if what these people say os true, and Obama will stage am "Oklahoma City" like event to win the election, why would he do it in Europe?
That's a good question... this is a multi-faceted issue... and I didn't say that this was DEFINITIVELY the case. However, it was a reported fact that the first test for explosives came back negative, then Obama DID reportedly call european law enforcement and told them to test it again, and this was with the time difference almost simultaneously ... It was ALSO reported by the Yemen govt that was supposedly where these flights originated, that they completely denied that ANY such flights left ANY of their airports for the 48 hours prior to this discovery.

Now whatever the case is, those are reported facts that haven't been retracted. I don't know the full story, but at a certain point I don't see how you couldn't tell that something smells funny in this situation.

Edit : While there's something that seems wrong with this ink cartridge explosive, this hardly qualifies as what was described as the level of 'desperation' of Obama's regime needing the effect of a terrorist attack to retain control. I wouldn't call this attack being of the calliber of attack being suggested.

Further, I hope this is doesn't end up happening, I'd much rather see Obama turn in the reigns at the end of his first term as the biggest fail president since Bush Jr... at least people might still remember what the republicans brought... and we might elect someone with a track record of honesty and integrity and who speaks for the will of the people.
 
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I_Gaze_At_The_Blue

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However, it was a reported fact that the first test for explosives came back negative, then Obama DID reportedly call european law enforcement and told them to test it again, and this was with the time difference almost simultaneously ...
How do you know this is correct B'man ... for every source says no US involvement ... and certainly no such calls from Obama.

So where did you get this claim from ... is it a relieble source or just made up crud from conspiracy sites, whom routinely lie ???

"The bombs were found after a tip-off from Saudi authorities and were pulled off US-bound planes in England and Dubai"

BBC News - Yemen parcel bomb 'was 17 minutes from exploding'

"HOW DID BRITISH POLICE MISS A DEVICE?

The initial search of the UPS plane at East Midlands airport was conducted by officers from Leicestershire police, and not by specialist counter-terrorist officers from Scotland Yard
."

"However, it was only after another device was discovered in Dubai that a second examination of the package was conducted in Leicestershire, uncovering explosive materials. It raises questions about why foreign agencies were able to identify the threat when British police failed to do so adequately"

Yemen bomb plot: key questions raised - Telegraph


It was ALSO reported by the Yemen govt that was supposedly where these flights originated, that they completely denied that ANY such flights left ANY of their airports for the 48 hours prior to this discovery.
Reported by whom ???

For I can find no such claim ... besides which why would the Yemen authorities ARREST someone on suspicion of POSTING the parcels if they did not originate there ???

"Yemeni police arrested a medical student believed to be in her twenties in the capital, Sana'a, together with her mother.

It is believed a SIM card found attached to the Dubai bomb was linked to the woman. And 24 suspicious parcels were being examined at Yemen’s international airport
."

"Yemeni President Ali Abdullah Saleh said the U.S. and the United Arab Emirates had provided him with information that helped identify the woman as a suspect."

"The Yemeni prosecution authority shut down offices belonging to UPS, FedEx and DHL in Sana'a."

"Qatar Airways says the bomb was carried on an Airbus A320 from Yemeni capital Sanaa to Doha where it was then transferred to another Qatar Airways plane to Dubai."

Dubai parcel bomb from Yeman was flown in on 2 passenger planes | Mail Online

So where did you get this idea that the Yemen authorities denied any such flight, sheduled cargo flights are kinda hard to keep secret ... here is a map of the countries and services provided by UPS ... guess what they have several UPS Facilites in Yemen itself ... Yemen is at the bottom of the Saudi Arabian landmass

http://www.upsdelivers.com/worldwide/Resources/World_map_poster.pdf
(you will need enlarge the pdf)

Yemen

Now whatever the case is, those are reported facts that haven't been retracted.
But whom were these reported "facts" made by ... anyone we should believe or some nutty conspiracy site whom all seem to have a habit of false reportage ???

I don't know the full story, but at a certain point I don't see how you couldn't tell that something smells funny in this situation.
Why does absolutely everything smell fishy to you ???

Is it truly impossible for things not to just be as they are reported in the mainstream news, for it seems stupid to me that a plot supposedly hatched to make Obama look good would be so readily taken up by foreign nations whom would just keep secret this.

One parcel was found here in the UK ... that is not America ... our own people would be equally at risk examining it ... so for what reason would the UK authorities and individuals go along with some US convoluted plot to make a foreign politician look good for some not very important US elections ... YOUR mid-terms have no importance or relevance to us abroad ???

So what would the UK gain by going along with this ???

NOTHING ... that is what ... so for what reason would a foreign sovereign nation take part in a "plot" which has zero gain for itself ???

Don't forget B'man that the UK has defied the might of the US before over such things as the Lockerbie bomber ... so we are not a nation whom just blindly follows American orders !!!

~~~~~~~~~~

But how come B'man you keep making all these kinds of claims and still NEVER provide much source material against which to further examine them by ???

You time and again make big claims and do not provide the sources or links most times ... it makes debate that much harder and slower, for it is difficult to test your claims without knowing where you are getting them from in the first place ... so how about in future if you make a claim ... such as Obama "telling" the UK law enforcement to test ... please then show where YOU got the claim from, for WITHOUT source material we can only take it as your unqualified, unverified "opinion" ... which counts for nothing really !!!
 

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You time and again make big claims and do not provide the sources or links most times ... it makes debate that much harder and slower, for it is difficult to test your claims without knowing where you are getting them from in the first place ... so how about in future if you make a claim ... such as Obama "telling" the UK law enforcement to test ... please then show where YOU got the claim from, for WITHOUT source material we can only take it as your unqualified, unverified "opinion" ... which counts for nothing really !!!
This may explain it:
Ok... once again... let's agree that I'm a liar...
 

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue

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Is there any reason to trust you that you lack the honesty to even use the full quote???
Perhaps this is to demonstrate the dangers of quote-mining to you !!!

And like it or not B'man the truth movement has HAD to rely, and rely heavily, on such tactics to make the claims of "explosions" and such like sound like they have even a modicum of credibility.

This shows why you need to look and examine FURTHER than just shortened quotes loudly touted as absolute pwoof !!!
 

BmanMcfly

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Perhaps this is to demonstrate the dangers of quote-mining to you !!!
Ya, especially providing quotes for someone using only a word or two...

And like it or not B'man the truth movement has HAD to rely, and rely heavily, on such tactics to make the claims of "explosions" and such like sound like they have even a modicum of credibility.
But ignoring many others... and then there are also many times where there are CLAIMS of quote mining or putting things out of context that have no basis.

This shows why you need to look and examine FURTHER than just shortened quotes loudly touted as absolute pwoof !!!
You'd think by now you could stop with the childish sleights... especially with how much you rely on strawman arguments and ad hom.

Anyway, now it's not just that these quotes are "all" taken out of proper context... it's that there was a COVER_UP OF THE FACT that even these "out of context shortened quotes" were EVEN MADE.
 

usda select

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Perhaps this is to demonstrate the dangers of quote-mining to you !!!

And like it or not B'man the truth movement has HAD to rely, and rely heavily, on such tactics to make the claims of "explosions" and such like sound like they have even a modicum of credibility.

This shows why you need to look and examine FURTHER than just shortened quotes loudly touted as absolute pwoof !!!
Ok... once again... let's agree that I'm a liar...
After that...what do you do? I mean...its like he's saying "I'm a liar...but hear me out." No thanks.
 

BmanMcfly

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After that...what do you do? I mean...its like he's saying "I'm a liar...but hear me out." No thanks.
No, I wasn't saying 'hear me out' I was saying read the friggin sources for a change.
 
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