What's the point of the Apocalypse?

[davidtaylorjr]

Yeah, but those events will happen anyway. What's the point of pointing them out?

Not sure I understand your question.....

 

[Canell]

Not sure I understand your question.....

Well, imagine someone made a prophecy that you would burn alive in a car crash. What's the point of knowing it years before it actually happens?

 

[davidtaylorjr]

Well, imagine someone made a prophecy that you would burn alive in a car crash. What's the point of knowing it years before it actually happens?

You wouldn't like to know you were going to die and how? I would find that interesting.

 

[Canell]

You wouldn't like to know you were going to die and how? I would find that interesting.

First of all, I would try to avoid such a terrible death, i.e. stay away from cars or at least kill my self with sleeping pills. Second, no, I don't want to know when I am going to die.

Do you like feeling doomed?

 

[Dittohead not!]

You wouldn't like to know you were going to die and how? I would find that interesting.

We all know that we're going to die. None of us thinks it will happen today or tomorrow, unless we've been diagnosed with some terrible disease. No, I wouldn't want to know. I'd rather go on, like most of us, thinking that I'll die at some unforeseen future time and living life without dwelling too much on the end of it.

Everybody wants to go to Heaven. Nobody wants to go now.

 

[davidtaylorjr]

We all know that we're going to die. None of us thinks it will happen today or tomorrow, unless we've been diagnosed with some terrible disease. No, I wouldn't want to know. I'd rather go on, like most of us, thinking that I'll die at some unforeseen future time and living life without dwelling too much on the end of it.

Everybody wants to go to Heaven. Nobody wants to go now.

Fair enough.

 

[Verthaine]

Sorry you don't accept historical documents, yet that is what we use to verify history all the time. :shrug:

The Illiad by Homer can be considered an "historical document".We find did the City of Troy,you know.
Does that mean that Achilles was actually invulnerable to weapons except for that little spot on his ankles?
Or that the Trojan war was actually started because of 3 Goddesses fighting over an Apple?

Just because somebody wrote something thousands of years ago does not mean that it actually happened the way they said it happened.

There is such a thing as "historical fiction".
If archaeologists thousands of years from now finds a copy of "Gone With The Wind" (which is set during an actual verifiable historical event,the Civil War) does that mean there was actually some guy named Rhett Butler who told some lady named Scarlet O'Hara that "frankly,I don't give a damn"?

 

[head of joaquin]

The OP raises an issue only if Revelations, and the numerous noncanonical works like it, were intended literally, or better stated, are texts we should take literally. Revelations' value isn't in a literally reading of it (which is virtually impossible since its replete with code and symbols). It's value is as a symbolic text for contemplating aescatological concerns, like is the universe ultimately just and what would that mean?

 

[nota bene]

You wouldn't like to know you were going to die and how? I would find that interesting.

In his "Essay on Man," Pope wrote about "blindness to the future, kindly given," and this is a gift.

 

[Surtr]

Howdy, people!

If the Apocalypse predicts bad (to say the least) things for humanity and the planet, what's the point of all this?
Is the Revelation of John a warning to be evaded or an inevitable nightmare to be lived through?

Do you think the Apocalypse is a self-fulfilling prophecy?

The way I always saw it is that it's going to happen one way or another, you can't do anything to stop it, so why worry about it?

 

[Captain Adverse]

Howdy, people!

If the Apocalypse predicts bad (to say the least) things for humanity and the planet, what's the point of all this?
Is the Revelation of John a warning to be evaded or an inevitable nightmare to be lived through?

Do you think the Apocalypse is a self-fulfilling prophecy?

Maybe it's God's "Reset" button. To start the game all over.

 

[Paschendale]

Okay, I have a question. And for this question, we'll take Revelations at face value. Prophecy, ordained by god, all of that. Suppose the antichrist is around, right now. Such a person knows who and what they are, right? They're probably literate, too, and can easily read the bible. Therefore, they can find out that their plan is doomed to fail. Would not an even remotely sane antichrist not do what is thus foretold in the bible? Either abandon their plan altogether or at least alter it, since the plan as written cannot succeed? Or if they can't change their destiny, and are doomed to play out this scenario, can we really call them evil? If they do not want to do an evil act, but have their free will curtailed by god and are forced to do evil, aren't they slaves being victimized by an evil god?

Of all the things in the bible, Revelations relies on a cunning villain either never reading the bible, being incapable of understanding it, being too detached from reality to understand the consequences and act to prevent them, or unable to make the decision for themselves. How do you reconcile that problem?

 

[Canell]

The OP raises an issue only if Revelations, and the numerous noncanonical works like it, were intended literally, or better stated, are texts we should take literally. Revelations' value isn't in a literally reading of it (which is virtually impossible since its replete with code and symbols). It's value is as a symbolic text for contemplating aescatological concerns, like is the universe ultimately just and what would that mean?

Of course I don't take it literally but the stuff is scary enough.

 

[Canell]

How do you reconcile that problem?

The thing is the Antichrist doesn't know he is the Antichrist. He thinks he is a Great Teacher and a Saviour. He is a sophist which doesn't know any better, imho.

 

[Dittohead not!]

If archaeologists thousands of years from now finds a copy of "Gone With The Wind" (which is set during an actual verifiable historical event,the Civil War) does that mean there was actually some guy named Rhett Butler who told some lady named Scarlet O'Hara that "frankly,I don't give a damn"?

Imagine a lone surviving book being unearthed thousands of years in the future, after mankind comes back from an unimaginable disaster that wipes out civilization, and then founding a religion on it.

Imagine that the person they believe God inspired to write the sacred text was named J. K. Rowling.

 

[Paschendale]

The thing is the Antichrist doesn't know he is the Antichrist. He thinks he is a Great Teacher and a Saviour. He is a sophist which doesn't know any better, imho.

Then if his intentions are good and he's only trying to help people, and from what I know of the story, largely succeeds, why is he the bad guy?

 

[digsbe]

The apocalypse is judgement day. It's the day that God judges the world with destruction for its sins and then makes a new one.

 

[radioman]

Don't we have one every few years? I think we're fairly overdue.

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No, no, no...........you're confusing our biennial elections with the apocalypse.
Not too unusual, though.
Many GOP commentators predicted Obama's re-election would be apocalyptic.

 

[radioman]

I actually saw Bigfoot driving a flying saucer ...

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Oh, please.
I saw that movie on SyFy, right after Sharknado.

 

[radioman]

Jesus actually beat Death though and came back to life, and will come back to destroy the forces of evil, Satan will be vanquished, and on that day at the name of Jesus every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD!

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Well, that all sounds great.....beats death, evil destroyed, Satan vanquished.....good times!!
Jesus wins big........I just hope he beats the point spread.

 

[OscarB63]

Howdy, people!

If the Apocalypse predicts bad (to say the least) things for humanity and the planet, what's the point of all this?
Is the Revelation of John a warning to be evaded or an inevitable nightmare to be lived through?

Do you think the Apocalypse is a self-fulfilling prophecy?

read a novel once where the author proposed that life is a test. according to him, in the beginning the creator made the universe and there was this huge mass of "soul stuff" that was a by product. the creator felt the need to classify this stuff as either "good" or "bad", so he/she created human life and imbued it with a soul. based on how the soul performed during its time on earth, it was classified as either good or evil. the good stuff goes up and the bad stuff goes down. Life on earth will continue until all of the soul stuff has been classified. :shrug: It made for interesting reading. I'll have to check to see if I can find it again. I remember the author was Piers Anthony and the book was one of the novels in his Incarnations of Immortality series

 

[Canell]

Then if his intentions are good and he's only trying to help people, and from what I know of the story, largely succeeds, why is he the bad guy?

Because he is a tyrant anyway, a dictator. eace
He is also called "the Deceiver", "the false prophet", "the phony Christ", etc.

 

[Paschendale]

Because he is a tyrant anyway, a dictator. eace
He is also called "the Deceiver", "the false prophet", "the phony Christ", etc.

Yes, I know he's ruling the world without being Jesus and that's apparently wrong, but his actual actions don't really suggest malice. Isn't he supposed to be really popular and unite the world in peace and prosperity?

 

[Canell]

Yes, I know he's ruling the world without being Jesus and that's apparently wrong, but his actual actions don't really suggest malice. Isn't he supposed to be really popular and unite the world in peace and prosperity?

Hardly. Well, if he succeeds in squashing all opposition of several billion people (including me) and let live only those who praise him, then yes, the world would be "single minded" and "peaceful". War is peace and vice versa. :roll:

 

[Paschendale]

Hardly. Well, if he succeeds in squashing all opposition of several billion people (including me) and let live only those who praise him, then yes, the world would be "single minded" and "peaceful". War is peace and vice versa. :roll:

Admittedly, it's been a while since I read Revelations, but I don't recall any squashing going on. I remember regulations on commerce, and telling people not to worship god, but nothing about genocide. At least not until Jesus starts emptying the bowls and everyone starts dying.