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What's Not In TODAY's (Yesterday's, a year ago, etc) NEWS (1 Viewer)

Davo The Mavo

Is Idiot Supreme
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:2dancing: "I wanna go Back, an do it all over" :2dancing: Eddie Money

Recently, I have noticed a few Diehards Flipping Over to the "This is gonna be a Long, tough, brutal fight" rational as it relates to Iraq----and the Central Front of the War on Terror. Despite the fact we did not go into Iraq because we intended to turn it into fly-paper, making Iraq the Central Front, the Ends Justifying the Means apologists have come full circle and are now using the reasons WHY those against the War from the start did not want to go to war in Iraq, as their excuse for why went there in the first place. Seriously, "Mission Accomplished" and "End of Major Combat Operations" never happened. Personally, I would be amused if it were not so tragic-----the consequences of a Nation's People having short term memory loss I mean.

American Forces officially entered Iraq on March 19th, 2003-----according to the plan, how many American troops were suppose to be left in Iraq by December of 2003? Come on Diehards, GW and Rummyhead are your guys, what was the original plan for number of troops in December of 2003? How about the Summer of 2004? How many troops did they project for being in Country in the Summer of 2004? To say NOW, that Georgie and his crew informed us long ago that this was going to be a long fight, is revisionist at best, and outright lying to ones self at the worst.

You see, had they actually planned for an Insurgency or the Foreign Terrorists, they would have never had the Mission Accomplished Ceremony on the U.S.S. Lincoln, they would not have declared an end to major combat, and they would not have projected such a small number of troops being needed a year after we invade, oh yeah, how did their troop withdrawal plan work out by the way? Don't worry, there is gonna be another 30,000 troops coming home soon, as long as the situation on the ground allows for it (GW/Rummyhead Disclaimer).

The good ole disclaimer----always slipped in at the end after you just have been told what you want to hear. And that disclaimer gets you out of trouble later when everything hits the fan. They have pulled this crap with troop reductions so many times I cannot count. I can understand why the Diehard doesn't want to remember the past, but what about the rest of us?

Yes, the Diehard has a knack of forgetting what they said in the past, especially if it contradicts an opinion or theory they used for an argument or debate previosly----to do that would mean to admit error. One thing the Diehards and GW have in common? They are NEVER wrong. However, why do the rest of us forget the old spin? Why doesn't the Media call this Administration on the true incompetent nature of their stewardship?

Just like his Father, GW is a Crisis Manager-----something going wrong, create a Crisis. Move from one Crisis to another in order to not ever having to address inconsistencies and errors from the past. "We could have never imagined" can no longer be used as an excuse----because as we all know now, many did imagine and predict exactly what is going on in Iraq, and they were either fired from leadership positions or demonized as terrorist collaborators for having an opinion that differed from the Chicken Hawks and the Diehards. Don't let them revise their rational----call them on their selective memory and their absurd and ridiculous claims. No one else is going to.
 
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DiavoTheMiavo said:
You see, had they actually planned for an Insurgency or the Foreign Terrorists, they would have never had the Mission Accomplished Ceremony on the U.S.S. Lincoln.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but not everything Michael Moore tells you is true. The Mission Accomplished ceremony was to honor the Navy officers aboard the USS Lincoln for the end of their long tour of duty.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/28/mission.accomplished/

"The banner signified the successful completion of the ship's deployment," he said, noting the Abraham Lincoln was deployed 290 days, longer than any other nuclear-powered aircraft carrier in history.
 
American Forces officially entered Iraq on March 19th, 2003-----according to the plan, how many American troops were suppose to be left in Iraq by December of 2003? Come on Diehards, GW and Rummyhead are your guys, what was the original plan for number of troops in December of 2003? How about the Summer of 2004? How many troops did they project for being in Country in the Summer of 2004?
Why don't you refresh our memory since I don't ever remember future troop numbers being mentioned back then.
 
DiavoTheMiavo said:
:2dancing: "I wanna go Back, an do it all over" :2dancing: Eddie Money

Recently, I have noticed a few Diehards Flipping Over to the "This is gonna be a Long, tough, brutal fight" rational as it relates to Iraq----and the Central Front of the War on Terror. Despite the fact we did not go into Iraq because we intended to turn it into fly-paper, making Iraq the Central Front, the Ends Justifying the Means apologists have come full circle and are now using the reasons WHY those against the War from the start did not want to go to war in Iraq, as their excuse for why went there in the first place. Seriously, "Mission Accomplished" and "End of Major Combat Operations" never happened. Personally, I would be amused if it were not so tragic-----the consequences of a Nation's People having short term memory loss I mean.
Let's just go to the actual text of Bush's speech on the day in question...

You must've missed this part...It's nothing new...

Bush said:
We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We are bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous. We are pursuing and finding leaders of the old regime, who will be held to account for their crimes. We have begun the search for hidden chemical and biological weapons, and already know of hundreds of sites that will be investigated. We are helping to rebuild Iraq, where the dictator built palaces for himself, instead of hospitals and schools. And we will stand with the new leaders of Iraq as they establish a government of, by, and for the Iraqi people. The transition from dictatorship to democracy will take time, but it is worth every effort. Our coalition will stay until our work is done. And then we will leave — and we will leave behind a free Iraq.
Why is it when the President comes right out and says these things, you come back two years later and say it's never been said?...:confused:
 
KCConservative said:
Sorry to burst your bubble, but not everything Michael Moore tells you is true. The Mission Accomplished ceremony was to honor the Navy officers aboard the USS Lincoln for the end of their long tour of duty.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/28/mission.accomplished/

Me and Michael Moore? You must have me confused with someone else. I was actually watching the "Show" that day----and I am sure all of you were as well. I didn't accept the rationale back then for the Banner just like I cannot accept that anyone here who remains committed to George Bush can honestly claim they suspected that Iraq would be like it is now in 2006.

I debated the Diehard back then too. Everything was unexpected though. I remember specifically stating the War was just getting started, and being told I was a Moron. You all (The Diehards) cannot seem to remember three or four days into the past, let alone back to that time apparently.

But I will give in because of such a great counter argument. You are right, you didn't hear what you wanted to hear and GW was just saying "welcome home" to the Lincoln. And then he said the war was gonna be really really hard and never implied that Major Combat Operations were over, or said it for that matter. You can semantic any meaning you want to his words at anytime as long as it fits the current day's talking point or rationalization----I understand that----I was so wrong. It wasn't dress up day and the greatest miscalculation he has made besides invading iraq.
 
Gill said:
Why don't you refresh our memory since I don't ever remember future troop numbers being mentioned back then.

From the Original "Second" Set of Numbers:

Invasion Force: 70,000, ahhh no, we can go 100K.

Forecasted Troop Strengths in the Plan:

Dec 2003-----60,000

Summer of 2004----40,000

Now, if you wish to remember these things more clearly, I suggest you look into the DOD's archive, and do some research. Rummyhead, Wolfy, and Pearly, along with my friend Feithbased were not shy about this plan initially you know. Why don't any of you Diehards remember anything but the stuff you want to hear at any specific time? Short term memory loss----definately a problem we face in this country.

"I don't ever Remember"----you said a mouthful.
 
DiavoTheMiavo said:
From the Original "Second" Set of Numbers:

Invasion Force: 70,000, ahhh no, we can go 100K.

Forecasted Troop Strengths in the Plan:

Dec 2003-----60,000

Summer of 2004----40,000

Now, if you wish to remember these things more clearly, I suggest you look into the DOD's archive, and do some research. Rummyhead, Wolfy, and Pearly, along with my friend Feithbased were not shy about this plan initially you know. Why don't any of you Diehards remember anything but the stuff you want to hear at any specific time? Short term memory loss----definately a problem we face in this country.

"I don't ever Remember"----you said a mouthful.
Bush said that it would take a long to time to win the war and the "mission accomplished" ceremony was to honor the vets. Links have been provided.

Your case is pretty much......dead.

Heck, I'm not even a republican and I know this.

Accept it and find something better to argue, and argue it more intelligently. I'll provide an example
 
cnredd said:
Let's just go to the actual text of Bush's speech on the day in question...

You must've missed this part...It's nothing new...

Why is it when the President comes right out and says these things, you come back two years later and say it's never been said?...:confused:

Let me ask you this question because I admitted I was so stupid not to see the wisdom of George, IF we had 30,000 Troops there for the Next 50-or so years, we would still be there right? That is the plan right? Leases up on the Saudi Air bases? No sweat, we got a place to go now.

Things did not turn out like they planned (Flowers & Hugs), so the non existence of a counterinsurgencyand law enforcement plan kind of developed over time. Truly, they believed this war was gonna be like GW's love makin'----a quick in, a quick out, roll over and go to sleep.

It was not until Nov of 2003, that the Rummyhead Memo Leak representing a "Long Hard Slog" was brought out on the table. Until then the Diehard's believed it was gonna be over any day. I lived it, I remember. Diehards were as stubborn then as they are now----plus they are losing their memory.
 
My_name_is_not_Larry said:
Bush said that it would take a long to time to win the war and the "mission accomplished" ceremony was to honor the vets. Links have been provided.

Your case is pretty much......dead.

Heck, I'm not even a republican and I know this.

Accept it and find something better to argue, and argue it more intelligently. I'll provide an example


I guess you told me. I am so ashamed to be judged ahhhh, errrr, ahhhh unintillegently I guess----you know, by someone like you.
 
DiavoTheMiavo said:
Let me ask you this question because I admitted I was so stupid not to see the wisdom of George, IF we had 30,000 Troops there for the Next 50-or so years, we would still be there right?
Depends, you don't send everyone at once. 30,000 troops are sent to clear the way for more forces. Its a modern tactic.
It was not until Nov of 2003, that the Rummyhead Memo Leak representing a "Long Hard Slog" was brought out on the table. Until then the Diehard's believed it was gonna be over any day. I lived it, I remember. Diehards were as stubborn then as they are now----plus they are losing their memory.
Everyone thought it was going to be quick, just like when Washington warned us about political parties, we were warned by Bush that it was going to be a long war and we, the people, didn't heed it.
 
Diavo said:
because as we all know now, many did imagine and predict exactly what is going on in Iraq, and they were either fired from leadership positions or demonized as terrorist collaborators for having an opinion that differed from the Chicken Hawks and the Diehards.

Like who, for instance, was "fired from leadership positions or demonized as terrorist collaborators"?
 
DiavoTheMiavo said:
Me and Michael Moore? You must have me confused with someone else. I was actually watching the "Show" that day----and I am sure all of you were as well. I didn't accept the rationale back then for the Banner just like I cannot accept that anyone here who remains committed to George Bush can honestly claim they suspected that Iraq would be like it is now in 2006.

I debated the Diehard back then too. Everything was unexpected though. I remember specifically stating the War was just getting started, and being told I was a Moron. You all (The Diehards) cannot seem to remember three or four days into the past, let alone back to that time apparently.

But I will give in because of such a great counter argument. You are right, you didn't hear what you wanted to hear and GW was just saying "welcome home" to the Lincoln. And then he said the war was gonna be really really hard and never implied that Major Combat Operations were over, or said it for that matter. You can semantic any meaning you want to his words at anytime as long as it fits the current day's talking point or rationalization----I understand that----I was so wrong. It wasn't dress up day and the greatest miscalculation he has made besides invading iraq.

It's hard to admit when you're wrong or mistaken. Good job.
 
oldreliable67 said:
Like who, for instance, was "fired from leadership positions or demonized as terrorist collaborators"?

I am not going to get into semantics. Spin it anyway you want. I will give the Big Three only, but there were even retirments because of what was being witnessed (Zinni). The Big Three: Gen Shinseki (Yes he was Fired), Colin Powell (He wasn't asked back), and Anthony Principi (He too was not asked back). You want to be semantic, go ahead. All guys who had seen combat----go figure.

As far as being demonized and called sympathizers? You are kidding right? Again, that short term memory loss is a problem. People were never called America Haters and Crazy Left Wing Liberals on a par with the traitors like John Kerry or Jane Fonda.

All of a sudden we got Diehards coming out of the crawl space claiming we were warned BY GEORGE that Iraq was gonna be like it is (and we should have listened):confused: :confused: :spin: . Yet I spent the better part of 2-years debating these same Diehards about how there was a lot more death, destruuction, and chaos coming.

What did I get back in return?
The Central Front of the War on terror
Workin' Hard to bring Democracy and Freedom
Makin' Progress
Attacks are coming down
Casualties are coming down
A few Deadenders
The last throes
We have broken the back of the insurgency
Historic DAY!!! (At least five times)
Clinton said so
Clinton's fault
He never said imminent
Terror, Terrorism, Terrorist
WMD, WMD, WMD, WMD
We were attacked on 9/11
Not willing to take the chance
Fly Paper Strategy
The WMD is in Syria
Liberation of Millions
Purple Finger defeats Terror

AND NOW:

We were warned by George and we should have listened!!!!!



Cmon youse guyse, pick a position and stick with it.
 
DiavoTheMiavo said:
I guess you told me. I am so ashamed to be judged ahhhh, errrr, ahhhh unintillegently I guess----you know, by someone like you.
I see you couldn't refute anything I said. your argumentation skills are....ehhhh ahhhhh, errrrr, good I guess-----since you know everything and nobody else matters.
 
KCConservative said:
It's hard to admit when you're wrong or mistaken. Good job.

Nice, I actually thought you could come up with something besides a one line quip.
 
DiavoTheMiavo said:
I am not going to get into semantics. Spin it anyway you want. I will give the Big Three only, but there were even retirments because of what was being witnessed (Zinni). The Big Three: Gen Shinseki (Yes he was Fired), Colin Powell (He wasn't asked back), and Anthony Principi (He too was not asked back). You want to be semantic, go ahead. All guys who had seen combat----go figure.

As far as being demonized and called sympathizers? You are kidding right? Again, that short term memory loss is a problem. People were never called America Haters and Crazy Left Wing Liberals on a par with the traitors like John Kerry or Jane Fonda.

All of a sudden we got Diehards coming out of the crawl space claiming we were warned BY GEORGE that Iraq was gonna be like it is (and we should have listened):confused: :confused: :spin: . Yet I spent the better part of 2-years debating these same Diehards about how there was a lot more death, destruuction, and chaos coming.

What did I get back in return?
The Central Front of the War on terror
Workin' Hard to bring Democracy and Freedom
Makin' Progress
Attacks are coming down
Casualties are coming down
A few Deadenders
The last throes
We have broken the back of the insurgency
Historic DAY!!! (At least five times)
Clinton said so
Clinton's fault
He never said imminent
Terror, Terrorism, Terrorist
WMD, WMD, WMD, WMD
We were attacked on 9/11
Not willing to take the chance
Fly Paper Strategy
The WMD is in Syria
Liberation of Millions
Purple Finger defeats Terror

AND NOW:

We were warned by George and we should have listened!!!!!



Cmon youse guyse, pick a position and stick with it.
People where fired? wow, thats.........not new. 10 of Clintons members were eithered fired or resigned. Thats usual with presidents. And what did we a get back from Clinton?

1. Blowjobs!
2. higher Taxes.

You stick to a position alright! The foot-in-mouth position!
 
My_name_is_not_Larry said:
I see you couldn't refute anything I said. your argumentation skills are....ehhhh ahhhhh, errrrr, good I guess-----since you know everything and nobody else matters.

Refute what? Your skewed version of history. Please read the entire thread, and you will see I have already addressed your little notion of self importance and the manner in which you decide who best at argumentation. Or debate, if this is what actually qualifies as debate here.

PSSSSStttt----Everyone knows that the plan didn't turn out the way they thought it would. Because if it had, there would have been 40,000 troops there in the summer of 04'.

Even the President and Karl Rove admitted the Mission Accomplished thing was a mistake---why can't you?
 
DiavoTheMiavo said:
Nice, I actually thought you could come up with something besides a one line quip.

Hey! Be proud of yourself! He gave your 3 paragraphs of manure more than it was worth.
 
My_name_is_not_Larry said:
People where fired? wow, thats.........not new. 10 of Clintons members were eithered fired or resigned. Thats usual with presidents. And what did we a get back from Clinton?

1. Blowjobs!
2. higher Taxes.

You stick to a position alright! The foot-in-mouth position!


See, Clinton did it.

And did you not just ask me who was Launched? I am curious, because I cannot understand why you would bring Clinton up? You asked me, I gave you 3 examples----and then you basically say "Clinton did it too".

Why didn't you just bring up the changes in Clinton's Cabinet at that time instead of even asking about GW? If it is not unusual, then why did you ask? Oh yeah, and was Clinton's changes occuring during a time of war? I mean unless they are incompetent (Which we know they were not), why would you switch up leadership during the middle of a war? Hell, a lot of people voted for GW because he campaigned on just that issue. Could it be that having differing opinions helped them out the door?

Could it be that they were right all along? You break the Silver Goblet, you will then own the Silver Goblet.
 
diavo said:
I am not going to get into semantics. Spin it anyway you want. I will give the Big Three only, but there were even retirments because of what was being witnessed (Zinni). The Big Three: Gen Shinseki (Yes he was Fired), Colin Powell (He wasn't asked back), and Anthony Principi (He too was not asked back). You want to be semantic, go ahead. All guys who had seen combat----go figure.

"semantics"?? "spin"?? What the hell are you talking about? I asked you a simple question: who are you referring to when you say people were fired and demonized. You toss out an allegation and you don't think anyone should ask you who or what you're talking about?

As far as being demonized and called sympathizers? You are kidding right? Again, that short term memory loss is a problem. People were never called America Haters and Crazy Left Wing Liberals on a par with the traitors like John Kerry or Jane Fonda.

Yeah, I am getting a bit long in the tooth and the memory isn't what it used to be. But I am not kidding. Again, you toss out a bunch of stuff and expect every reader to somehow know exactly what or to whom you are referring. Since you're not telling us, you're expecting us to divine who or what you mean or are talking about just how?
 
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DiavoTheMiavo said:
Refute what? Your skewed version of history. Please read the entire thread, and you will see I have already addressed your little notion of self importance and the manner in which you decide who best at argumentation. Or debate, if this is what actually qualifies as debate here.
Just because I know facts doesn't mean I have a skewed version of history. If your version of history means ignoring all the facts well, I hope my grandson doesn't have you as a history teacher.
PSSSSStttt----Everyone knows that the plan didn't turn out the way they thought it would. Because if it had, there would have been 40,000 troops there in the summer of 04'.
Unless you got evidence that Bush claimed he is a psychic, shut up.
Even the President and Karl Rove admitted the Mission Accomplished thing was a mistake---why can't you?
All the "mission accomplished" thing was was a ceremony to honor vets and soldiers in the war. The fact that title is used as a slogan is a mistake done by both sides. So I have nothing to admit as a mistake.
 
oldreliable67 said:
"semantics"?? "spin"?? What the hell are you talking about? I asked you a simple question: who are you referring to when you say people were fired and demonized. You toss out an allegation and you don't think anyone should ask you who or what you're talking about?



Yeah, I am getting a bit long in the tooth and the memory isn't what it used to be. But I am not kidding. Again, you toss out a bunch of stuff and expect every reader to somehow know exactly what or to whom you are referring. Since you're not telling us, you're expecting us to divine who or what you mean or are talking about just how?

Yes, I expect people to know about this stuff. It is all there for the taking. Common knowledge shouldn't be challenged, and then attacked when it is answered. That's like getting mad at me for my being upset that you won't accept the sky is blue because you lived inside your house you entire life and never saw it.
 
My_name_is_not_Larry said:
Just because I know facts doesn't mean I have a skewed version of history. If your version of history means ignoring all the facts well, I hope my grandson doesn't have you as a history teacher.

Unless you got evidence that Bush claimed he is a psychic, shut up.

All the "mission accomplished" thing was was a ceremony to honor vets and soldiers in the war. The fact that title is used as a slogan is a mistake done by both sides. So I have nothing to admit as a mistake.


Sure it was my Freind, and you thought exactly that. Yeah, and monkeys can fly out my butt. What were your facts that day Not Larry? You were probablly high fiving everyone for the return of the Lincoln huh? You were the only one, except for your Diehard Buddies, who expected this Iraq of 2006 to be like it is. Everyone else was celebrating the AHEM Return of the Lincoln, but you were pondering the crap that was yet to come.

Rewrite anyway you want it. A mistake by Both sides? What? Heard any good National Anthems lately?
 
DiavoTheMiavo said:
Yes, I expect people to know about this stuff. It is all there for the taking. Common knowledge shouldn't be challenged, and then attacked when it is answered. That's like getting mad at me for my being upset that you won't accept the sky is blue because you lived inside your house you entire life and never saw it.

Perhaps "common knowledge" for you and others who have have maintained and interest in the topic and/or researched/read about it. But, you may be surprised that not everyone has done that. Moreover, if one is going to enter into a debate or even just a discussion, it usually behooves one to define the parameters.

You are perhaps right that "common knowledge" shouldn't be attacked, but maybe one shouldn't make assumptions about what is or is not "common knowledge".

And where have I attacked you in this thread? Nowhere. Yet.
 
DiavoTheMiavo said:
See, Clinton did it.

And did you not just ask me who was Launched? I am curious, because I cannot understand why you would bring Clinton up? You asked me, I gave you 3 examples----and then you basically say "Clinton did it too".

Why didn't you just bring up the changes in Clinton's Cabinet at that time instead of even asking about GW? If it is not unusual, then why did you ask? Oh yeah, and was Clinton's changes occuring during a time of war? I mean unless they are incompetent (Which we know they were not), why would you switch up leadership during the middle of a war? Hell, a lot of people voted for GW because he campaigned on just that issue. Could it be that having differing opinions helped them out the door?

Could it be that they were right all along? You break the Silver Goblet, you will then own the Silver Goblet.
I brought up clinton as an example to discredit what you said about people being "fired from leadership". People get fired and replaced by the president, it happens, every president has done it. (clinton being the example). Now, I would like to ask that we quit talking about Clinton, I just used what he did as an example an that was more attention than he deserved anyway.

Now, make some better arguments so that I won't have to argue with your stupid arguments.
 

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