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What's Happening in this country?

ttwtt78640

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I couldn't agree more with your first statement. I claim it shouldn't be as well. However, isn't it a personal responsibility of Christians to help their brother? I am in completely in touch with the role of government. . .Not to be infused with religion to make political points. "Just because I feel good about giving away the earnings of others" . . . . . .Invalid assumption. I don't know of anyone who feels good about giving away their earnings, including some very, very, very rich people, worth hundreds of millions. . . . . . . . .

Then what business is it of the USCCB to either support or NOT support ANY polictical decision? They object PLENTY to being told what they MUST SPEND their own money on (birth control pills), yet freely call for others to do the same (aid to illegal aliens).
 

Daktoria

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The state doesn't belong in religion OR the arts ...

A community is just the State?

This thread is about this country, not this government.
 

ttwtt78640

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The state doesn't belong in religion OR the arts ...



I'm just talking about what happened in the book of acts ...

What I'm saying is that christian principles, is necessarily opposed to the capitalist philosophy.



It has nothing to do with the government ... christianity was not about state, infact Jesus SPECIFICALLY stayed out of politics (they tried to make him a king he refused, his kingdom was not of this world), however the principles of christianity were always communal, socialistic.



Not at all, faith is faith, once you start enforcing faith its not faith anymore.

I don't want ANYONE in government to dictate faith to me, my faith is my faith.

I want the legal systems and the political/economic framework to be only based on the common good with NO faith involved.

How is it COMMON GOOD to take from a worker to give to a non-worker, to expect Citizen A to not only pay for their own food, clothing and shelter but to ALSO help pay for the food, clothing and shelter of Citizen B?
 

DrM

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You mentioned Christian. Can you state the specific number of people Saint Peter converted during his legendary sermon? While you ponder on that, I'd like to point out that you just stated a hypocritical statement and then proceeded to imply you have distaste for hypocrites. As an authentic christian myself, I understand the fact that we as a people(christians) should naturally be governed by a government with a christian doctrine. Unless, of course, you would want to have laws enforced on yourself by people who don't have god in their hearts?
Why would I be concerned St. Peter's converted stats? There should be no room in government for religion, regardless of its roots. We escaped from England because of? . . . . No one I know wants to be ruled, but represented. We should not adopt a Christian or other religious doctrine to rule a country. Practice your religion and I'll practice mine. How equal would it be for a religion to rule the country and then I am obligated to practice in my home, indoctrinating my children the same? For religion to tell me how to vote is unconstitutional. This is not a theocracy. Remember reading about the crusades?

Unless, of course, you would want to have laws enforced on yourself by people who don't have god in their hearts? I don't have the capacity, mentally, to understand your idea. What if this country was Muslum and the country population was 20% Christian. You are a Christian. They will rule under their religious tenants. How would that fit? (PS. I'm not a Christian but that doesn't indicate I am not religious.) Take the opportunity to read Thomas Paine's Age of Reason.
 
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DrM

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What are you talking about? I am saying that if the church group wants to remain tax exempt that they must also refrain from taking POLITICAL positions. There is not ONE SHREAD of biblical teachings that says GOV'T should enforce charity, or income redistribution. It is this church group that wants it "both ways" to be separate (and tax exempt) as a religion AND to make gov't policy, implying that God favors a particular political policy. There is a VAST difference from freely giving to others and demanding taxation to do so.
Sorry, I misread. My apologies. I couldn't agree more!
 

Tigger

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You're correct. However, it really has to be one or the other. I'm not sure how it could be both. (I am not a Christian. However, I am familiar with the teachings and the preaching.) I am indicating that the claims made on the right, i.e. Christianity as a lynchpin to win elections is not ethical. The premise is not ethical.) We all understand that the right has adopted Christianity has been adopted as a vote getter.

I think you're severely overstating the case here. Yes, there is a block on the Right that sees Christianity and the unlying foundation of this nation and uses it as a political tool. However, I believe you overstate the case when you suggest that their entire philosophy is built on Judeo-Christian teachings.

Not all citizens are Christian but the right uses that leverage to gain votes. If not for the welfare of the nations, then who? Is your money so precious to you that you resent giving to others? If that's true, then you worship your possessions more than people. No problem with me but if you claim Christianity, it can't happen!

My money, time, energy, etc.... are precious enough to me that I resent being FORCED to give them to people whose lifestyle I completely disagree with. I see life as an investment; and I see most of the "needy" out there as being poor investment options. No, I grew up Christian but I would no longer want to have anything to do with that label, thank you very much.
 

DrM

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How is it COMMON GOOD to take from a worker to give to a non-worker, to expect Citizen A to not only pay for their own food, clothing and shelter but to ALSO help pay for the food, clothing and shelter of Citizen B?
Inhumane at best. Let 'em die but not a nickle from my pocket! Not my problem. I don't live in this country for this crap! God help you if you are ever in need. It's for sure no one else will.
 

RGacky3

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A community is just the State?

This thread is about this country, not this government.

... What is that supposed to mean?

How is it COMMON GOOD to take from a worker to give to a non-worker, to expect Citizen A to not only pay for their own food, clothing and shelter but to ALSO help pay for the food, clothing and shelter of Citizen B?

Thats not what I want.

in my opinion the best way to set up the economy is democratic, so that people out of work CAN get work.
 

John.NoseTip

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I'm a devout Agnostic so I can't really speak to what Christians think. I stopped believing when I was around eight years old so I don't know much about Christian doctrine either. However, I have spent my life in the buckle of the bible belt so I have observed Christians up close for quite a while now and based on those observations I think our government behaves in a very Christian way. I would sum up the Christian motto as "Praise The Lord And Pass the ammunition" which is also a fairly good expression of our government's behavior. Here's one example...

2012 Budget

583,386,000 For OSHA Funding Summary
1,407,483,000 For SEC Funding Summary
3,000,000,000 For Military Funding Of Israel Funding Summary

What could be Christian than work place safety and financial regulation having only two-thirds the importance of funding arms for Israel? Keep in mind the population of Israel is around 7.8 million so per capita it's much more important than two-thirds. "Praise Him"!
 

DrM

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Give of your own accord, not at the threat of force by those in power. The former is charity. The latter is theft, for which the penalty for fairulre to pay, is violence against the individual.
Actually I was referring more to "willingness" to help our brothers. This seems to be the missing link. The government threats, cohersions, etc. cannot enforce willingness. Maybe I'm incorrect here but from a number of the posts it's all about me. Are you suggesting that the government is more protective of it's citizens than others here?

Perhaps we have needs without respect to political party. Not all republicans are rich. Not all democrats are poor. It doesn't make sense. The poor republicans logically should be voting democrat and the rich democrats logically should be voting for republicans. Still us turkeys have all the answers. Why don't we hound the do nothing congress to do what they were elected to do, represent us instead of riching their own pockets and keep stiring the pot. Is this what this country is all about now? Guess one shoe really doesn't fit all. It has to go back to this government spending thing. It's pounded into us every day. Republicans hate the poor, democrats spend, spend, spend. Americans want the same thing. This is the media divide, reinforced by candidates. I find this whole line of hate, superficial logic pathetic and an insult to my intelligence!

At the same time when a republican gets sick they get the same healthcare as the democrats. Everyone is being scared into killing social security. They don't want this government program. Yet I have yet to speak with a single person who has returned their monthly check. Same thing, I got mine now you get yours! Funny how S.S. worked over the years. If it ain't broke. . . .

The political split in this country is a big joke to other first world countries. Media has contributed to splitting this nation in half, most of us operating on the brains of Rush Limbaugh and Ed Schultz. If they are so brilliant, why don't they run for office? No credentials, no brains but both are multi-millionaires, PAID BY US to listen to these wind bags without any balance in substance. We don't think for ourselves. We'll listen to them or look it up on the internet. Are we now the GREATEST GENERATION?

I am a veteran (VN). Like all sworn into the armed services, we sign a blank check to the US government of any amount up to and including our lives. Today I have doubts. Not because of this great country but because of the uncompromising attitudes of the ones in it separating, distributing poison. We're drinking the cool aid people.
 

James Cessna

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Ryan is one of the few people trying to take the deficit by the balls. We can do it now in an orderly fashion or be forced to do it like Greece down the road. It is our choice. Pay now, or pay much more down the road. It really is that simple.

It has nothing to do with anyone's religion or freedom. It has everything to do with economic realities and adapting to a changing world.

Thanks to Barack Obama and four years of his failed economic policies, government dependency jumped 8.1 percent in the past year, with the most assistance going toward housing, health and welfare, and retirement.

The federal government spent more taxpayer dollars than ever before in 2011 to subsidize Americans. The average individual who relies on Washington could receive benefits valued at $32,748, more than the nation’s average disposable personal income ($32,446).

This is "income re-distribution" on the part of Barack Obama and the liberal Democrats in Congress at its very worse. Why should anyone work today when you can make as much money by not working as you do by working?

At the same time, nearly half of the U.S. population (49.5 percent) does not pay any federal income taxes.

In the next 25 years, more than 77 million baby boomers will retire. They will begin collecting checks from Social Security, drawing benefits from Medicare, and relying on Medicaid for long-term care.

As of now, 70 percent of the federal government’s budget goes to individual assistance programs, up dramatically in just the past few years. However, research shows that private, community, and charitable aid helps individuals rise from their difficulties with better success than federal government handouts. Plus, local and private aid is often more effectively distributed.

Dependence on Government Highest in History
 
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ttwtt78640

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Inhumane at best. Let 'em die but not a nickle from my pocket! Not my problem. I don't live in this country for this crap! God help you if you are ever in need. It's for sure no one else will.

WRONG. My right to swing my arm freely stops where your nose begins. Your right to work and feed yourself does not include access to ANY of my paycheck. Charity will help those "in need" IFF they seek it, yet they may expect behavior changes to keep it comming. We have had 12% to 15% of the population CONSTANTLY "in need" of gov't assistance since the 1960s, during both times of boom and bust. It is not "inhumane" to expect WORK (even public service) in return for money.
 

James Cessna

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WRONG. My right to swing my arm freely stops where your nose begins. Your right to work and feed yourself does not include access to ANY of my paycheck. Charity will help those "in need" IFF they seek it, yet they may expect behavior changes to keep it comming.

We have had 12% to 15% of the population CONSTANTLY "in need" of gov't assistance since the 1960s, during both times of boom and bust. It is not "inhumane" to expect WORK (even public service) in return for money.

You are correct.

entitlement-spending-double-560.jpg


Entitlement Spending Will Nearly Double by 2050

Spending on Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and the Obamacare subsidies will soar as 78 million baby boomers retire and health care costs climb. Total spending on federal health care programs will more than double. Future generations will be left with an untenable debt burden.

PERCENTAGE OF GDP

... Moreover, before Obama there had never been a deficit anywhere near $1 trillion. The highest previously was $458 billion, or less than half a trillion, in 2008. The federal deficit for the last budget adopted by a Republican controlled Congress was $161 billion for fiscal year 2007. But the budget deficits for Obama’s four years were reported in Obama’s own 2013 budget as $1.413 trillion for 2009, $1.293 trillion for 2010, $1.3 trillion for 2011, and $1.327 trillion for 2012, four years in a row of deficits of $1.3 trillion or more, the highest in world history.

What Obama has ignored is the fact that spending on entitlement programs has steadily grown under his presidency. He has repeatedly failed to tackle the entitlement spending tsunami that will swamp the budget as their costs continue to increase at an alarming rate, doubling as a share of the economy within the next few decades.

The major entitlement programs—Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security—are the main drivers of future deficits, yet the President has failed to offer any solutions to reform them. He promptly ignored his own deficit commission’s proposals to address the spending and debt crises but proposed none of his own. In fact, Obamacare added a costly new entitlement that will only add to the long-term spending crisis. He pays lip service to the need for strengthening and preserving these programs, and then in the next breath turns to the topic of how earnestly the economy needs government “investments” elsewhere.

... Setting Obama's "Great Fiscal Restraint Record" Straight
 
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DrM

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WRONG. My right to swing my arm freely stops where your nose begins. Your right to work and feed yourself does not include access to ANY of my paycheck. Charity will help those "in need" IFF they seek it, yet they may expect behavior changes to keep it comming. We have had 12% to 15% of the population CONSTANTLY "in need" of gov't assistance since the 1960s, during both times of boom and bust. It is not "inhumane" to expect WORK (even public service) in return for money.

Got it. Nothing further needs to be discussed.
 
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