What's fair?

[MaggieD]

Okay, so many of you know my mom's boyfriend of 50 years -- John. Without going into details that ya'll may or may not know, here's the short version.

John moved in with mom 9 years ago. He's never paid rent or any part of the utilities. Sometimes, like when she bought a new washer/dryer, he'd chip in half. When he'd win at "the boat," he'd give mom money -- for which she thanked him profusely. "Isn't he wonderful???" Yeah, right.

So now mom's living with me. I don't think she'll ever be going home again. John is still living there. He said, "Maggie, I'll pay the utilities. Just let me know what they are." I plan on selling mom's house in the spring. I'll give John the option of buying it at a large discount . . . just because. But in the meantime, the utilities amount to $180-$275/month depending on the season. That includes grass cutting and snow shoveling.

My thought is that he should be paying her (senior-frozen) real estate taxes and insurance so that it costs mom nothing to let him live there for the time being. That would be, in addition to utilities, $150 a month.

Short version: Do you think that's fair?

 

[sangha]

Okay, so many of you know my mom's boyfriend of 50 years -- John. Without going into details that ya'll may or may not know, here's the short version.

John moved in with mom 9 years ago. He's never paid rent or any part of the utilities. Sometimes, like when she bought a new washer/dryer, he'd chip in half. When he'd win at "the boat," he'd give mom money -- for which she thanked him profusely. "Isn't he wonderful???" Yeah, right.

So now mom's living with me. I don't think she'll ever be going home again. John is still living there. He said, "Maggie, I'll pay the utilities. Just let me know what they are." I plan on selling mom's house in the spring. I'll give John the option of buying it at a large discount . . . just because. But in the meantime, the utilities amount to $180-$275/month depending on the season. That includes grass cutting and snow shoveling.

My thought is that he should be paying her (senior-frozen) real estate taxes and insurance so that it costs mom nothing to let him live there for the time being. That would be, in addition to utilities, $150 a month.

Short version: Do you think that's fair?

IMO?

You're a good person, Maggie. Whatever you think is fair, is fair, even if that means you selling the house now.

If he doesn't like it, **** him

 

[JC Callender]

Okay, so many of you know my mom's boyfriend of 50 years -- John. Without going into details that ya'll may or may not know, here's the short version.

John moved in with mom 9 years ago. He's never paid rent or any part of the utilities. Sometimes, like when she bought a new washer/dryer, he'd chip in half. When he'd win at "the boat," he'd give mom money -- for which she thanked him profusely. "Isn't he wonderful???" Yeah, right.

So now mom's living with me. I don't think she'll ever be going home again. John is still living there. He said, "Maggie, I'll pay the utilities. Just let me know what they are." I plan on selling mom's house in the spring. I'll give John the option of buying it at a large discount . . . just because. But in the meantime, the utilities amount to $180-$275/month depending on the season. That includes grass cutting and snow shoveling.

My thought is that he should be paying her (senior-frozen) real estate taxes and insurance so that it costs mom nothing to let him live there for the time being. That would be, in addition to utilities, $150 a month.

Short version: Do you think that's fair?

I think that sounds fair, it sounds much cheaper than anywhere else he could move.

 

[MaggieD]

IMO?

You're a good person, Maggie. Whatever you think is fair, is fair, even if that means you selling the house now.

If he doesn't like it, **** him

Aww, Sangha, thank you. That means a lot to me. (It's all hard...)

 

[sangha]

Aww, Sangha, thank you. That means a lot to me. (It's all hard...)

You're welcome

And I'll add that I think you should do whatever is easiest for you at this time. If you don't want the hassle of dealing with him right now, then let it slide. Otherwise, don't let it slide. (I'm assuming that the amount is not a critical issue here)

 

[KevinKohler]

What would you do if he was her husband?


How cogent is your mom? The real fly in the ointment is that she seems to think the world of this guy.

 

[sangha]

Just one more thing:

You probably should speak to lawyer. Since your mom's not there, and he is paying you a set monthly fee, it's possible that this may establish a tenant/landlord relationship and later on, the courts may not be so quick to put an elderly man with little to no income out. If that's the case, you might want to let him live there for free. At least for the time being.

 

[Lutherf]

Okay, so many of you know my mom's boyfriend of 50 years -- John. Without going into details that ya'll may or may not know, here's the short version.

John moved in with mom 9 years ago. He's never paid rent or any part of the utilities. Sometimes, like when she bought a new washer/dryer, he'd chip in half. When he'd win at "the boat," he'd give mom money -- for which she thanked him profusely. "Isn't he wonderful???" Yeah, right.

So now mom's living with me. I don't think she'll ever be going home again. John is still living there. He said, "Maggie, I'll pay the utilities. Just let me know what they are." I plan on selling mom's house in the spring. I'll give John the option of buying it at a large discount . . . just because. But in the meantime, the utilities amount to $180-$275/month depending on the season. That includes grass cutting and snow shoveling.

My thought is that he should be paying her (senior-frozen) real estate taxes and insurance so that it costs mom nothing to let him live there for the time being. That would be, in addition to utilities, $150 a month.

Short version: Do you think that's fair?

I think $450/mo is quite fair but I also think that having him sign up for Section 8 could get his portion of rent down to the $200 range and get you a tidy "catch up" to FMV of $750 or so.

 

[SBu]

Okay, so many of you know my mom's boyfriend of 50 years -- John. Without going into details that ya'll may or may not know, here's the short version.

John moved in with mom 9 years ago. He's never paid rent or any part of the utilities. Sometimes, like when she bought a new washer/dryer, he'd chip in half. When he'd win at "the boat," he'd give mom money -- for which she thanked him profusely. "Isn't he wonderful???" Yeah, right.

So now mom's living with me. I don't think she'll ever be going home again. John is still living there. He said, "Maggie, I'll pay the utilities. Just let me know what they are." I plan on selling mom's house in the spring. I'll give John the option of buying it at a large discount . . . just because. But in the meantime, the utilities amount to $180-$275/month depending on the season. That includes grass cutting and snow shoveling.

My thought is that he should be paying her (senior-frozen) real estate taxes and insurance so that it costs mom nothing to let him live there for the time being. That would be, in addition to utilities, $150 a month.

Short version: Do you think that's fair?

My mom has burned through a couple boyfriends over the last 10 years, one of whom she married and subsequently divorced after a few years, sadly. Most of them were jerks and she knew our opinion of them (which was they were free loading opportunists). If I had the power like you do now, I would nail their balls to the wall. You don't seem too fond of the guy. The only mitigating factor is your Mom's feelings. If nailing this guy to the wall would hurt your Mom, then you should take that into account. If not, fairness be damned.

 

[MaggieD]

I think $450/mo is quite fair but I also think that having him sign up for Section 8 could get his portion of rent down to the $200 range and get you a tidy "catch up" to FMV of $750 or so.

He's not eligible for Section 8. He's got $600K in the bank and control of his brother's $1.2 million.

My mom has burned through a couple boyfriends over the last 10 years, one of whom she married and subsequently divorced after a few years, sadly. Most of them were jerks and she knew our opinion of them (which was they were free loading opportunists). If I had the power like you do now, I would nail their balls to the wall. You don't seem too fond of the guy. The only mitigating factor is your Mom's feelings. If nailing this guy to the wall would hurt your Mom, then you should take that into account. If not, fairness be damned.

Oh, how I would love to do that. I'm NOT fond of the guy . . . but I wouldn't be human if I didn't have some feelings for him over the almost 50 years they've been together. He's a jerk. The only thing I know to say is, "It's complicated." You do "get it" though; and I'm so with you. Mom has dementia -- so whatever I tell her is what she thinks. It's sad, but true. (She's 86.)

 

[MaggieD]

What would you do if he was her husband?

How cogent is your mom? The real fly in the ointment is that she seems to think the world of this guy.

If he were her husband, I'd shoot myself. Ha! Seriously, though, if he were her husband, he'd have been paying his share of the bills instead of asking my mom for half the dogfood money when he went to the store. I actually do intend to offer his buying the house at a large discount. I've already mentioned that to him; and, in response, he said, "I'll NEVER buy that house!!! Your mother owes me all the money I've ever given her in the last nine years I've lived here." And, knowing mom has dementia, he adds, "She promised me that when I moved in." (He keeps a supposed list of all of it in his wallet. Showed it to me a while ago.)

He was dying when he moved in -- directly from a two-week hospital stay. Had he moved home with his dysfunctional brother and sister, he'd be dead now. Mom offered to help him get well; and he never left.

 

[SBu]

He's not eligible for Section 8. He's got $600K in the bank and control of his brother's $1.2 million.



Oh, how I would love to do that. I'm NOT fond of the guy . . . but I wouldn't be human if I didn't have some feelings for him over the almost 50 years they've been together. He's a jerk. The only thing I know to say is, "It's complicated." You do "get it" though; and I'm so with you. Mom has dementia -- so whatever I tell her is what she thinks. It's sad, but true. (She's 86.)

Tough situation, Maggie. I tend to get a little Tony Soprano with people like that. They depend on everyone's kindness and civility to account for their lack thereof. Good luck and I know you'll find the best decision.

 

[Lutherf]

He's not eligible for Section 8. He's got $600K in the bank and control of his brother's $1.2 million.

......right.....and you're concerned about $400 bucks a month being unfair?

 

[Tucker Case]

I agree with Sangha on all counts. Consult a lawyer about the risk of making him a tenant rather than a squatter, and you are a good person, Maggie.

 

[DiAnna]

Okay, so many of you know my mom's boyfriend of 50 years -- John. Without going into details that ya'll may or may not know, here's the short version.

John moved in with mom 9 years ago. He's never paid rent or any part of the utilities. Sometimes, like when she bought a new washer/dryer, he'd chip in half. When he'd win at "the boat," he'd give mom money -- for which she thanked him profusely. "Isn't he wonderful???" Yeah, right.

So now mom's living with me. I don't think she'll ever be going home again. John is still living there. He said, "Maggie, I'll pay the utilities. Just let me know what they are." I plan on selling mom's house in the spring. I'll give John the option of buying it at a large discount . . . just because. But in the meantime, the utilities amount to $180-$275/month depending on the season. That includes grass cutting and snow shoveling.

My thought is that he should be paying her (senior-frozen) real estate taxes and insurance so that it costs mom nothing to let him live there for the time being. That would be, in addition to utilities, $150 a month.

Short version: Do you think that's fair?

He's been mooching off her for 50 years. Short version: Yes, that's fair.

Edit: Upon reading sangha and Tucker's excellent advice, I agree you should talk to a lawyer before making any decisions.

 

[MaggieD]

Yes, I agree. The attorney advice is excellent. It's one thing to pay for his own utilities -- another to pay a penny more. I need the advice of an attorney. No matter how this plays out, it's not going to be pretty. Offer to rent it to him at fair market? He'll go bananas. Offer to sell it to him at a large discount or he moves? He'll go bananas. Just tell him to move? He'll go bananas. I'd put the house up right now if I didn't think I'd suffer the Wrath of Kahn.

Many years ago, when mom had seriously broken up with him, she ended up having to call the cops because he wouldn't leave her alone. After that, he came and told her, "If you don't take me back, I'll kill your daughter. She'll never see it coming." I'm not kidding. If you knew my mom, you'd know that was ALL he had to say. I know this sounds dramatic, but that's John. He's an 85-year-old asshole. That's different than he used to be, though. Because thirty years ago, he was a 55-year-old asshole.

Attorney, Maggie. Early next week.

 

[opendebate]

Yes, I agree. The attorney advice is excellent. It's one thing to pay for his own utilities -- another to pay a penny more. I need the advice of an attorney. No matter how this plays out, it's not going to be pretty. Offer to rent it to him at fair market? He'll go bananas. Offer to sell it to him at a large discount or he moves? He'll go bananas. Just tell him to move? He'll go bananas. I'd put the house up right now if I didn't think I'd suffer the Wrath of Kahn.

Many years ago, when mom had seriously broken up with him, she ended up having to call the cops because he wouldn't leave her alone. After that, he came and told her, "If you don't take me back, I'll kill your daughter. She'll never see it coming." I'm not kidding. If you knew my mom, you'd know that was ALL he had to say. I know this sounds dramatic, but that's John. He's an 85-year-old asshole. That's different than he used to be, though. Because thirty years ago, he was a 55-year-old asshole.

Attorney, Maggie. Early next week.

Hi Maggie. First of all, I so admire the way you look for and care for your mom. I have been there and know how hard it can be so hang in there. I agree with Sangha, as I often do, great advice. I would add that sometimes when facing situations like this what works for me is to prioritize the things that are most important to me. Like protect mom emotionally, protect myself emotionally, (meaning low stress) etc., minimize expenses etc. Then decide from there, based on these priorities, how to best serve what matters most to you.

Does he know where you live?

 

[Thom Paine]

I might suggest Guido's Residential Eviction, Pest Control and Sanitation Services. I think he has a branch office at Mahoney's Mortuary and Trans-Oceanic Shipping located near Wash Park on Garfield.



Keep smilin' MaggieD

Thom Paine

 

[DiAnna]

I might suggest Guido's Residential Eviction, Pest Control and Sanitation Services. I think he has a branch office at Mahoney's Mortuary and Trans-Oceanic Shipping located near Wash Park on Garfield.



Keep smilin' MaggieD

Thom Paine

I know of Guido's Testudines cousin, who conveniently has a relative here at DP. Quiet, discreet, deadly. Contact TurtleDude for details and disposable burn phone. :lol:

 

[MaggieD]

Hi Maggie. First of all, I so admire the way you look for and care for your mom. I have been there and know how hard it can be so hang in there. I agree with Sangha, as I often do, great advice. I would add that sometimes when facing situations like this what works for me is to prioritize the things that are most important to me. Like protect mom emotionally, protect myself emotionally, (meaning low stress) etc., minimize expenses etc. Then decide from there, based on these priorities, how to best serve what matters most to you.

Does he know where you live?

I like your idea of prioritizing. Having mom here, now that she's stable, isn't as emotionally draining as it was while she was a mess -- when I brought her home here. So that's good. John has always been a stressor in my life. Unless I wanted to distance myself from my mom? I had to find a way to deal with him. He's the nightmare boyfriend a teenager brings home to invade and destroy families. He hasn't managed that . . . but it's been a real challenge. Now, from mom's standpoint, nothing matters anymore except that she feels safe and loved. I've got that.

And yes, unfortunately, he knows where I live. He also knows I have a .38. I do think that the next time he delivers one of his veiled threats (which he occasionally does) I'm going to blow it up and get a TRO. *Shakes head* It's surreal.

I might suggest Guido's Residential Eviction, Pest Control and Sanitation Services. I think he has a branch office at Mahoney's Mortuary and Trans-Oceanic Shipping located near Wash Park on Garfield.



Keep smilin' MaggieD

Thom Paine

Haha! This sounds promising!! I needed that.

 

[Risky Thicket]

Okay, so many of you know my mom's boyfriend of 50 years -- John. Without going into details that ya'll may or may not know, here's the short version.

John moved in with mom 9 years ago. He's never paid rent or any part of the utilities. Sometimes, like when she bought a new washer/dryer, he'd chip in half. When he'd win at "the boat," he'd give mom money -- for which she thanked him profusely. "Isn't he wonderful???" Yeah, right.

So now mom's living with me. I don't think she'll ever be going home again. John is still living there. He said, "Maggie, I'll pay the utilities. Just let me know what they are." I plan on selling mom's house in the spring. I'll give John the option of buying it at a large discount . . . just because. But in the meantime, the utilities amount to $180-$275/month depending on the season. That includes grass cutting and snow shoveling.

My thought is that he should be paying her (senior-frozen) real estate taxes and insurance so that it costs mom nothing to let him live there for the time being. That would be, in addition to utilities, $150 a month.

Short version: Do you think that's fair?

More than fair. You have a kind heart, Mags.

 

[ChrisL]

Okay, so many of you know my mom's boyfriend of 50 years -- John. Without going into details that ya'll may or may not know, here's the short version.

John moved in with mom 9 years ago. He's never paid rent or any part of the utilities. Sometimes, like when she bought a new washer/dryer, he'd chip in half. When he'd win at "the boat," he'd give mom money -- for which she thanked him profusely. "Isn't he wonderful???" Yeah, right.

So now mom's living with me. I don't think she'll ever be going home again. John is still living there. He said, "Maggie, I'll pay the utilities. Just let me know what they are." I plan on selling mom's house in the spring. I'll give John the option of buying it at a large discount . . . just because. But in the meantime, the utilities amount to $180-$275/month depending on the season. That includes grass cutting and snow shoveling.

My thought is that he should be paying her (senior-frozen) real estate taxes and insurance so that it costs mom nothing to let him live there for the time being. That would be, in addition to utilities, $150 a month.

Short version: Do you think that's fair?

Sounds more than fair to me.

 

[opendebate]

I like your idea of prioritizing. Having mom here, now that she's stable, isn't as emotionally draining as it was while she was a mess -- when I brought her home here. So that's good. John has always been a stressor in my life. Unless I wanted to distance myself from my mom? I had to find a way to deal with him. He's the nightmare boyfriend a teenager brings home to invade and destroy families. He hasn't managed that . . . but it's been a real challenge. Now, from mom's standpoint, nothing matters anymore except that she feels safe and loved. I've got that.

And yes, unfortunately, he knows where I live. He also knows I have a .38. I do think that the next time he delivers one of his veiled threats (which he occasionally does) I'm going to blow it up and get a TRO. *Shakes head* It's surreal.

I realized after posting that (about if he knows where you live) that it was either a stupid question or wishful thinking. I guess he can't do a lot of damage at his age, or at least I hope not. I would mention his threats to the attorney though he may have some ideas.

Good luck with everything. Your mom is lucky she has you.

 

[joko104]

Obviously it matters if you truly think he is dangerous. Court orders don't stop bullets.

How's his health? Think he's going to live long? Do you NEED to sell the house? Is he damaging it? If you don't need to sell the house and he's not damaging it, I'd just leave it alone. If you NEED the $$ (or your Mom does), turn it over to a lawyer to take care of.

As for utilities while he's there?

I suggest you buy your way out of it. Tell him he needs to put the utilities into HIS name, BUT you'll put up the DEPOSIT and pay the existing bill. Make up some "credit" reason you need it out of your name or something. If he bites at that, then you're off the hook. It's between him and the utility company from then on (other than frozen pipes danger I suppose in winter if the power goes off - but he's a senior so that unlikely).

Whose name is the house in? Your's? Your Mom's?

The other thought is if it's your Mom's, and they've been together 50 YEARS, under your state's law's he might have a "palimony" claim, basically claiming he and your mother were, for all practical reasons, "married" - and therefore some community property rights come into play.

You may have a DIFFICULT time selling it because he's in it. And he might do MASSIVE damage if you do an eviction. Again, do not discount that he might really be dangerous.

I gather you're not a person who lives hand-to-mouth, though also aren't rich either. "Comfortable" economically? Consider your and your mother's safety first, not the $$ issues.

If you DO have to pursue legal actions, the one more likely making sense is a retraining/protective order for him to say away from you and your property. Again, talk to a lawyer. If Ill. allows recordings someone without his/her knowledge (Florida does NOT), record any threat he makes for evidence.

FORGET about fairness, Maggie, the real question here is PERSONAL SAFETY. As in YOUR personal physical safety. I suggest you make THAT your focus.

 

[Muhammed]

John is still living there. He said, "Maggie, I'll pay the utilities. Just let me know what they are."

Tell him the utilities are $0 and have them shut off.