• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Whatever you think of the "Ground Zero" mosque . . .

Harshaw

Filmmaker ● Lawyer ● Patriot
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
38,750
Reaction score
13,831
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
This has to be the dumbest thing said about it among the professional chatterers.

Thomas Friedman:

"Countries that choke themselves off from exposure to different cultures, faiths and ideas will never invent the next Google or a cancer cure, let alone export a musical or body of literature that would bring enjoyment to children everywhere."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/04/opinion/04friedman.html?_r=1
 

tacomancer

Big Scary Liberal
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
39,778
Reaction score
20,611
Location
Akron
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
While not totally true, his statement does have a lot of truth in it. Imagination is often fueled by the consideration of new ideas.
 

Harshaw

Filmmaker ● Lawyer ● Patriot
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
38,750
Reaction score
13,831
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Yeah, because opposition to the mosque was all about closing off exposure to different cultures.

Never mind that if the mosque was stopped from being built, we're still a country which DID invent Google, HAS made the most strides toward a cancer cure, and we've exported STACKS and STACKS of literature, music, and other culture which has indeed brought enjoyment to children everywhere. (Hell, even Palestinian TV employs Mickey Mouse ripoffs.)
 

tacomancer

Big Scary Liberal
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
39,778
Reaction score
20,611
Location
Akron
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Yeah, because opposition to the mosque was all about closing off exposure to different cultures.
What is the opposition to the NY mosque about? (actually I am curious because I have no opinion on this issue and don't really care either way).

Never mind that if the mosque was stopped from being built, we're still a country which DID invent Google, HAS made the most strides toward a cancer cure, and we've exported STACKS and STACKS of literature, music, and other culture which has indeed brought enjoyment to children everywhere. (Hell, even Palestinian TV employs Mickey Mouse ripoffs.)
The US in general has a very open culture, which is a great thing. However the context of the warning in the OP is that we should not change that. There is some very real hatred of Islam and Muslim culture in this country (not entirely unwarranted, I believe) and taken too far, a result of that kind of phobia against other cultures can result in stagnation. I don't think we are in much danger of it in this country, but the phenomenon does happen.
 

Harshaw

Filmmaker ● Lawyer ● Patriot
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
38,750
Reaction score
13,831
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
What is the opposition to the NY mosque about? (actually I am curious because I have no opinion on this issue and don't really care either way).
That's well-covered in lots of other threads.


The US in general has a very open culture, which is a great thing. However the context of the warning in the OP is that we should not change that.
And that's one of the reasons it's so stupid, because that's not what it was ever about.
 

RightinNYC

Girthless
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
25,894
Reaction score
12,484
Location
New York, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
This has to be the dumbest thing said about it among the professional chatterers.

Thomas Friedman:

"Countries that choke themselves off from exposure to different cultures, faiths and ideas will never invent the next Google or a cancer cure, let alone export a musical or body of literature that would bring enjoyment to children everywhere."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/04/opinion/04friedman.html?_r=1
Yea, because when I think of NYC, I think of a lack of exposure to different cultures.

I bet I interact with more people of different cultures in a week than Thomas Friedman does in a year of commuting between the lily-white Times offices and his 12,000 sqft house in the lily-white MD suburbs.

But I guess he has some experience with how different cultures can spur creativity:

His wife's family owns a shopping mall chain that bulldozed 2.1 million square feet of Hawaiian wilderness to build a new mall
The unique hawaiian culture of those forests helped them come up with the idea of placing the hot topic next to the theater to cash in on the Twilight craze.
 

tacomancer

Big Scary Liberal
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
39,778
Reaction score
20,611
Location
Akron
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
That's well-covered in lots of other threads.
I don't doubt it, but I haven't worked up enough care to read those threads. I was hoping to get an easy answer :mrgreen:

And that's one of the reasons it's so stupid, because that's not what it was ever about.
I am quite sure different people have different reasons. My assumption is that is addressing one aspect of the debate.
 

Harshaw

Filmmaker ● Lawyer ● Patriot
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
38,750
Reaction score
13,831
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
I am quite sure different people have different reasons. My assumption is that is addressing one aspect of the debate.
To my knowledge, NO ONE has cited a need or desire to close off exposure to other cultures, or even Islam specifically, as a reason for opposing the "Ground Zero" mosque.
 

RightinNYC

Girthless
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
25,894
Reaction score
12,484
Location
New York, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
I don't doubt it, but I haven't worked up enough care to read those threads. I was hoping to get an easy answer :mrgreen:
My impression is that most people find it to be an inappropriate placement due to its proximity to ground zero. Of those, some believe that they should not be permitted to build it there, while others believe that they're entitled to build it there if they wish, but that it is an unfortunate decision. On the other side, there are a substantial portion of people people who do not find the plan objectionable at all.
 

tacomancer

Big Scary Liberal
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
39,778
Reaction score
20,611
Location
Akron
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
To my knowledge, NO ONE has cited a need or desire to close off exposure to other cultures, or even Islam specifically, as a reason for opposing the "Ground Zero" mosque.
I doubt that they have. But many have expressed a belief that there is something wrong with Islam, muslim culture, whatever and its that desire to get rid of it has the effect of closing off exposure.
 

Ockham

Noblesse oblige
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
23,909
Reaction score
11,001
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
To my knowledge, NO ONE has cited a need or desire to close off exposure to other cultures, or even Islam specifically, as a reason for opposing the "Ground Zero" mosque.
Were the issue really about other cultures and diversity, the "mosque" would also house a Christian church, a Buddhist temple and a Jewish Synagogue. All with a singular objective of outreach and commonality and tolerance. Yet that's not what's happening.
 

Coronado

Voluntary Resignation
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
7,059
Reaction score
2,412
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Yea, because when I think of NYC, I think of a lack of exposure to different cultures.
In the limited time I've spent in Manhattan, I can't believe anyone would think NYC is anything but diverse. Hell, spend an hour on the subway and you'll see more cultures than you can count.

Maybe it takes an outsider to notice these things ... ?
 

Coronado

Voluntary Resignation
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
7,059
Reaction score
2,412
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
My impression is that most people find it to be an inappropriate placement due to its proximity to ground zero. Of those, some believe that they should not be permitted to build it there, while others believe that they're entitled to build it there if they wish, but that it is an unfortunate decision. On the other side, there are a substantial portion of people people who do not find the plan objectionable at all.
In my opinion, the placement is in extremely poor taste. It would be like the LDS placing a temple adjacent to the site of the Mountain Meadows Massacre.
 

Coronado

Voluntary Resignation
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
7,059
Reaction score
2,412
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Were the issue really about other cultures and diversity, the "mosque" would also house a Christian church, a Buddhist temple and a Jewish Synagogue. All with a singular objective of outreach and commonality and tolerance. Yet that's not what's happening.
Yeah, it's all about tolerance ...

 

Harshaw

Filmmaker ● Lawyer ● Patriot
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
38,750
Reaction score
13,831
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right

Coronado

Voluntary Resignation
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
7,059
Reaction score
2,412
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed

Geo Patric

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
3,671
Reaction score
1,057
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
it was not Islam that destroyed the towers. it was not american muslims that destroyed the towers.

the ADL, an organization that has battled religious bigorty of all sorts, including that against muslims has opposed the project on the basis that it would offend the family members of those that died, which does not sound unreasonable at first, if not in the opinion of many, sufficient to deny them the same rights and privileges that everyone else enjoys.

but folks that would be offended by the mosque ARE equating islam and the deaths of all those people... that equation is saying that american muslims are not any different than the terrorists that DID destroy the towers. permitting the mosque is a specific denial of that premise.

geo.
 
Top Bottom