• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

What would you consider this portion in regards to abortoin

Which of the two sides would you put this person?

  • I'm Pro-Choice and would probably say pro-life

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    22

Zyphlin

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
51,312
Reaction score
35,172
Location
NoMoAuchie
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Say you have an individual who holds the following view.

During the first trimester, abortion should be legal for any reason. However, after the first trimester it will be illegal save for instances where the woman's physical health is severely in danger OR in the case of rape and incest where an investigation provides reason to believe they were prevented from seeking the abortion earlier by the perpetrator (which essentially would require the occurence to be reported to the police or child services, and thus verifiable).

Would you refer to this person "Pro-Life" or "Pro-Choice?
 

MaggieD

Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
43,244
Reaction score
44,659
Location
Chicago Area
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
Say you have an individual who holds the following view.

During the first trimester, abortion should be legal for any reason. However, after the first trimester it will be illegal save for instances where the woman's physical health is severely in danger OR in the case of rape and incest where an investigation provides reason to believe they were prevented from seeking the abortion earlier by the perpetrator (which essentially would require the occurence to be reported to the police or child services, and thus verifiable).

Would you refer to this person "Pro-Life" or "Pro-Choice?
I'd call it Pro Choice. (That's pretty much my personal position, by the way. But at 20 weeks.)
 

Spriggs05

Anarcho Facist
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
1,428
Reaction score
854
Location
UK
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Say you have an individual who holds the following view.

During the first trimester, abortion should be legal for any reason. However, after the first trimester it will be illegal save for instances where the woman's physical health is severely in danger OR in the case of rape and incest where an investigation provides reason to believe they were prevented from seeking the abortion earlier by the perpetrator (which essentially would require the occurence to be reported to the police or child services, and thus verifiable).

Would you refer to this person "Pro-Life" or "Pro-Choice?
I'm not sure since it depends how long after the first trimester they are willing to tolerate abortion, if it is 12 weeks and 1 day , then pro life, if at more than 17 weeks, then pro choice. Boundary at about 13/14 weeks judging from the pro lifers on this forum. Personally I think 25 weeks legal or up until the point that it is recognisably human until 25 weeks.
 

Gipper

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
25,120
Reaction score
7,658
Location
Theoretical Physics Lab
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
I'm pro-choice and I'd call it pro-life, as I don't consider an embryo to be a human being. A fetus, however, I do.
 

OscarB63

Farts in Elevators
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
26,526
Reaction score
9,462
Location
Alabama
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Say you have an individual who holds the following view.

During the first trimester, abortion should be legal for any reason. However, after the first trimester it will be illegal save for instances where the woman's physical health is severely in danger OR in the case of rape and incest where an investigation provides reason to believe they were prevented from seeking the abortion earlier by the perpetrator (which essentially would require the occurence to be reported to the police or child services, and thus verifiable).

Would you refer to this person "Pro-Life" or "Pro-Choice?
I'm pro-life and I think that most people who are pro-life would call this pro-choice. I also think that most people who are pro-choice would consider the position to be pro-life.
 

sangha

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
67,218
Reaction score
28,523
Location
Lower Hudson Valley, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Say you have an individual who holds the following view.

During the first trimester, abortion should be legal for any reason. However, after the first trimester it will be illegal save for instances where the woman's physical health is severely in danger OR in the case of rape and incest where an investigation provides reason to believe they were prevented from seeking the abortion earlier by the perpetrator (which essentially would require the occurence to be reported to the police or child services, and thus verifiable).

Would you refer to this person "Pro-Life" or "Pro-Choice?
I would call them a confused Moral Fascist
 

jamesrage

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
34,498
Reaction score
16,290
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Say you have an individual who holds the following view.

During the first trimester, abortion should be legal for any reason. However, after the first trimester it will be illegal save for instances where the woman's physical health is severely in danger OR in the case of rape and incest where an investigation provides reason to believe they were prevented from seeking the abortion earlier by the perpetrator (which essentially would require the occurence to be reported to the police or child services, and thus verifiable).

Would you refer to this person "Pro-Life" or "Pro-Choice?

The definition of pro-life is opposition to legalized abortion.So that person is pro-choice.Now that person may not be as rabid abortionist as say someone who thinks abortion should be legal all the way until the baby pops out, but that person is still pro-choice
Pro-life | Define Pro-life at Dictionary.com
opposed to legalized abortion; right-to-life.

Pro-choice | Define Pro-choice at Dictionary.com
supporting or advocating legalized abortion
 

Ontologuy

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
6,325
Reaction score
1,797
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
The position appears to be a compromise between pro-choice and pro-life, likely stemming from a capitulation by pro-choice into dropping the more hard-line pro-choice stance of total adherence to Roe and Webster.

Thus it is neither pro-choice or pro-life, but merely movement between the two.
 

Jerry

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
51,124
Reaction score
15,258
Location
United States
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Say you have an individual who holds the following view.

During the first trimester, abortion should be legal for any reason. However, after the first trimester it will be illegal save for instances where the woman's physical health is severely in danger OR in the case of rape and incest where an investigation provides reason to believe they were prevented from seeking the abortion earlier by the perpetrator (which essentially would require the occurence to be reported to the police or child services, and thus verifiable).

Would you refer to this person "Pro-Life" or "Pro-Choice?
That's pro-choice.
 

Zyphlin

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
51,312
Reaction score
35,172
Location
NoMoAuchie
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
The definition of pro-life is opposition to legalized abortion.
So just so I understand you...you consider anyone who doesn't believe in complete illegalization of abortion to be pro-choice? So someone who believes it's okay only in cases of the mother's life is in danger, and that's it, would be "pro-choice" because they're open to legalized abortions in a specific fashion?
 

molten_dragon

Anti-Hypocrite
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,229
Reaction score
4,860
Location
Southeast Michigan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Say you have an individual who holds the following view.

During the first trimester, abortion should be legal for any reason. However, after the first trimester it will be illegal save for instances where the woman's physical health is severely in danger OR in the case of rape and incest where an investigation provides reason to believe they were prevented from seeking the abortion earlier by the perpetrator (which essentially would require the occurence to be reported to the police or child services, and thus verifiable).

Would you refer to this person "Pro-Life" or "Pro-Choice?
I'm pro-choice, and would also call that position pro-choice. It matches my own position fairly closely, though I'd push the window out to 20 weeks, and I'd add an exception after that if it was found that the fetus wasn't viable.
 

Jerry

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
51,124
Reaction score
15,258
Location
United States
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
So just so I understand you...you consider anyone who doesn't believe in complete illegalization of abortion to be pro-choice? So someone who believes it's okay only in cases of the mother's life is in danger, and that's it, would be "pro-choice" because they're open to legalized abortions in a specific fashion?
Yes. If you would allow an elective choice in any situation, you are pro-choice. Pro-life means it's only acceptable to kill the ZEF when it would be acceptable to kill a born person. You can't kill a 10 year old because they were conceived through rape, or are a hindrance to your career, or it's hard to pay their bills, so the pro-life view is you cannot abort for those reasons either.
 

sangha

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
67,218
Reaction score
28,523
Location
Lower Hudson Valley, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Yes. If you would allow an elective choice in any situation, you are pro-choice. Pro-life means it's only acceptable to kill the ZEF when it would be acceptable to kill a born person. You can't kill a 10 year old because they were conceived through rape, or are a hindrance to your career, or it's hard to pay their bills, so the pro-life view is you cannot abort for those reasons either.
I have to admit that is logically consistent. More consistent than thinking the first trimester should be the dividing line.
 

jamesrage

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
34,498
Reaction score
16,290
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
So just so I understand you...you consider anyone who doesn't believe in complete illegalization of abortion to be pro-choice? So someone who believes it's okay only in cases of the mother's life is in danger, and that's it, would be "pro-choice" because they're open to legalized abortions in a specific fashion?
I would argue that anyone who supports legalized on-demand-abortion is pro-choice,because most people who are pro-life oppose on-demand-abortion . So I wouldn't consider favoring abortion only to save the mother's life to be pro-choice assuming doctors have verified that carrying the child to 50% viabilty and that a vaginal or c-section birth will cost the mother her life.
 

Redress

Liberal Fascist For Life!
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
107,214
Reaction score
51,036
Location
Georgia
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Say you have an individual who holds the following view.

During the first trimester, abortion should be legal for any reason. However, after the first trimester it will be illegal save for instances where the woman's physical health is severely in danger OR in the case of rape and incest where an investigation provides reason to believe they were prevented from seeking the abortion earlier by the perpetrator (which essentially would require the occurence to be reported to the police or child services, and thus verifiable).

Would you refer to this person "Pro-Life" or "Pro-Choice?
I would call that person "me". It would generally fall under "pro-choice" since abortion on demand in the first trimester is generally close to the definition of "pro-choice".

And don't get me started on my hatred of the labels "pro-choice" and "pro-life"....
 

Redress

Liberal Fascist For Life!
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
107,214
Reaction score
51,036
Location
Georgia
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
The definition of pro-life is opposition to legalized abortion.So that person is pro-choice.Now that person may not be as rabid abortionist as say someone who thinks abortion should be legal all the way until the baby pops out, but that person is still pro-choice
Pro-life | Define Pro-life at Dictionary.com
opposed to legalized abortion; right-to-life.

Pro-choice | Define Pro-choice at Dictionary.com
supporting or advocating legalized abortion
Just to be clear, the definition of "pro-choice" is not "the opposite of pro-life".
 

jamesrage

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
34,498
Reaction score
16,290
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Just to be clear, the definition of "pro-choice" is not "the opposite of pro-life".
Pro-choice favors legalized on demand abortion.Pro-life side opposes legalized on-demand-abortion.So pro-choice is the opposite of pro-life.
 

Redress

Liberal Fascist For Life!
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
107,214
Reaction score
51,036
Location
Georgia
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Pro-choice favors legalized on demand abortion.Pro-life side opposes legalized on-demand-abortion.So pro-choice is the opposite of pro-life.
Which has nothing to do with what I said. You said that since "pro-life" opposed abortion on demand, this made it "pro-choice". Pro-choice is not defined by pro-life.
 

Jerry

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
51,124
Reaction score
15,258
Location
United States
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Which has nothing to do with what I said. You said that since "pro-life" opposed abortion on demand, this made it "pro-choice". Pro-choice is not defined by pro-life.
We know. No one said pro-choice was defined by pro-life.
 

Zyphlin

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
51,312
Reaction score
35,172
Location
NoMoAuchie
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I think the confusion comes into play in that James quoted the definitions, but then has been arguing something else.

The definitions he quoted put the deliniating line at whether or not someone agrees with legalized abortion.

His PERSONAL definition seems to change that to whether or not someone believes in "Abortion on demand" (which, he can correct me if I'm wrong, he seems to be defining as "any point in which abortoin can be undergone for any reason) or not is what differentiates the two. So pro-choice would be anyone who believes in "abortion on demand" in any fashion and pro-life would be anyone who believes in "no abortion on demand" in any fashion.

I think a bit of confusion came into play because he chose to quote dictionary definitions that don't fit his own definition
 

DiAnna

Hooter Babe
Dungeon Master
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 19, 2008
Messages
46,307
Reaction score
24,860
Location
Northern California
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Independent
It is clearly a pro-choice position, although I voted that I was unsure because the position allows such an unacceptably (to me) short timeframe, after which the woman's choice is definitely removed.
 

Phys251

1/20/2021: The healing begins
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
34,953
Reaction score
18,397
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
First of all, I hate the term "pro-life." I'm consider myself to be "pro-life," because I favor affordable neonatal health care, paid maternity leave, Head Start, affordable health care for impoverished children, and all sorts of other things that increase the probability of survival AFTER birth. And oh yeah, I'm staunchly pro-choice. I see zero conflict there--none.

Second, that is an EXCELLENT op. Of all the major social issues out there, abortion probably has the most diversity in terms of positions. What should a woman's rights be prior to conception? Prior to 12 weeks? Prior to 21? Prior to birth? And what exceptions to those rules would there be? Though labels can be useful, if ill-defined, they can pigeonhole people into the wrong category.
 

Jerry

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
51,124
Reaction score
15,258
Location
United States
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
First of all, I hate the term "pro-life." I'm consider myself to be "pro-life," because I favor affordable neonatal health care, paid maternity leave, Head Start, affordable health care for impoverished children, and all sorts of other things that increase the probability of survival AFTER birth. And oh yeah, I'm staunchly pro-choice. I see zero conflict there--none.
The terms "pro life" and "pro choice" only discribe a general position on abortion and do not discribe a position on any other issue.
 

Superfly

Not Quite The Same
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
36,820
Reaction score
23,061
Location
Tucson to Tucumcari, Tehachapi to Tonapah
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
I'm pro-life and said that I felt it would be pro-choice. I can appreciate the arguments of others, but I'm of the belief that life begins at conception, so any removal of the baby/fetus/zygote/whatever makes you feel better calling it, is abortion, in my opinion.
 

SmokeAndMirrors

DP Veteran
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
18,282
Reaction score
16,153
Location
RVA
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Other
Say you have an individual who holds the following view.

During the first trimester, abortion should be legal for any reason. However, after the first trimester it will be illegal save for instances where the woman's physical health is severely in danger OR in the case of rape and incest where an investigation provides reason to believe they were prevented from seeking the abortion earlier by the perpetrator (which essentially would require the occurence to be reported to the police or child services, and thus verifiable).

Would you refer to this person "Pro-Life" or "Pro-Choice?
I would consider them a mild pro-choicer, who is a bit naive about the reality of the speed at which are legal system works.

However, I would also say they don't have a true appreciation or sense of compassion for the heart of the issue, due to the fact that the particulars of the stance rely on judging and possibly even blaming the woman for being victimized and the trauma that can cause.

But to my mind, someone who's anti-abortion thinks elective abortion should be illegal, period.
 
Top Bottom