What would it take for you to change your ideology?

[vickylee]

I would change to an other special field!

 

[jallman]

As an individual, what would it take for you to change you philosophy to something else?

Would it be some new data, a new insight, or something else? What would it be?

Nothing. My idealogy is one that is flexible and tailored to the situation at hand. I have some core beliefs but I will not budge on but, for the most part, I take things on a case by case basis.

 

[ricksfolly]

My political ideology is based on my views of the world, so for my ideology to change, the world would have to change in a way that didn't support my current ideology.

Our political parties change, but not world politics. They just put on an act to get our money. So you're stuck with your current idealogy the way it is.

ricksfolly

 

[Goobieman]

As an individual, what would it take for you to change you philosophy to something else?

A lobotomy.

 

[Mach]

Experience. For a few years on this forum, I debated from the moderate-liberal perspective. That has changed to moderate-libertarian, sharing some space with conservative and liberal positions.

Weak arguments I found in the liberal arguments.
welfare, entitlements, government ownership, too much too fast in terms of regulation and impact on real lives/industry, "living constitution".

Strong arguments were:
Some portion of federal programs/services can be factored in to be economically productive, and to possibly be cost effective if tied to taxes.
Abortion rights, sporadic individual/civil rights issues.

Constant application of real world data from my own experience moved me down the path of testing and ultimately supporting a more libertarian position on issues, still mingling in some conservative issues not related to immigration/abortion/religion, and the occasional liberal position.

In my limited experience, a moderate libertarian position has a stronger ethical position, reasoned position, and is most in line with the broad tenants freedom, life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness. Very surface-level historic perspective also seems to point to the weakness of massive government, and to the explosion of prosperity that can result from an economically free populace.

I also know enough to understand that mass media arguments on these issues are easily countered. Deeper arguments that we find on forums like this, are more strongly supported than the mass media arguments, but are still typically way off from the underlying specifics on any one issue. The actual issues in some cases are so broad and complex that the accuracy of having a public vote, vs. a scentific inquiry, become similar. Public vote then becomes the more ethical position, even though both are flawed and simiarly innaccurate. Everything in moderation..centrism, becomes most practical.

One of the hardest things to get liberals to understand about libertarian positions is that not dicating many constraints on individuals at the federal level - does not imply that there would not be, and should be, such constraints at some other level (individual, cultural, state, community, corporate, organizational, or otherwise). Hardest thing to get some conservatives to understand is there is no magic in the world, and that their denial of discriminatory behavior has never really fooled anyone.

 

[Goshin]

As an individual, what would it take for you to change you philosophy to something else?

Would it be some new data, a new insight, or something else? What would it be?

Over the course of decades my political views have changed quite a lot.

I was raised to be socially conservative and fiscally moderate. In my early 20's I flirted with liberalism, but found her to be a flighty bitch whose grip on reality was a bit tenuous. :mrgreen:

In my later 20's I called myself a moderate, but I was drifting strongly towards fiscal conservatism.

I was 34 when I encountered someone who beat me over the head with Libertarianism until I finally began to "get it". In my late 30's I was a libertarian minarchist.

I became more than a little disillusioned with the Libertarian Party however. They held to a number of positions that seemed impractical and unworkable, and ran some of the worst candidates imaginable in the late 90's/early 00's.

So I arrived here a year ago, referring to myself as a libertarian-leaning conservative. That is, I tend to be libertarian-ish on many issues, but conservative on others. I am also strongly tempted by pragmatism at times. :mrgreen:

Over the past year I have changed some of my views a bit. I have ceased to oppose progressive taxation, as long as the "curve" and top-end are reasonable, and ceased to support single-rate plans or consumption tax, having been persuaded that such plans are probably not workable in the foreseeable future (at least not without dramatic budget cuts that ain't-a-gonna happen.)

That's why my lean says "independent". I have trouble fitting myself in those little boxes.

Since my views have changed a good bit over the years, it is entirely possible they could change to some degree again. My polar opposite would be a anti-war anti-military, anti-Israel, pro-samesexmarriage cum-ba-ya-singin' liberal who secretly despises gays, wants to keep pot illegal and return to Prohibition, anti-gun pro-welfare socialist, pro-police-state authoritarian, closet-racist god-hating atheist secular humanist who supports La Raza and Aztlan and open borders. :rofl

Can't see myself ever being that, so I think we can rule out a 180. :mrgreen:

 

[VanceMack]

Over the course of decades my political views have changed quite a lot.

I was raised to be socially conservative and fiscally moderate. In my early 20's I flirted with liberalism, but found her to be a flighty bitch whose grip on reality was a bit tenuous. :mrgreen:

In my later 20's I called myself a moderate, but I was drifting strongly towards fiscal conservatism.

I was 34 when I encountered someone who beat me over the head with Libertarianism until I finally began to "get it". In my late 30's I was a libertarian minarchist.

I became more than a little disillusioned with the Libertarian Party however. They held to a number of positions that seemed impractical and unworkable, and ran some of the worst candidates imaginable in the late 90's/early 00's.

So I arrived here a year ago, referring to myself as a libertarian-leaning conservative. That is, I tend to be libertarian-ish on many issues, but conservative on others. I am also strongly tempted by pragmatism at times. :mrgreen:

Over the past year I have changed some of my views a bit. I have ceased to oppose progressive taxation, as long as the "curve" and top-end are reasonable, and ceased to support single-rate plans or consumption tax, having been persuaded that such plans are probably not workable in the foreseeable future (at least not without dramatic budget cuts that ain't-a-gonna happen.)

That's why my lean says "independent". I have trouble fitting myself in those little boxes.

Since my views have changed a good bit over the years, it is entirely possible they could change to some degree again. My polar opposite would be a anti-war anti-military, anti-Israel, pro-samesexmarriage cum-ba-ya-singin' liberal who secretly despises gays, wants to keep pot illegal and return to Prohibition, anti-gun pro-welfare socialist, pro-police-state authoritarian, closet-racist god-hating atheist secular humanist who supports La Raza and Aztlan and open borders. :rofl

Can't see myself ever being that, so I think we can rule out a 360. :mrgreen:

Wouldnt a 360 put you right back where you started? (sorry...cant help myself...I'm married to an English professor...)

 

[Goshin]

Wouldnt a 360 put you right back where you started? (sorry...cant help myself...I'm married to an English professor...)

Oops. Brainfart. :3oops:

Corrected, gracias. :doh

 

[Mach]

And on this same topic.

Is there any statistical truth in the "Liberal when younger/student, libertarian/conservative as you get older and experience life/real world"?

 

[VanceMack]

And on this same topic.

Is there any statistical truth in the "Liberal when younger/student, libertarian/conservative as you get older and experience life/real world"?

I know of a lot of young aspiring doctors social workers and psychologists that came into the field as babes and changed...rather in a hurry...

 

[Cephus]

Is there any statistical truth in the "Liberal when younger/student, libertarian/conservative as you get older and experience life/real world"?

I have no idea, I started out very conservative and while I've gotten a little less stringent on some ideas, I'm still quite conservative, especially fiscally. I'd describe myself as a fiscal conservative and social moderate-leaning-conservative today.

I know several people who went from being far-right conservatives to far-left liberals pretty late in life too.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

And on this same topic.

Is there any statistical truth in the "Liberal when younger/student, libertarian/conservative as you get older and experience life/real world"?

In one of my college textbooks it gives a simple list - but it only covers Democrats for some reason.

But I don't have time to look up their sources and give a compilation that includes Republicans. . . I'll ahve to get to you later on that.

 

[samsmart]

As an individual, what would it take for you to change you philosophy to something else?

Would it be some new data, a new insight, or something else? What would it be?

It would take new data or a better reasoned argument or better analysis of the issue to get me to change my mind. Which I don't mind, because I think it's better to adapt one's philosophy with new knowledge than to cling to outdated information.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

And on this same topic.

Is there any statistical truth in the "Liberal when younger/student, libertarian/conservative as you get older and experience life/real world"?

Ok - I have to cook dinner but here is a quip line out of my textbook:
"Much research has shown that attending college had a big impact on their political attitudes, usually making them morel liberal"

"Increased schooling led to significant increases in voting and other political activity."

Age effects participation - but not political-leaning. Usually, the older people generally are the more interested in politics they become.

 

[samsmart]

Age effects participation - but not political-leaning. Usually, the older people generally are the more interested in politics they become.

Personally, I think that's because they start to focus less on things like getting laid and more start to feel entitled to tell people how to live their lives or finding ways how to tell those people to STFU.

 

[Goshin]

Personally, I think that's because they start to focus less on things like getting laid and more start to feel entitled to tell people how to live their lives or finding ways how to tell those people to STFU.

Or perhaps its because older people begin to worry about what kind of world their children and/or grandchildren are going to grow up in, and what legacy they are leaving behind for future generations, after they are gone.

 

[Redress]

Or perhaps its because older people begin to worry about what kind of world their children and/or grandchildren are going to grow up in, and what legacy they are leaving behind for future generations, after they are gone.

You described my reasons for being a liberal very well there.

 

[Goshin]

You described my reasons for being a liberal very well there.

And mine for being conservative, in a sorta-libertarian-ish way. :mrgreen:

 

[TurtleDude]

You described my reasons for being a liberal very well there.

you grow up and you calm down
you're working for the clampdown
You start wearing blue and brown
you're working for the clampdown

 

[WI Crippler]

I'm really waffling between my current ideology and fascism right now. Typically I have embraced the ideals of classic liberalism domestic policy, with some neo-con hawkish foreign policy.

Lately though I have had this itch to see our species begin to exit the earth and work on space colonization. Earth may be the cradle of humanity, but at some time we have to grow up. One reason fascism is appealing is that I believe that if applied properly, it would be a much more efficient method to get us working toward this goal. The ideals of libertarianism are so individualistic with an emphasis on government working on a small scale, that I don't believe that ideology can deliver the results I desire for our species. Modern liberalism is too tied up in trying to fix every preceived fault in society(real or imagined) that their ideology ends up getting humanity stuck on earth. It seems they would rather fund clean needle exchanges than a new rocket booster. Conservatism is too fractured and doesn't present a solid ideology anymore. If the right kind of conservatism came along, one that more closely mirrored classic liberalism and it embraced my goals of space colonization/exploration I would be able to get on board.

However, I've always feared the "all eggs in one basket" approach. Fascism would dictate we do just that with society. In the hands of the wrong person or people, all society can suffer and there is no non-violent way to remove those factions from power. All ideologies are suspect for corruption, since they are executed by imperfect people. I fear that there is no counter balancing force within a fascist society which is why I doubt I could ever embrace it.

 

[Simba]

As an individual, what would it take for you to change you philosophy to something else?

Would it be some new data, a new insight, or something else? What would it be?

A really good bush. I saw such a woman yesterday in line at the Kangaroo gas station.

Xena, I could have sworn.

 

[Orion]

I've changed my mind on things over the years.

What would it take for me to change my mind more?

Growth, experience, observation, and being proven wrong... all of which I am open to.

 

[Goshin]

I'm really waffling between my current ideology and fascism right now. Typically I have embraced the ideals of classic liberalism domestic policy, with some neo-con hawkish foreign policy.

Lately though I have had this itch to see our species begin to exit the earth and work on space colonization. Earth may be the cradle of humanity, but at some time we have to grow up. One reason fascism is appealing is that I believe that if applied properly, it would be a much more efficient method to get us working toward this goal. The ideals of libertarianism are so individualistic with an emphasis on government working on a small scale, that I don't believe that ideology can deliver the results I desire for our species. Modern liberalism is too tied up in trying to fix every preceived fault in society(real or imagined) that their ideology ends up getting humanity stuck on earth. It seems they would rather fund clean needle exchanges than a new rocket booster. Conservatism is too fractured and doesn't present a solid ideology anymore. If the right kind of conservatism came along, one that more closely mirrored classic liberalism and it embraced my goals of space colonization/exploration I would be able to get on board.

However, I've always feared the "all eggs in one basket" approach. Fascism would dictate we do just that with society. In the hands of the wrong person or people, all society can suffer and there is no non-violent way to remove those factions from power. All ideologies are suspect for corruption, since they are executed by imperfect people. I fear that there is no counter balancing force within a fascist society which is why I doubt I could ever embrace it.

Intresting post, thanks.

I told Korimyr once that I could only support fascism if I got to be the dictator... I couldn't trust anyone else to do it right. :mrgreen:

I suspect there are days that we all feel that way. A democratic republic is a messy haphazard way to get anything done... but in the long run it tends to beat all the competition.

 

[Gipper]

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with your average voter.

Churchill said that, and he was so right it's borderline scary.

 

[LaMidRighter]

i don't think i'd change my core ideology, the nuances of it are in a constant state of flux as i learn more, and hear different views, but my core beliefs are solid.

That's pretty much my take on it too. My goals are set in stone, however, the means to achieve those goals will change as I learn more.

This is where I fall as well. I share many beliefs with constitutionalists and libertarians and don't think they are too far off from each other. I firmly believe in federal limitations and states rights. However I also lean pretty hard left on many social issues when they pertain to an individual causing no immediate harm as it doesn't affect me. I live my life by "necessary and proper" and wish more would. At my core I don't think that will ever change.....however issue by issue I want to find the best answer possible and make smart decisions and this is where I can both be swayed and maybe even confuse those who may have had me put into a particular box.